The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread

[k0ijn]

Very good topic. I am sure the proof from either side will be anecdotal at best. Yet, I will still flush.
I grow the same crop from the same clone and harvest every 70 to 80 days, for the past seven to eight years (with a few exceptions).
A few times I forgot to flush and just chopped them down.. Here comes the anecdotal evidence... Right away I started getting comments from the wife that it taste like a medicine cabinet (no other comments about the ash or burning). When I asked a few others to give it a try I get the same reaction.
I harvest and cure the same way without exception, yet I get the same reaction everytime I forget to flush. I am told the high is the same, just the after taste is weird.

Could be my method of growing and the nutrients I use.
I use General Hydroponics Flora Series via the Lucas formula.
I grow in Bubble Buckets (DWC)
FYI: Lucas is a non-flusher (I think)
I will keep flushing because it makes my wife happy.

If you cared to read the thread you would see scientific proof.
I (and others) have posted scientifically valid and factual information from real studies and papers, made by real scientists.
It's not anecdotal at all...

YOUR "evidence" might be anecdotal and therefore pretty much useless to us, if you have any real proof or information, go ahead, post it.
But since I have seen you claiming shit before without any proof (even though you said you had authors and science backing you) I'm not surprised to see more bullshit coming from you.

It's the same old story, it's been "discussed" so many times in this thread alone and countless times in the H&C section alone.
This theory about chemmed-up bud is ridiculous and it's never been proven.

As said before, but I will repeat it again, drying & curing is in the end what determines how well the final product tastes, feels, looks etc.
Unless you have any real scientific proof, your words mean nothing.
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i like this part of the study

"It seems that with increasing amount of nitrogen, fresh leaves weight and dry leaves weight increased but leaves quality decrease"

i like this qoute from that studdy at the bottom of your post, i swing for Quality's team any day over quantity

First of all, how do you know if this equates to pre-harvest flushing?
You are grasping at straws.

And since when is that news and in any way helpful to the 'pre-harvest leaching (flushing)' discussion?
Overfeeding plants give you unwell plants which won't give you a product on par with properly fed plants.
This proves nothing about pre-harvest leaching.
It proves nothing in this discussion.
If this is what you think of as 'hard' evidence that you're somehow right, then you are delusional.


I have not seen one pro pre-harvest leaching person post any scientifically valid information.
I have posted factual science studies, SirLance has.

All I see you guys doing is trying to turn around the meaning of what is posted by con pre-harvest leaching people, passing it off as your own, and claiming you have tons of proof.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.
The real discussion ended over 10 pages ago when Gas gave up replying to my posts..

 

[VanishingToaster]

This is why I don't believe in keeping your plants green al the way till the end. The point of growing is the buds. By the end of flower the fan leaves should be yellow, and if timed just right, beginning to fall of the week you harvest. Were not growing to make pretty plants, were growing for fat buds.

i'd say a healthier plant would more likely produce fatter buds than a half dead scraggly plant.

as for the guy who forgot to flush ..... if he forgot to flush what else did he forget? was it really his best example i dunno, theres no way any of us can prove anything, not really what we're here to do, all i can talk about is what i've discovered, i just dont get how people can venomously vent their opinions at me in that fashion for offering MY opinion. you have your opinion, express it without attacking me, back it up with ur reasons and we might get close to a conversation

 

[VanishingToaster]

went back to earlier discussions in the thread. theres a lot more and i mean a lot more actual information. i've actually managed to settle on a theory. overfeeding is the enemy with chemmed up bud, yes it does seem to exist !! its not solely down to a lack of flushing, just overfeeding. there was mention of, and studies to back up, that chems can be stored in all organs of the plant and up to 10x the sulfur content. sulfur is vile and would only require minimal amounts to affect taste overall.

this paints a possible picture of people feeding normal amounts to plants not flushing and having lovely fine bud and overfeeders producing chemmed up stuff. maybe why the people who stop flushing after a few grows dont seem to suffer from the chemmed up stuff, just experience.

question is, how much flushing for how much overfeeding ?

 

[Rumple]

If you cared to read the thread you would see scientific proof.
I (and others) have posted scientifically valid and factual information from real studies and papers, made by real scientists.
It's not anecdotal at all...

YOUR "evidence" might be anecdotal and therefore pretty much useless to us, if you have any real proof or information, go ahead, post it.
But since I have seen you claiming shit before without any proof (even though you said you had authors and science backing you) I'm not surprised to see more bullshit coming from you.

It's the same old story, it's been "discussed" so many times in this thread alone and countless times in the H&C section alone.
This theory about chemmed-up bud is ridiculous and it's never been proven.

As said before, but I will repeat it again, drying & curing is in the end what determines how well the final product tastes, feels, looks etc.
Unless you have any real scientific proof, your words mean nothing.

"sigh* Is the hostility necessary friend?" Are you able to just talk about stuff without being so serious? It's about time for you to change strains, buy one that will relax you.
I love the topic and I think the OP has a good point, but I see both sides lacking in proof that would sway the other side to change.
But you are correct, I did bring little to the conversation.
Dude, it's just the internet, let it go.

SirLancelot, I am sorry I posted my wife's opinion here. Great subject, I'm glad you brought up the topic.
Peace, R.

 

[sso]

i flushed once, havent done it again, dont see the point.

 

[LIVE2GRO]

It's just your post is so stupidly ridiculous it's unreal. Can tell the different phosphates by taste? That's total shite man. Iv liked/repped some of your posts before but that last one was ridiculous. "People can taste that shit", the people taste the shit coming off that post.

Happy new years and all but a good dry and cure on good genetics is what it takes for any strain/feed method. I can't taste the difference between the plants I fed PK13/14 and didn't feed (but the PK13/14 plants are a bit bigger!).
Come on man, people can taste the difference between boosters? Bullshit talk!

actually i have a buddy who can tell the difference between my fox farm buds and my bio canna buds.. and even the coco canna a and b buds.. i did a taste test .. were i knew what they were and he didnt.. and then i also bought 3 different types of buds from a friend n he told me wat they were grown with .. and if boost was used on the canna and if the solubles were used on fox farm.. people that know what to look for can deff tell.. the only thing that screwed my friend up was the 1 plant that i fed with foxfarms and bio canna every other feed the opposite 1.. but he did say who ever grew it mixed a bunch of different things hahahh . the kid runs a hydro shop in a med state so i think he can tell .. he proved me wrong. so thats good enough for me ..

 

[Harrekin]

actually i have a buddy who can tell the difference between my fox farm buds and my bio canna buds.. and even the coco canna a and b buds.. i did a taste test .. were i knew what they were and he didnt.. and then i also bought 3 different types of buds from a friend n he told me wat they were grown with .. and if boost was used on the canna and if the solubles were used on fox farm.. people that know what to look for can deff tell.. the only thing that screwed my friend up was the 1 plant that i fed with foxfarms and bio canna every other feed the opposite 1.. but he did say who ever grew it mixed a bunch of different things hahahh . the kid runs a hydro shop in a med state so i think he can tell .. he proved me wrong. so thats good enough for me ..

So pray, do tell, what's the difference between Canna and Fox Farm chemically?

 

[skunkd0c]

34 pages of worthless finicky drivel
1 or 2 weeks of flushing or not flushing makes such little difference

 

[OldGrowAddict]

Fact: Even if a plant has been correctly flushed, the resulting smoke can still be shitty burning and tasting. What does this mean? From a science perspective, this means flushing is a myth - because the method tested only have to fail once to prove there HAS TO BE other variables as to why the resulting pot burns and taste like shit. Any new theory has to work every time, scientificly. IMHO, there are too many variables - WHY does a lot of non-flushed pot taste and burn wonderful? I guess everything is a variable (enviroment, light, temps, nutrients etc), but mostly drying and curing.

 

[Beansly]

So pray, do tell, what's the difference between Canna and Fox Farm chemically?

If there's a difference, it's probably in the source of the K in the bloom bottles/boosters.
I love arrogant people like yourself hat think that just because YOU can't do something it's impossible that anyone else can....
This isn't fucking Ireland..... the grow scene here is very sophisticated with a lot of people I know growing for 50+ years. Whether they call themselves it or not, after a certain amount of time, these people become pros, whether they're know on the internet or not (and most of the avoid the internet like the plague).
My 'buddy', as you guys say to demean his status, has been growing since before Canna, General Hydroponics, Advanced Nutrients and all the canna specific nutrient lines. When he can rattle off the typeds of nutes used and whether it was growing indoor or outdoor, hydro or organic, K source and all, I tend to believe him. Foolish me...

i'd say a healthier plant would more likely produce fatter buds than a half dead scraggly plant.

Who said anything about a half-dead scraggly plant?
I don't think there's anything more beautiful than a healthily yellowing plant at the end of flower. If your plant is half dead and scraggly then I'd say you probably don't know what you're doing. Why do you think that late flower fertilizers have nearly no N at all. It's cause for our purposes, the plant doesn't need it. Your plant can be healthy and yellow.... lmao

If you want to re-veg your plant then MAYBE you'd want to keep it green the whole time, but otherwise i don't think so.

 

[LIVE2GRO]

well put it this way the kid im talking about.. works at a hydro store... .. and he said the fox farms leaves a weird taste... .. canna has a nice kinda sweeter taste wen boost is used.. without boost its not as sweet.. i like both it doesnt really matter to me but i notice my plants stay a hell fo a lot greener threw the grow with canna.

 

[sso]

Fact: Even if a plant has been correctly flushed, the resulting smoke can still be shitty burning and tasting. What does this mean? From a science perspective, this means flushing is a myth - because the method tested only have to fail once to prove there HAS TO BE other variables as to why the resulting pot burns and taste like shit. Any new theory has to work every time, scientificly. IMHO, there are too many variables - WHY does a lot of non-flushed pot taste and burn wonderful? I guess everything is a variable (enviroment, light, temps, nutrients etc), but mostly drying and curing.

well, the main difference ive noticed between plants, is that more sativa plants, have more smokable leaves.

indica leaves are more harsh.

some indica plants are more suited for making hash, than anything (make ya cough like crazy (even smoking pure bud with no leaves) (and thats organic growing)

while my pure sativa has leaves that are fine for smoking (great taste..)

and the most sativa hybrid has much more palatable leaves than the next hybrid (50/50) which again is better tasting than the more indicas or pure ones.


this pretty much seems to be a rule so far that i see.

..though it would be difficult to state this as fact, considering the wide number of hybrids and strains out there along with the whole legal issue and difficulty in testing.

 

[Mr.Marijuana420]

there are ppl that follow whats writtin in books, and there are ppl that use the books as a basic guidline, and tweek and experiment along the way. the ones who experiment with new ideas are the ones who prevail as a better grower because theyve gone through the motions of learning whats best. if everyone did there grow according to the book, we'd still be growing pot like they did in the sixties. so ultimatley the ppl who are gonna keep growin off the book and are too scared to try somethin new are missing out, what every one who questioned the truth in this post should do, is finish some plants with a flush some without, dont do what other ppl do, find what u do

 

[SirLancelot]

"sigh* Is the hostility necessary friend?" Are you able to just talk about stuff without being so serious? It's about time for you to change strains, buy one that will relax you.
I love the topic and I think the OP has a good point, but I see both sides lacking in proof that would sway the other side to change.
But you are correct, I did bring little to the conversation.
Dude, it's just the internet, let it go.

SirLancelot, I am sorry I posted my wife's opinion here. Great subject, I'm glad you brought up the topic.
Peace, R.

no worries my friend, I appreciate all positive input to the conversation. and you've done this expirement for youself and have your own results which I respect. Unlike others I welcome facts from both sides as Im trying to get to the main point not argue with an agenda of where I want to stand on the topic.

Haha I hear ya on the wifey, mine usually has somewhat of a say when I grow lol, gotta keep her happy so she can let me keep my room she wants to turn to a storage room lol!!

 

[SirLancelot]

If there's a difference, it's probably in the source of the K in the bloom bottles/boosters.
I love arrogant people like yourself hat think that just because YOU can't do something it's impossible that anyone else can....
This isn't fucking Ireland..... the grow scene here is very sophisticated with a lot of people I know growing for 50+ years. Whether they call themselves it or not, after a certain amount of time, these people become pros, whether they're know on the internet or not (and most of the avoid the internet like the plague).
My 'buddy', as you guys say to demean his status, has been growing since before Canna, General Hydroponics, Advanced Nutrients and all the canna specific nutrient lines. When he can rattle off the typeds of nutes used and whether it was growing indoor or outdoor, hydro or organic, K source and all, I tend to believe him. Foolish me...


Who said anything about a half-dead scraggly plant?
I don't think there's anything more beautiful than a healthily yellowing plant at the end of flower. If your plant is half dead and scraggly then I'd say you probably don't know what you're doing. Why do you think that late flower fertilizers have nearly no N at all. It's cause for our purposes, the plant doesn't need it. Your plant can be healthy and yellow.... lmao

If you want to re-veg your plant then MAYBE you'd want to keep it green the whole time, but otherwise i don't think so.

Im going out on a limb to say your an example of when you grow bomb as nug regardless if you flush or not and do it properly you get bomb as nug! your plants look healthier than many other plants I've seen flushed.

Your right the plant does need less N in flowering just like my chilis, tomatoes, cucumbers and many other plants. But growing up gardening with my mother and /gma we always made sure our veggies and fruits were nice a green during fruiting, I understand this is a different plant but I feel similar in areas. I don't know if fruits/veggies would taste any better/worse If i left the leaves to yellow out and not give them a N boost late in flowering, I just don't know if i can attribute just Nitrogen levels in a plant to a specific taste as someone pointed out theres too many other variables. Once you (not you specifically beansly, but the readers) grow a few and try what works best for you then you will get what you want out of your buds your growing. Im sure I do some unorthodox methods to my plants that others would deem "insane" yet I've found these to work better for me than other methods. Yet I have a friend who's style of growing is a little more different than mine Im always asking "what did you do that for?" but at the end of the day we both are smokin good nugs...

A horse a piece...

 

[sso]

its not the fanleaves that are important, they usually die off unless you feed it too much N.

my plants dont have any fanleaves left when they are done. just buds (all buds alive and well, though many sugar leaves have begun to die off at the end (basically its a sticky sugary mess left (healthy buds though)

but i find that you can reveg even at this point, its enough that the buds are well. (its from them the plant regenerates its new leaves)

 

[IVIars]

I can't post the link from my phone. Look up a north Carolina flue-cure study

 

[k0ijn]

"sigh* Is the hostility necessary friend?" Are you able to just talk about stuff without being so serious? It's about time for you to change strains, buy one that will relax you.
I love the topic and I think the OP has a good point, but I see both sides lacking in proof that would sway the other side to change.
But you are correct, I did bring little to the conversation.
Dude, it's just the internet, let it go.

SirLancelot, I am sorry I posted my wife's opinion here. Great subject, I'm glad you brought up the topic.
Peace, R.

I see you just stole SirLance's first sentence reply to samwell..

First of all, I'm not your friend, and I never will be as long as you continue to spread wrong information and as long as you won't admit that you are wrong.
I will keep letting people know that you are a deceiver, that your information cannot be trusted and that on top of that, you are so arrogant that you won't listen to reason and logic, not even if it's accompanied by scientifically valid information.

Oh it's a questions of lacking information?
Why don't you care to read the scientific information I posted? I have posted real studies made by scientists..

How is "it's just the internet" a proper argument?
You are still spreading wrong information and complaining to admins when you don't get your way, I have absolutely zero respect for you, and I see that most other experienced growers don't have any respect for you either.
This must stem from your pathological need to always be right, no matter how wrong you are.
You just can't listen to reason, and you keep deflecting, changing topic, talking about stuff that has no validity to the real discussion.

 

[wbd]

I see you just stole SirLance's first sentence reply to samwell..

First of all, I'm not your friend, and I never will be as long as you continue to spread wrong information and as long as you won't admit that you are wrong.
I will keep letting people know that you are a deceiver, that your information cannot be trusted and that on top of that, you are so arrogant that you won't listen to reason and logic, not even if it's accompanied by scientifically valid information.

Oh it's a questions of lacking information?
Why don't you care to read the scientific information I posted? I have posted real studies made by scientists..

How is "it's just the internet" a proper argument?
You are still spreading wrong information and complaining to admins when you don't get your way, I have absolutely zero respect for you, and I see that most other experienced growers don't have any respect for you either.
This must stem from your pathological need to always be right, no matter how wrong you are.
You just can't listen to reason, and you keep deflecting, changing topic, talking about stuff that has no validity to the real discussion.

Wow, lame personal attacks aside...

35 pages later and all of the science, measuring of post counts and grow experience, pictures which prove nothing, etc., not one person has been able to provide compelling evidence that flushing helps or hurts final product.

I mean, isn't that what everyone reading this wants to know -- should they flush or not?

All that science and the question remains unanswered.

 

[wbd]

but I see both sides lacking in proof that would sway the other side to change.

Yup, I see the exact same thing. 35 pages of inconclusive science and taste tests, plenty of namecalling, and that's about it.