Judges to decide: Can religious confessions be used against you?

[blimey]

I see some big donations from some small business owners going to the catholic church if this happens.

 

[CoAcHrOaCh]

They are all gonna have to marandize (sp?) The congregation every sunday

 

[cannabineer]

"Blessed are they who have the right to be silent" ... lol. cn

 

[CoAcHrOaCh]

"Anything you say in this church can and will be used against u in the court of public opinion and the court of law"

 

[blimey]

It's ok all they have to do is show them a business card with the miranda rights on it.

 

[CoAcHrOaCh]

Perfect they can put one in the hymn books

 

[CoAcHrOaCh]

Add little cells to the back of the church for those dirty sinners...replace priests with sheriff deputys and death and ur all set for your "religious" experience

 

[kizphilly]

i was talking to my preist the other day about this he told me even if there was a court order he wouldnt tell them anything my preist>

 

[CinnamonGirl]

wait a minute. . .isn't there a separation of church and state? There is a law that compels religious people to follow the rules of their religion? wtf?

 

[cannabineer]

Yes ... the minister volunteered. Snitch. cn

<edit> Dilemma. Snitch vs. obstructor. maybe that's why the Catholic Church has the hard&fast rule about the sanctity of the confessional ... it spares priests just this sort of moral conflict.

 

[sso]

oh i guess we are really fucked when they decide to put surveillance equipment in all houses, using some computer to monitor everything.

probably put it in the toilets too ("why? got anything to hide?" )

or mandatory inspections in every home.

for our protection and safety of course

 

[sso]

though of course "important" people would undoubtedly be exempt from that

 

[Justin00]

so much for separation of church and state...... can we get prayer and morals back in some classrooms now?

i don't see how this can really be allowed, not that i disagree with the guys being punished, but it is a core part of many religions and moral codes to confess your sins weather it be thru prayer or to a priest.

it seems there is little way around that with out it being religious persecution..... and last i heard that was one of the major points of the US, if not a major part of why the US began..... and now religious persecution is about to become common place.

 

[Corxrew]

If they rule in favor of separation of church and state then a rapist will go free.... fucking double-jeopardy.

 

[obijohn]

I dunno. On one hand I think any confession to a priest should be confidential. But if someone killed someone and confesses, the dilemma is, if the priest doesn't say anything, the possibility that the person will kill more people. So which is worse? Same for psychiatrists etc. Maybe before confession or anything else, it should be made clear that everything said is confidential UNLESS it involves a serious crime...murder, rape and the like, certainly nothing like drug use, shoplifting etc.

In that way there is still confidentiality except in the above examples, in which case the confessee is aware beforehand that anything involving harm to others is exempt from that confidentiality

 

[Justin00]

the way i see it the only thing this will achieve is ppl will no longer confess, no longer search for help for fear of punishment. the church has always (in terms of America) been a place ppl can go to get help and not have to worry about persecution or punishment.

it will just cause ppl to stop seaking "any" type of help and just deal deal with it the way they are atm.

and there are some crimes that can be avoided by ppl getting help rather than punishment.

the purpose of therapists, pastors, priest, ect. is not to be narcs for the law but to work in a way the law can't.

removing them effectively does nothing but remove one form of "help" available to Americans and leave us with only the HAMMER to deal with our problems.

 

[CinnamonGirl]

Yes ... the minister volunteered. Snitch. cn

<edit> Dilemma. Snitch vs. obstructor. maybe that's why the Catholic Church has the hard&fast rule about the sanctity of the confessional ... it spares priests just this sort of moral conflict.

Yes, I understand he violated church rules--but, unless I'm missing something, why does the government have an interest in upholding the rules of a church? The government wants to prosecute him for giving the kid up? Right? Why does it matter what the pastor does in the eyes of the law? Now, a Psychiatrist is legally obligated to snitch--but a man of a church? I'm confused. (I'm gonna go read the story again)

 

[CoAcHrOaCh]

Right psychiatrists would lose their license if they don't report...as far as im aware there is no such law for priests...

 

[CinnamonGirl]

Right psychiatrists would lose their license if they don't report...as far as im aware there is no such law for priests...

Well, we would both be wrong apparently the law does regulate religion--unbelievable!:

• Clergy
  • 1. The clergy-penitent' privilege under Michigan law provides as follows:No minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, or duly accredited Christian Science practitioner, shall be allowed to disclose any confessions made to him in his professional character, in the course of discipline enjoined by the rules or practice of such denomination.2. The case for confidentiality is clearest in a confessional setting.
    • a. Counseling sessions involving standard clinical counseling methods, standard clinically recognized mental conditions, or non-clergy are not covered by the privilege.b. When the privilege does not apply, the counselor may be compelled to disclose the personal secrets of the client.
    Comment: It is not clear what is meant by counseling which is "in the course of discipline" of a cleric. Most likely, this is not a reference to the narrow circumstance of when a person (the client) may be subject to formal church 'discipline,' but rather refers to any communications in the course of religious practice according to the rules and discipline of the church which the cleric is bound to observe. However, there is no case law interpreting this language.3. For counseling activities performed by non-licensed and non-ordained counselors, or spiritual counseling performed by clerics which is non-confessional in nature, the issue of confidentiality will largely depend on the existence of an implied or express contract requiring confidentiality which is established at the commencement of the counseling relationship.

 

[Justin00]

what everyone is over looking is there are a lot of people who find help and change there lives by counciling with therapists and ministers.

removing therapists and ministers will not stop the crime only cause them to escalate because the ppl have no one to turn to for help.

i'm not saying there crimes are fine, all i'm saying is they help reduce crime by helping some ppl, removing them will only cause those ppl to not recieve help and continue to commit crimes.