Dui checkpoints: How to proceed when the gistapo ask for your paperz

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
And I'll bet you support mandatory insurance laws as well, the insurance industry has for decades. In the same way pharmaceutical companies have manipulated Federal law.

Our last 2 governors have been convicted of misappropriating tax dollars, one of them was secretary of state here...the department that rules the roads.

Now go run for office.. ya patsy bitch.
i sure do support mandatory insurance laws.

i'm not going to risk everything my wife and i own over $40 a month, and i don't trust that everyone will have the means to cover my medical bills if they roll over me with their minivan while they are texting on their phone.

another example where your right to drive without insurance is summarily trumped by my right to not go bankrupt because you caused an accident.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
i sure do support mandatory insurance laws.

i'm not going to risk everything my wife and i own over $40 a month, and i don't trust that everyone will have the means to cover my medical bills if they roll over me with their minivan while they are texting on their phone.

another example where your right to drive without insurance is summarily trumped by my right to not go bankrupt because you caused an accident.
I know, you are comfortable with your personal life/finances/future.

I haven't caused an accident in over 20 years, and I paid plenty of worthless premiums without any return while avoiding potential accidents caused by others.
Please do our country a favor, don't run for office.

This goes way beyond a measly insurance payment, but please...don't breath a word of this to yet another special interest group.
 

Cali chronic

Well-Known Member
Long Beach Calif they would have pulled you out of the car and stomped your head with their boots and after you are unconscious from Tazers they would pull out their 9 mm or 40 cal and shoot you ten times!

Simple: People ask because they do not know. If they know they would arrest you.

How to handle it

Pig: Have you had anything to drink tonight?

Tax paying Citizen: NO! I do not drink alcohol. Inhale while speaking and then shut up...The next one to speak loses!

Couple of camo tactics. Not smoking when pulled over- use eye drops when leaving a bar or consuming, spritz cologne in your car if you see red and blue in the rear view.

NO statement nothing to build a case on, no Prob cause. Have ID Reg and hands in plane sight. (in you visor is the best place) You will reduce alertness in Pig a couple of degrees.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I know, you are comfortable with your personal life/finances/future.

I haven't caused an accident in over 20 years, and I paid plenty of worthless premiums without any return while avoiding potential accidents caused by others.
Please do our country a favor, don't run for office.

This goes way beyond a measly insurance payment, but please...don't breath a word of this to yet another special interest group.
a lot of talk with absolutely no attempt to refute what i said about my right to not go bankrupt trumping your right to drive without insurance.

maybe make an attempt at least.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
a lot of talk with absolutely no attempt to refute what i said about my right to not go bankrupt trumping your right to drive without insurance.

maybe make an attempt at least.
You're trying to justify your views by cornering me with a hypothetical incident that will most likely never occur. That's what insurance is based upon.

I have no issue with mandatory insurance, it's only another special interest abuse among many.

Let me guess, you're an underwriter.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You're trying to justify your views by cornering me with a hypothetical incident that will most likely never occur. That's what insurance is based upon.

I have no issue with mandatory insurance, it's only another special interest abuse among many.

Let me guess, you're an underwriter.
although at one point in my life i did fancy the actuarial profession, i am no underwriter.

accidents are not hypothetical, nor is it the case that they will likely never occur. in fact, quite the opposite is true in each case. every year about 2-3 million people are injured or killed in a traffic accident. that is 1% of the population each and every year. over the course of many years, that means you are more likely to experience an accident at some point in your life than not.

and i'm not trying to corner you in any way. i am simply stating that your right to drive without insurance ends at my right to not be caused bankruptcy should an accident occur. you have to insure yourself because it is not my job or place to pay for the medical bills should you hit me.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
although at one point in my life i did fancy the actuarial profession, i am no underwriter.

accidents are not hypothetical, nor is it the case that they will likely never occur. in fact, quite the opposite is true in each case. every year about 2-3 million people are injured or killed in a traffic accident. that is 1% of the population each and every year. over the course of many years, that means you are more likely to experience an accident at some point in your life than not.

and i'm not trying to corner you in any way. i am simply stating that your right to drive without insurance ends at my right to not be caused bankruptcy should an accident occur. you have to insure yourself because it is not my job or place to pay for the medical bills should you hit me.
Well then, I paid insurance for 20 years, with not one accident. Did I ever receive a refund on all those premiums?...nope.

The fact you have dependents to be concerned with is your problem, I avoided that road. So, it's my responsibility to keep paying without another claim to re-coup my $$ for another 20 years?.

I don't think so.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
Before I moved to Colorado a couple months ago I lived in Minnesota. I lived there my whole life and they used to allow checkpoints, but don't anymore. Last year the county I lived in found a way around the law(kind of). Since statistics showed that someone driving a pickup truck after 10 p.m. had a greater chance of being drunk than someone driving a different type of vehicle, cops could pull over a pickup after 10 p.m. for no reason at all. Not a checkpoint, but even MORE random. They did it for a trial month and I don't know if they are still doing it.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Well then, I paid insurance for 20 years, with not one accident. Did I ever receive a refund on all those premiums?...nope.
that's not how insurance works, einstein.

leave it to me to argue about insurance with someone who has major apparent misconceptions about how insurance works.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
that's not how insurance works, einstein.

leave it to me to argue about insurance with someone who has major apparent misconceptions about how insurance works.
You got me there, I failed the test to become an agent in Florida for life, health, and variable annuities. And I am thankful I actually paid $$ to not pass.

It would have been a bad career move at the time.

Since I know very little about the insurance industry, please enlighten all of us on how underwriters have absolutely no control on rates.

And when you're done...feel free to offer something worthwhile on the original topic thread...b/c insurance is a side-issue.
 

InCognition

Active Member
Anyone who believe the state gives you privileges is a moron. drink your koolaid. pay your taxes, realize you are an owned slave. Its not my job to educate you on the matter. do your research.

Courts Rule Driving is a Right
The US Supreme Court, and other US courts have already ruled in the following cases that we all have the right to travel protected by the constitution:

“The constitutional right to travel from one State to another, and necessarily to use the highways and other instrumentalities of interstate commerce in doing so, occupies a position fundamental to the concept of our Federal Union.” -United States v. Guest, 383 US 475, 757, 86 S. Ct 1170 (1966)
So you have the exclusive right to use public property as irresponsibly as you wish, because you technically have a right of ownership over it, via your contributed taxes? The people on the property being endangered, have more of a right to deny an irresponsible user of that property than the irresponsible user has to use it. The irresponsible user endangering these people is essentially obligating others to use that property at a higher level of risk that may cost lives, if others decide to use that property as well.

Yes everyone has the right to use public property. However, another individual does not have a right to endanger others when the property they are conducting dangerous activity on is owned by a group of people, most of whom don't consent to being subject to higher levels of risk, while exercising their right to use their shared property in a proper, non-threatening manner.


“It is well established law that the highways of the state are public property; that their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain (profit) is special and extraordinary, which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit.” - Stevenson v. Binford, 287 U.S. 251, 77 L.Ed. 288
Yes, we understand highways of the state are public property. It's legally argued though, that residents of a state have shared ownership or rights to use the state's property via state taxes though. Your right to use another state's, state-tax funded highway as you see fit, doesn't exist according to this legal logic. If you're a resident of New York, you don't have any partial ownership in, or right to use a state highway in California.


“The right of interstate travel has repeatedly been recognized as a basic constitutional freedom.” - Memorial Hospital v. Maricopa County, 415 US 250, 254, 94 S. Ct. 1076, 1080 (1974)
Interstate travel via government highways, yes. State funded highways, no.


“The right to travel is a part of the right to liberty.” - Worther v. Herter, 270 F.2d. 905, 908 (D.C. Cir 1959)
Unless you're endangering everyone else in the process, who are also exercising their rights. At this point it's not a right anymore because one does not have the direct right to endanger others lives. This would be classified as a privilege, because if exploited, and thus causing direct harm to others, such a "right" would be revocable, which wouldn't make it a right to that individual anymore.


“There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of the exercise of consitutional rights.” - Sherar v. Cullen, 481 F. 948
Again, if one is endangering everyone else who is also exercising their constitutional rights, then yes a sanction or penalty can be imposed on one who is endangering others while exercising rights. Essentially if one's rights are impeding on another's ability to exercise rights safely, they can and always will be penalized for an improper exercising of rights.


“Every State law must conform in the first place to the Constitution of the United States, and then to the subordinate constitution of the particular state; if it infringes upon provisions of either, it is so far void.” - Houston v. Moore, 18 U.S. 1, 5 L.Ed. 19
Like Uncle Buck said, show us where in the Constitution the states are not conforming the to constitution, when it comes to DUI checkpoints? The 4th amendment mentions nothing regarding motor vehicles and their correlation to their use on public property.


“Void: Null; having no legal force or binding effect; unable, in law, to support the purpose for which it was intended.” - Hardison v. Gledhill, 72 Ga. App. 432, 33 S.E. 2d. 921, 924.
DUI checkpoints actually do have a supported purpose in law for which they are intended, and that would be to catch drunks.


“The right of interstate travel has repeatedly been recognized as a basic constitutional freedom.” Memorial Hospital v. Maricopa County, 415 U.S. 250, 254
Again, it's a right, but it becomes a privilege when you obligate others exercising their rights, to exercise their rights under another's choice-increased risk.

Other's rights to deny you your option of endangering their lives, supersedes the right of another who exercises a right while endangering everyone in the process.


Driver’s licensing, as a method of conveniently keeping track of people is also prohibited by the following court ruling:

“ ...pure administrative convenience, standing alone, is an insufficient basis for an enactment which restricts the right to travel.” - Costa v. Bluegrass Turf Service, Inc. 406 F. Supp. 1007 (B.D. Ken. 1975)

The State of Maine does appear to be complying with the Supreme Court rulings, because it does not require human beings - the only entities who can have natural (granted by God) rights - to be licensed in order to travel, only businesses who use the road for profit or gain, which the Supreme court has ruled is O-K.
The State of Maine also allows any vehicle may be operated on a public roadway...” at 29-A §102.
So anyone of any age, disability, or impairment should have the right to operate a motor vehicle of any condition, quality, size, or material because it's their right to travel as they see fit? That is what your implying, and it's beyond ignorant.



All said and done, don't take segments of this argument and run with it, applying it to other facets of the constitution.

I'm strongly for guns, and if you applied this argument to gun control it would make me look hypocritical, but it's really is not applicable to gun control on the following basis:

An individual's right to defend their life supersedes another's opinion that one cannot defend their life, under the concern it may cost an innocent individual their life.


In relation to DUI offenders, they are not protecting their life or liberty in any manner, they are simply causing harm and impeding on people's liberties by doing so.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You got me there, I failed the test to become an agent in Florida for life, health, and variable annuities. And I am thankful I actually paid $$ to not pass.

It would have been a bad career move at the time.

Since I know very little about the insurance industry, please enlighten all of us on how underwriters have absolutely no control on rates.

And when you're done...feel free to offer something worthwhile on the original topic thread...b/c insurance is a side-issue.
i already posted about the OP. dui checkpoints are constitutional if done right. perhaps go back and read first.

underwriters do not control rates. they use data from the real world (the true thing that drives rates) and use actuarial science to determine exactly how much to charge to break even. then, other people decide how much to charge based on how much profit they want to make and many, many other factors.

i was simply mocking how you expect to get your premiums back if you don't get into an accident. that is an insane understanding of insurance in general.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
i already posted about the OP. dui checkpoints are constitutional if done right. perhaps go back and read first.

underwriters do not control rates. they use data from the real world (the true thing that drives rates) and use actuarial science to determine exactly how much to charge to break even. then, other people decide how much to charge based on how much profit they want to make and many, many other factors.

i was simply mocking how you expect to get your premiums back if you don't get into an accident. that is an insane understanding of insurance in general.
Actuaries crunch numbers, underwriters use them...that's how it works.

Meanwhile, I have almost 100 case laws sitting here to back-up driving is a right.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Actuaries crunch numbers, underwriters use them...that's how it works.

Meanwhile, I have almost 100 case laws sitting here to back-up driving is a right.
do they rely on some of the same distinctions that canna was making, such as "my car is not a motor vehicle" and "i am not driving, i am personally traveling"?

if so, let me just LOl in advance.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
do they rely on some of the same distinctions that canna was making, such as "my car is not a motor vehicle" and "i am not driving, i am personally traveling"?

if so, let me just LOl in advance.
And you don't work for the insurance industry...

You only know what an underwriter or an actuary is b/c I led you.

It was a bad example for me to have even mentioned insurance...as it has no relevancy to the topic at hand. Insurance is simply a by=product of the system.
 

InCognition

Active Member
Well then, I paid insurance for 20 years, with not one accident. Did I ever receive a refund on all those premiums?...nope.

The fact you have dependents to be concerned with is your problem, I avoided that road. So, it's my responsibility to keep paying without another claim to re-coup my $$ for another 20 years?.

I don't think so.
You could hit someone tomorrow and put them into life support for 1 year which would use up everything and beyond that of which you've payed into insurance for 20 years. This is why there is auto insurance because the way another person conducts themselves can result in the financial loss of another.

I see you mentioning mandated health insurance as some type of comparison as well. Well I would be against that because in the same sense, the way another person conducts their themselves (health) can result in the financial loss of another. Meaning that if Billy Bob slams down big macs all day, I have to pay a premium for his lack of health. Him slamming big macs all day has no bearing on my personal well being though, so why should it have a bearing on my pocket? Auto insurance is exactly the opposite.

They are completely different subjects and can hardly be compared.
 

InCognition

Active Member
driving is a right. no one should have to take a test to determine if their vision is suitable for driving, or if they are even mentally competent to operate an automobile. that shit is for pussies!

i want to share the road with anyone who THINKS they are able to drive, because, ya know, it is their right. mental retardation be damned!

in case any of the mentally-retarded people on this thread think i am serious, let me assure you i am not. i am just being facetious.

driving is not a right. rights end where they interfere with other rights. my right to swing my fist ends at your face. your "right to drive" an automobile ends where it may cause a hazard to my right not to be killed in car accident by a blind or retarded driver or someone operating an unsafe automobile.

to determine who these people are, there is a licensing agency established which has to be funded.

that's why you have to pay to get a license and register your vehicle, not because of some retarded "time is money" argument that is composed of more hypotheticals than previously imaginable.
Even though I don't agree with Buck sometimes, he is exactly correct on this.

This argument destroys the opposition's logic.
 

InCognition

Active Member
do they rely on some of the same distinctions that canna was making, such as "my car is not a motor vehicle" and "i am not driving, i am personally traveling"?

if so, let me just LOl in advance.
As canna gets hauled to jail, higher than a blimp on super bowl Sunday... "But officer, never mind the syringe in my arm loaded up with smack, and the bottle of jack I was just drinking... I'm not driving, I'm just personally traveling. This is my right officer. I beg you don't take me to jail, I'm only exercising my rights of personal travel."

"That little girl back there... yea never mind her officer, it's her fault she was in my way. She was exercising her rights, at her own risk, just like me officer."
 

WIGGIM

Active Member
inCo I agree with most of what you said, awesome Job



Not a huge fan of the states gun laws but that isn't up for dicussion lol
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
You could hit someone tomorrow and put them into life support for 1 year which would use up everything and beyond that of which you've payed into insurance for 20 years. This is why there is auto insurance because the way another person conducts themselves can result in the financial loss of another.

I see you mentioning mandated health insurance as some type of comparison as well. Well I would be against that because in the same sense, the way another person conducts their themselves (health) can result in the financial loss of another. Meaning that if Billy Bob slams down big macs all day, I have to pay a premium for his lack of health. Him slamming big macs all day has no bearing on my personal well being though, so why should it have a bearing on my pocket? Auto insurance is exactly the opposite.

They are completely different subjects and can hardly be compared.
I never mentioned mandated health insurance, kindly re-read.

As for the remainder, go ahead and pay in. As I have mentioned, insurance is a small portion of the issue. I'm done here.

Time to get high and watch a paid-for movie.
 
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