Judges to decide: Can religious confessions be used against you?

[ANC]

I find the whole catholic confesional concept weird.
Surely no man can forgive your sins.

 

[RainbowBrite86]

It's a religious belief. No more odd than believing in any other mechanism for cleansing the spirit. There are cultures that physically injure, tattoo, etc. for religious purification. Getting in a closet and telling a stranger your secrets doesn't seem so bad considering...

 

[Brick Top]

The only part of this that bothers me is the degree of separation that has been reached between church and state, which should work in both directions, now has the possibility of the government dictating to religions what they can and cannot do, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, what is lawful and what is not lawful.

On government property certain types of festive decorations cannot be displayed because to 'someone who might possibly see them' they would hold a religious meaning that runs contrary to their religious beliefs or their total lack of belief.

But now it is supposedly OK for a segment of the government to step into the world of religion and dictate to it the do's and don't, the acceptable and the unacceptable.

Why should the separation between church and state suddenly become a one way door rather than the locked door that for so very long it was claimed to have been?

It sometimes amazes me how far the U.S. has shifted from what it once was in regards to religion and acceptability. When the Apollo 13 astronauts were in danger of dying in space both the Senate and the House of Representatives passed resolutions calling for the citizens of the U.S. to pray for the astronauts.

If the same thing were done today there would be a line of lawsuits longer than the Eastern seaboard waiting for their day in court to hammer the government for both Houses of Congress calling on the citizens of the nation to pray.

 

[Justin00]

I don't believe there are enough people who:
a. commit crimes, then
b. go to church, and one with a confession option, then
c. make use of the confession option, and include the crime in the confession

How many times a year could this possibly happen? Surely there are better battles to fight. Religion in general is on a downswing, if I have to have my rights infringed upon, I for one am glad they're doing it in a church. Mostly because I don't go there.

so the way you see it it's not worth fighting for if it doesn't directly hurt you? what if next time they are going after something directly reliant to your life and happiness? who is going to stand up for your rights then? this is not a fight any 1 individual can win not even something one group can win, we MUST band together to defend the rights of ALL our fellow Americans on principal, not on personal importance. Divide and conquer is one of the most well know attack tactics in history yet so many haven't even noticed how its being used in our own country. hide it behind a mask of "for your protection", or "its unhealthy", ect and we jump right on board and become a weapon of the gov pointed at each other.

 

[RainbowBrite86]

Shhhh. Don't talk back to giants. They hurt.

 

[sso]

The only part of this that bothers me is the degree of separation that has been reached between church and state, which should work in both directions, now has the possibility of the government dictating to religions what they can and cannot do, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, what is lawful and what is not lawful.

On government property certain types of festive decorations cannot be displayed because to 'someone who might possibly see them' they would hold a religious meaning that runs contrary to their religious beliefs or their total lack of belief.

But now it is supposedly OK for a segment of the government to step into the world of religion and dictate to it the do's and don't, the acceptable and the unacceptable.

Why should the separation between church and state suddenly become a one way door rather than the locked door that for so very long it was claimed to have been?

It sometimes amazes me how far the U.S. has shifted from what it once was in regards to religion and acceptability. When the Apollo 13 astronauts were in danger of dying in space both the Senate and the House of Representatives passed resolutions calling for the citizens of the U.S. to pray for the astronauts.

If the same thing were done today there would be a line of lawsuits longer than the Eastern seaboard waiting for their day in court to hammer the government for both Houses of Congress calling on the citizens of the nation to pray.

i wonder if they wouldave survived today, without prayers, interestingly ive seen instant prayer effect, ...twice in a row.

 

[Brick Top]

so the way you see it it's not worth fighting for if it doesn't directly hurt you? what if next time they are going after something directly reliant to your life and happiness? who is going to stand up for your rights then? this is not a fight any 1 individual can win not even something one group can win, we MUST band together to defend the rights of ALL our fellow Americans on principal, not on personal importance. Divide and conquer is one of the most well know attack tactics in history yet so many haven't even noticed how its being used in our own country. hide it behind a mask of "for your protection", or "its unhealthy", ect and we jump right on board and become a weapon of the gov pointed at each other.

The citizens of the U.S. have to, in one unified voice, regardless of each person's individual belief when it comes to religion, say 'no, absolutely not, this is where it ends, it goes no further' to the government and it's slow sly ever increasing intrusiveness into every aspect of our lives.

After that the people have to take back, by whatever means necessary, their lives, their rights, their protections and control of their government. If not, we will all end up slaves in "the land of the free."

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.


Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

The time has long since passed where Americans need to become loud and proud and take back what should be ours and return the government to it's rightful position, that of dutiful employees of the American people, rather than the Lords and Masters of us they have sneakily set themselves up as being.

 

[Kite High]

The citizens of the U.S. have to, in one unified voice, regardless of each person's individual belief when it comes to religion, say 'no, absolutely not, this is where it ends, it goes no further' to the government and it's slow sly ever increasing intrusiveness into every aspect of our lives.

After that the people have to take back, by whatever means necessary, their lives, their rights, their protections and control of their government. If not, we will all end up slaves in "the land of the free."

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.


Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

The time has long since passed where Americans need to become loud and proud and take back what should be ours and return the government to it's rightful position, that of dutiful employees of the American people, rather than the Lords and Masters of us they have sneakily set themselves up as being.

Truth...very good

 

[Kite High]

Where does the term "Glory hole" come from ?

Come see....I'll show ya

 

[Kite High]

But wont forcing criminals to openly deal with their issues help them, well more people that is. I'm sorry i'm a catholic but i can't justify a priest not being allowed to confirm he was told by said person that they did comit a crime, being sorry for calling your sister a bitch and parking in a handicap spot are not even close to rape or murder. I think the line between "sin" and crime are the issue.

What confuses me is that the person confesing the sin has done something wrong, why is it better to keep it quiet if the goal is to help them. How is the person keeping their lips closed doing any good, oh wait they listened and that will help

I agree to the bold...I am sorry you are catholic as well

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

so the way you see it it's not worth fighting for if it doesn't directly hurt you? what if next time they are going after something directly reliant to your life and happiness? who is going to stand up for your rights then? this is not a fight any 1 individual can win not even something one group can win, we MUST band together to defend the rights of ALL our fellow Americans on principal, not on personal importance. Divide and conquer is one of the most well know attack tactics in history yet so many haven't even noticed how its being used in our own country. hide it behind a mask of "for your protection", or "its unhealthy", ect and we jump right on board and become a weapon of the gov pointed at each other.

I think you over simplify, but I see what you're saying. For me personally, I'm burned out on that shit. Before our law here, I spent tons of my own time and money helping it happen. After our law, I spent two years and I don't even know how many thousands, but many many, traveling all around my state, sometimes in groups and sometimes alone, representing and supporting people with MMJ cases. We made a big difference in the beginning when courts where afraid to act against us and the Republicans hadn't conned their way back into power again. The climate has changed since then. As a side note, every single case I witnessed turned out (with the exception of one old lady who had two plants and a roach) to be greedy fuckers who were over the limits and used their own stupidity to get busted.

I agree with the divide and conquer. I just think we've already been well divided and the conquering is now in the process. I believe in all of the things people here are mentioning, but I don't have enough faith in my fellow Americans that they can get together as one on any topic, period. So I don't do those things much anymore. If people started getting their shit together and acting as one voice I'd be back in up to my neck, but I personally don't think that they will.

 

[guy incognito]

Yes, I understand he violated church rules--but, unless I'm missing something, why does the government have an interest in upholding the rules of a church? The government wants to prosecute him for giving the kid up? Right? Why does it matter what the pastor does in the eyes of the law? Now, a Psychiatrist is legally obligated to snitch--but a man of a church? I'm confused. (I'm gonna go read the story again)

The most confusing thing about this case for me is the fact that the State is punishing the pastor for turning in a criminal In most cases a counselor would be prosecuted for not turning in a criminal. . . . so the State wants to prosecute a pastor for violating the confidentiality of the rapist of a 9 year old girl?? And how does this make the world a better place?

What are you talking about? You've got it completely backwards. Psychiatrist, psychologists, and doctors should not and CANNOT snitch on you. If they think you or someone else is in danger then they have a moral and legal obligation to prevent it, but other than that they can't. That is the entire point of confidentiality.

The rest of you that think a pastor should be allowed to tattle on you, even for grave crimes, are fucking psychos. Unless it's to prevent someone else from getting hurt.

 

[RainbowBrite86]

What are you talking about? You've got it completely backwards. Psychiatrist, psychologists, and doctors should not and CANNOT snitch on you. If they think you or someone else is in danger then they have a moral and legal obligation to prevent it, but other than that they can't. That is the entire point of confidentiality.

The rest of you that think a pastor should be allowed to tattle on you, even for grave crimes, are fucking psychos. Unless it's to prevent someone else from getting hurt.

No, no, she's right. People in those professions are mandated reporters. Their confidentiality only extends so far. It wouldn't apply here. I know for a fact if a patient tells me they've murdered someone I have to tell my charge nurse but if he tells me he has AIDS I can't tell the last 14 women he fucked. Last night. Men are pigs.

It's the charge nurses job to call the police. But, she's responsible for the paperwork so she has to make the call.

 

[Pat the stoner]

The citizens of the U.S. have to, in one unified voice, regardless of each person's individual belief when it comes to religion, say 'no, absolutely not, this is where it ends, it goes no further' to the government and it's slow sly ever increasing intrusiveness into every aspect of our lives.

After that the people have to take back, by whatever means necessary, their lives, their rights, their protections and control of their government. If not, we will all end up slaves in "the land of the free."

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.


Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

The time has long since passed where Americans need to become loud and proud and take back what should be ours and return the government to it's rightful position, that of dutiful employees of the American people, rather than the Lords and Masters of us they have sneakily set themselves up as being.

I have always loved this . It is true they pick us off one at a time . Intrude on every aspect of our lives , as though were wards of the state and have no rights . Our rights are just that ours . They come from being alive not from the state . The gov exists to serve us not the other way around . They have us serving their whims and it was never supposed to be that way . What can we do ? People need to set differences aside and come together - unite for the common goal of self preservation against tyrannical powers .

 

[guy incognito]

No, no, she's right. People in those professions are mandated reporters. Their confidentiality only extends so far. It wouldn't apply here. I know for a fact if a patient tells me they've murdered someone I have to tell my charge nurse but if he tells me he has AIDS I can't tell the last 14 women he fucked. Last night. Men are pigs.

It's the charge nurses job to call the police. But, she's responsible for the paperwork so she has to make the call.

I still don't think she is right. If there is danger they are required to report it. If there is no danger they are not required, and are obligated not to tell. I would like to see in writing exactly where it says you are required to report past crimes.

 

[Pat the stoner]

I was once in an AA meeting where this guy came in with blood on him . After a while he said he thought he killed a guy . Somebody called popo and as they were taking him away he was pissed and said what about my f'n anonimity . An old guy replied "This isn't murderers anonymous " It's kind of off subject but . Everything the gov gets involved in they fuck up . I am a Patrick Henry/John Locke type of libertarian , Anarchy might be better than what we have right now . It's all for the wealthy and crumbs for the rest . These rubber laws they have only apply to us for the purpose of keeping us down , divided and at each others throats . Any attack on rights is an attack on us all . Religeon is in there so that athiests will not go for fighting the ruling - they keep on dividing us and we'll all be in groups of one .

 

[CinnamonGirl]

I still don't think she is right. If there is danger they are required to report it. If there is no danger they are not required, and are obligated not to tell. I would like to see in writing exactly where it says you are required to report past crimes.

In most states if a patient informs a doctor that they are planning to hurt themselves or someone else --the shrink must report. To be honest though I'm not sure if a shrink is obligated legally to divulge if it is a confession after the fact. --must google

 

[RainbowBrite86]

Next time you go to the hospital they will give you a brochure regarding patients rights and responsibilities and it will go over HIPPA (Oh God i'm so high I hope I got that acronym right lol) If you tell me you molested your child 5 years ago and no one knew about it, I have to report it. BEEECCCAAAAUUUSSE statutes of limitations don't begin until it's reported.

 

[RainbowBrite86]

Dude who tells the doctor about past crimes? Really?

 

[RainbowBrite86]

I was once in an AA meeting where this guy came in with blood on him . After a while he said he thought he killed a guy . Somebody called popo and as they were taking him away he was pissed and said what about my f'n anonimity . An old guy replied "This isn't murderers anonymous " It's kind of off subject but . Everything the gov gets involved in they fuck up . I am a Patrick Henry/John Locke type of libertarian , Anarchy might be better than what we have right now . It's all for the wealthy and crumbs for the rest . These rubber laws they have only apply to us for the purpose of keeping us down , divided and at each others throats . Any attack on rights is an attack on us all . Religeon is in there so that athiests will not go for fighting the ruling - they keep on dividing us and we'll all be in groups of one .

...I have no idea what the fuck you said. Start over. I'm listening.