Back in the Closet... a 400 watt grow inside my closet, inside my DR60

overTHEman

Active Member
Helga is back.... The thing about Helga is she is going to have some huge fucking colas and they are going to need support.

I have a few rust spots that I can see and one sick spot on a leaf. I doubt that it is from over feeding but these spots didnt show up until i started feeding them the GO.

^what do u think about that^^^

also I am going to start document one of these freak buds. i have 4 on one plant and 1 on another.
Maybe some stakes for helga? She's too much of a beauty to cut.

The polyploids rock, it will be fun to watch these flower. I'm interested to know if their resin production will differ from the regular buds, or if they will smoke any different. Did you get a clone of the plant? Would it be possible to reveg her to preserve the mutation??

As for the rust spots...

WARNING - (You're about to embark on a serious OrganiRant. I apologize for the length but there's no quick answer to the question of bottled organics.)

Bottled organic nutes can be tricky as they are a bit of a contradiction. In organic gardening, the soil's microbiology reacts to the plant's needs and provides nutrition through the carbon exchange from the soil food web. For these purposes, "organics" can be qualified into two categories: requiring the presence of oxygen and requiring the absence of oxygen, aerobic and anaerobic. Humans, flies, worms, and plants are all examples of aerobic organisms. Microbiology can also be classified as aerobic or anaerobic; mychorrizal fungi and trichoderma are two examples of aerobic micro-organisms.

Anaerobic biology is the organic gardener's worst enemy (minus bokashi), surpassed only by salts. Anaerobic bacteria exist only in spaces that are free of oxygen and full of nutrition; these organisms are the ones that make trash dumps smell like trash dumps. Think about old food (bananas, apples, chicken) wrapped in plastic, left in the sun. As far as salts, we're talking about chemical salts; not just table salt. Any form of nutrition that is not organic will qualify as a "salt". Think about that chicken again, this time cover it in table salt before you throw it out. The moisture will be extracted, leaving a parched dry chicken and salmonella sauce at the bottom of the trash bag.

So this raises the question: how do nute companies bottle organic liquid nutrition and preserve the aerobic activity?

One answer from two perspectives: they don't.
1. They serve the public with expired microbiology that long since bottling has gone anaerobic.
2. The "nutrition" is stabilized with chemical salts and the microbiology is decimated.

There are a few options available to the organic gardener who already owns bottled organic nutes.

The best way to handle organic bottled nutes is to use them to make AACT. If the biology has gone bad, the oxygenated water will remove anaerobic activity and at least provide a healthy environment for possible, though unlikely, aerobic bacteria. If the nutrition is stabilized with salts, the likelihood of restoring a healthy aerobic food web is very small. Use these in AACT to remove any anaerobic activity and get at least one demon off your back. Finally is my personal favorite; throw them out and get dry nutes. These make high quality teas and can be applied directly to the soil as a nutrient mix or topdressing.

I'm not bashing GO products - Alaskan Ancient Forest Humus, for example, is one of the best products on the organic herbiculture market. It's loaded with a diverse microbiology and its woody contents support heavy mychorrizal growth. Myco cakes made of this stuff look like big flat cottonballs when they're all finished. I have used this in my garden for some time and will continue to do so as long as it's available, provided I don't get better at vermicomposting. ;)


When you boil it all down; if the GO line is used to make AACT, the plants will stand a much better chance at being able to process what they're fed.

Hope this helps.
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
big ups to growjahsgift on this one, but tell me if u see anything wrong with this and instead of using the go I have now. Can I use the bio weed as the kelp in this recipe?


With vegan or Organics in general I've read it's debatable whether a flush really does anything at the end anyway guano residues are very hard to leach out of a soil and with the way the soil-food-nutrient web works the flush would just be releasing more nutes into your medium via slow release N in blood meal and whatnot. As for entirely vegan it's all plant based nutrients so their is no residues to flush out. A compost tea is water + compost + food bubbled with an airstone to release the bacteria and Protozoa trapped inside cysts within the compost. It's a good supercharge for your soil and will aid in the breakdown and hopefully total consumption of all the food you put in your containers as well as giving the myco lots to eat. Which will in turn give your plants the food they need. Brewing a tea just separates the bacteria and Protozoa from the compost and starts the multiplication process. A simple tea recipe is here
Easy tea

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

Dilute to 20:1
Apply as a soil drench and foliar spray

My personal advice and method will be to start with subcools supersoil and watch how your plants react to his mix done the way he says. If you lack in anything you can adjust your amendments midcyle or use a bottled nutes to make up for any defs. When you learn what your strain likes you'll be able to adjust your soil mix accordingly and work from there.

Big ups to Matt Rize which is where 90% of my Veganic knowledge has come from you should check his thread out it's a long read but lots of great info peace for now and sorry bout the long ass post
Last edited by GrowJahsGift; 12-15-2011 at 06:44 AM.


 

overTHEman

Active Member
big ups to growjahsgift on this one, but tell me if u see anything wrong with this and instead of using the go I have now. Can I use the bio weed as the kelp in this recipe?


With vegan or Organics in general I've read it's debatable whether a flush really does anything at the end anyway guano residues are very hard to leach out of a soil and with the way the soil-food-nutrient web works the flush would just be releasing more nutes into your medium via slow release N in blood meal and whatnot. As for entirely vegan it's all plant based nutrients so their is no residues to flush out. A compost tea is water + compost + food bubbled with an airstone to release the bacteria and Protozoa trapped inside cysts within the compost. It's a good supercharge for your soil and will aid in the breakdown and hopefully total consumption of all the food you put in your containers as well as giving the myco lots to eat. Which will in turn give your plants the food they need. Brewing a tea just separates the bacteria and Protozoa from the compost and starts the multiplication process. A simple tea recipe is here
Easy tea

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

Dilute to 20:1
Apply as a soil drench and foliar spray

My personal advice and method will be to start with subcools supersoil and watch how your plants react to his mix done the way he says. If you lack in anything you can adjust your amendments midcyle or use a bottled nutes to make up for any defs. When you learn what your strain likes you'll be able to adjust your soil mix accordingly and work from there.

Big ups to Matt Rize which is where 90% of my Veganic knowledge has come from you should check his thread out it's a long read but lots of great info peace for now and sorry bout the long ass post
Last edited by GrowJahsGift; 12-15-2011 at 06:44 AM.


Both GJG and MattRize have much more influence here than I do and you would be wise to follow their advice. Much of their information comes from Teaming With Microbes and similar texts.

The important thing to remember with organics is that the plant is in control. The soil's microbes feed on and respond to substances released from the plant's roots, called "exuades". These exuades are also the microbes' map to determine which nutrients to provide to the plant. In organics, the tender of the garden is not to feed-nutrients-to-the-plant but instead, provide adequate microbiology to react to the plant's needs. Microbes live off of exuades and plants live off microbiology. This also adresses the "flushing organics" non-issue.

Watering with compost tea of EWC and molasses IS feeding the plant, in a roundabout sort of way.
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
well I wonder if the soil I have not will have enough juice to get me through or if I should order something. I have always questioned GO and now I have decided to change my growing a little. The question now is, what should i do for my plants over the next few weeks? I have been looking into some of the happy frog dry ferts? or can i get away with the GO? why do i still wanna use the GO?

let me get this right... so I want to "somehow" create an active soil environment for my plants to live. inside of that environment microbes and stuff will bread and create stuff for my plant to essentially take up and turn into what it needs. then the plant shits and the microbes eat the plants poo. kinda like they give off O2 and I breathe out co2 its a mutual thing. but inside of soil i also have to keep the environment happy and that is what tea is for?

creating the environment is the next question? lucky enough there has been a good sounding soil recipe recommended to me soooooooo

if i create the soil, then i water with tea, i will have happy plants in a happy environment and finally get out of the hydro store mentality.

if this is the case then RIU wow. if not then clear it up...

and @ overTHEman, thank you for the help and support
 

overTHEman

Active Member
Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch won two Nobel prizes for their creation of ammoniacal nitrogen (ammonium nitrate) and urea through chemical synthesis. Ironically, their work contributed to incidents like the Dust Bowl and Chile's Nitrate Crisis... Hydrostores and nute companies like miracle grow, advanced nutrients, General Hydroponics, etc. are also a result of their work. A return to nature is most sustainable when conditions do not prohibit the use of soil... +rep for your anti-hydrostore comment if I could.

You've got it right with the soil mixture; the pesants are happy to get their needs met while the king's getting off watching them eat his shit.

As for the GO line, it will definitely get you through this grow. Take 3/4 of the recommended dosage of GO product and add it to the corresponding volume of water, sink an airline tube to the bottom and bubble for 24hrs. This will destroy anaerobic activity and promote a stable environment for the good guys, the aerobic microbes.


For further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer#Inorganic_fertilizer_.28synthetic_fertilizer.29
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53792 (SICK organic thread)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620 (Tea thread)
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
I am filled with hate....

In the beginning of my grow I gave my girls a little juice> purple stems.

I only gave them water until a few days ago I started giving them a little more juice > purple stems.

I will never touch General Organics again. I plan to send the package back to General Hydroponics with dead fish inside of it, I douibt it but I really hate them right now.

I have concluded that whenever I feed my plants General Organics, the stems turn purple.

Day who fucking cares they are not ready> 2.5ml of bioweed, and biothrive bud boost-5ml of the biothrive bloom, and I won't do that again!


Now I need some help. here we go

Help> My plants are in the third week of flower and have survived with tap water and a mix of Fox Farm Ocean Forest and Light Warrior. I need a solid method to assist my plants for the rest of their journey. What ever the advice, please treat me like a baby retard, I am truly just getting my dick wet. It could even be the case that they are lacking nutrients, but the two plants I watered today are the ones showing more signifigant purple stems than the other plants that had been watered with just water, but they have all ben getting alittle juice here and there. In a previous grow I experienced what I considered problems. I used General Organics and my plants didnt finish the way I wanted them too, let alone hit week 4,5,6, or 7 the way I wanted too. What I mean by finish is the extreme lack of lushness in the leaves and the actual resin production on the leaves close to the buds. The buds were amazing, but I feel like the plants themselves could have been happier.



Pics are the purple stem i have now

Also pics from last harvest. they looked the best in the last 2 weeks when i just started feeding them water now that i think about it. one plant fell when i was pulling them out for the pic so i just cut its top and hung it up. you can tell which one. all that was from a DR60 by the way.......
 

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johnyutah

Well-Known Member
And if anyone is wondering the 4inch fan on the filter doesn't work....... just a waste energy trying to save energy.
 

overTHEman

Active Member
I am filled with hate....

In the beginning of my grow I gave my girls a little juice> purple stems.

I need a solid method to assist my plants for the rest of their journey. What ever the advice, please treat me like a baby retard.
Ha, don't stress jutah. By the look of those pics, you're growing some serious dank.

FF soils are nute charged and are decent for microbiology, it's likely possible to finish out this grow on water + molasses. If the girls substantial time left, there could be benefit from Compost Tea.

Good luck!
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
what type of molasses? and i have a question about the tea> at the end it says dilute 20:1 does that mean i bubble the 1 gallon mix and then i dilute it. how long do i bubble? I barely use 2 gallons to water my plants sooo mixing up 20 gallons of brew would last a long time. thats 4, 5 gallon buckets. do u need to use it immediately? or can you store it? CAn I buy molasses from grocery store?
 

overTHEman

Active Member
what type of molasses? and i have a question about the tea> at the end it says dilute 20:1 does that mean i bubble the 1 gallon mix and then i dilute it. how long do i bubble? I barely use 2 gallons to water my plants sooo mixing up 20 gallons of brew would last a long time. thats 4, 5 gallon buckets. do u need to use it immediately? or can you store it? CAn I buy molasses from grocery store?
Look for "unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses" any grocery store should have it. The really good stuff often comes as livestock feed, you can buy it by the gallon!

The biggest thing about teas is timing, different brewing times produce different microbes. Plan in advance so that the correct microbes are utilized. Second, it has NO shelf life - ZERO. Once the air pump is unplugged, use it. Microbiology will start degrading immediately after disconnect. Finally, keep it simple. EWC (Ancient Forest Humus if you can get it) + Molasses + water + air, that's all. Don't put Espoma/Happy Frog nutes in this. The idea is to brew biology, not nutrition.

As far as dilution goes, Teaming With Microbes points out that a 5 gallon bucket of compost tea will successfully treat AN ACHRE of lush veggies/flowers when diluted 1:20 with water. That's where the dilution ratio comes in. However, as long as fertilizers (espoma/happy frog) haven't been added, you can apply the tea at any concentration without worry.

I brew tea 1.5 Liters at a time; 1tsp molasses and 2tsp EWC, 24hr brew for bacteria, 48 for protozoa, 72 for nematodes (loose timetable). Apply directly to the soil, undiluted.

Hope this helps.
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
DAy 18 play pics from 2 days ago.... Helga did not stop. Her bottom stems have hardened up nice but the tops were still squishy enough to bend over. SO I tied them down like I should have a week ago...

A few stems broke at the second SC'd point so I covered them up with a leaf. I have a feeling they will be ok but if not, it serves her right.

the super bud

Hairs

The madness under helga

The beautifulness uner giselle... nice stems

new canopy

old canopy


Behold....
 

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greenlikemoney

Well-Known Member
These are nice, I'm firing up a GL 60 soon, started germinating today....going to run 12/12 til they sex, then maybe veg a few weeks ( or not, might just run a straight 12/12 ).....CFl's and a HPS 150w.....I like your thread.....
 

overTHEman

Active Member
Nice update.

All four of them look happy and healthy.. including the stretcher. Were you expecting the buds to swell already? They look unrealistically huge, even the sativa pheno is plumpin up.

Any chance you could post a pic w/ a reference point for size comparison?


...

A few stems broke at the second SC'd point so I covered them up with a leaf. I have a feeling they will be ok but if not, it serves her right.

...
Hahah. Looks like the training turned out well including the accidental supercropping. The snaps shouldn't become an issue as the stem still looks green, but if they do a masking tape suture would do the trick.

Also, have you seen any trichomes yet? The bud development is strong and it's curious that the HP genetics haven't started up resin production... maybe its just the HPS light?

All I know is that hash plant genetics are funky and IMO you're doin right by them.

Props on the freakbud as well. :shock:
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
I am really wondering if some how Helga is something different. I made these seeds myself, some what by accident, and I was 100% that they were all from the same batch. Now I am wondering if a rogue seed made it in.

Mr. Nice is supposed to be a complete Indica.

I have not noticed any serious trichomes production yet, I have plucked some male sacs, maybe 6 in total. I am letting one go now to collect and save at that critical moment.

Week 5 is the second swell, and week 8 they blow up, day 59,60,61 so much change happens. trichs switch real quick so I have to be really really careful.
 

johnyutah

Well-Known Member
Day 21>

No Nutes Are Good Nutes and resin production has officially started.

Helga is back...

1/2 gallon of h20 per plant today. Somehow they were all dry on the same day.

It is very dark under the canopy

plants are starting to yellow????????? will try to take a lights off pic tonight.
 
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