The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread

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Harrekin

Well-Known Member
How would i go about proving it to you? Care to post something that is trying to start some shit?
It's just your post is so stupidly ridiculous it's unreal. Can tell the different phosphates by taste? That's total shite man. Iv liked/repped some of your posts before but that last one was ridiculous. "People can taste that shit", the people taste the shit coming off that post.

Happy new years and all but a good dry and cure on good genetics is what it takes for any strain/feed method. I can't taste the difference between the plants I fed PK13/14 and didn't feed (but the PK13/14 plants are a bit bigger!).
Come on man, people can taste the difference between boosters? Bullshit talk!
 

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
so no one is even going to acknowledge that ingesting plant matter is different then inhaling smoke and vapor . . . .. . . . . . . . . and the elements with in the smoke will be converted from one state of matter to another differently then being ingested within the plant structure

or more to the point the digestion system does not break down plant matter as easily as other foods . . . . .idk just a thought

and seeing that the only evidence that flushing doesnt work are food crops resutls and methods or conjecture and hersay

i say this issue is not as cut and dry as all you people say it is
 

gudkarma

New Member
400w vert dude, let me direct you to post #291
 

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Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
so no one is even going to acknowledge that ingesting plant matter is different then inhaling smoke and vapor . . . .. . . . . . . . . and the elements with in the smoke will be converted from one state of matter to another differently then being ingested within the plant structure

or more to the point the digestion system does not break down plant matter as easily as other foods . . . . .idk just a thought

and seeing that the only evidence that flushing doesnt work are food crops resutls and methods or conjecture and hersay

i say this issue is not as cut and dry as all you people say it is
lets go pseudo intellectuals
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
lets go pseudo intellectuals
Do you know what the words "chemical element" mean? If you did, you'd realise that regardless of smoked/eaten, once in the body are still the element.

This is why people preaching about organics is hilarious. Nitrogen as an element cannot be broken down or changed, an element is indivisible without a particle accelerator. "Organic Nitrogen" is just N with other elements stuck to it, which are removed by bacteria in the soil.

Your whole premise that elements can somehow be removed from a plant or "changed" within the plant is flawed purely cos chemistry doesnt work like that. Also organics is flawed cos the plant uptakes the same elements from their food regardless of "chemical", "synthetic" or "organic". Not to say organic is useless or anything, just the claims it is somehow "different" in it's ultimate chemical makeup is absurd.
 

VanishingToaster

Active Member
so no one is even going to acknowledge that ingesting plant matter is different then inhaling smoke and vapor . . . .. . . . . . . . . and the elements with in the smoke will be converted from one state of matter to another differently then being ingested within the plant structure

or more to the point the digestion system does not break down plant matter as easily as other foods . . . . .idk just a thought

and seeing that the only evidence that flushing doesnt work are food crops resutls and methods or conjecture and hersay

i say this issue is not as cut and dry as all you people say it is

you should read the whole thread before you demand that we pay attention to ur point. its already been covered. if you want to look for examples of flushing where the matter is being inhaled then you look towards the tobacco industry who's end product is ignited and inhaled.

and for the record they dont flush, but they do cure, google it
 

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
the tobacco industry is your proof

wtf

they just started giving us cancer too, so im supposed to believe the guys who soak there final product it embalming fluid and ammonia are making choices based on our health

holy shit,

ya right

if you think that nitrogen will remain the same as it is converted to vapor from a natural state then you are very ill informed, all elements converted to one state to another change their composition,

and ingestion is by no way smoking, haha

you people would rather argue about which technique is better, seems actual science takes a basck seat to agenda,

i still cant believe you sourced the tobbacco industry as proof to a heathly plant smoking properties if not flushed fucking eh
 

SirLancelot

Active Member
I really don't know an answer to your question. can you explain it?

but Im sure we can agree alot of "changes" occur when a bud is being smoked... going from solid to a gas. how can you be so certain its the nutrients that are causing that taste and not any number of other possibilites when it changes form?
 

SirLancelot

Active Member
here's some information I've pulled up on fine cigars. Now I would think that a good cigar company is going to really take care of their crop for the end result. I even found an article on how they get different tastes in cigars. It's funny they mention nothing of nutrients just different types of tabacco. Check it out:

There are a number of steps or functions involved in creating a premium handmade cigar. Making, assembling or rolling the cigar is only one of them. Believe it or not, some cigar companies do not actually make cigars. If a company owns the trademark of a particular brand of cigars, then that company can hire or contract with an actual cigar maker to produce cigars for them, in lieu of making cigars themselves. To understand how the cigar industry works, we must take a look at some of the major steps required to turn a handful of cigar tobacco seeds into the finished cigar that you see for sale at your favorite cigar retailers.

Grow and/or Buy Tobacco
To make a cigar, you first need some cigar tobacco. The cigar tobaccos used for the filler, binder and wrapper can be acquired or grown by a cigar company. Identifying and acquiring specific types of desirable tobacco on the open market is easier said than done. Since smaller cigar companies may not have the capital, expertise or even the desire to grow their own tobacco, buying from others is their most viable option. Many steps are required to grow tobacco, and even after the plants are grown and harvested, the tobacco must also be cured, fermented, aged and processed. However, larger cigar companies that want to control the quality and quantity of the tobacco used for their cigars may not only grow and process their own tobacco, but even develop and cultivate their own unique strains of seeds. A cigar company that grows and processes their own tobacco might also buy specific types of unique or desirable tobaccos from farmers and/or brokers, too.
Develop and Identify a Blend
The next major step in making a cigar is to blend or combine various types tobaccos together into a cigar that not only tastes good, but burns well and possesses several other characteristics that are desired in premium handmade cigars. Blenders will experiment with a variety of different combinations of tobaccos until they identify a blend that works, at least according to their own personal requirements. The blend is the same thing as a formula or recipe. For example, use equal amounts of fillers C, F, H, and W with binder D and roll into wrapper X. Blending is a function that many cigar enthusiasts would like to do themselves, and is a main reason why owners of small cigar companies establish their own brands in the first place.
Production
Now, we have finally arrived at the step where a cigar is actually made. Most premium cigars are made by hand, by experienced cigar rollers in factories in the Caribbean or Central America. Cigars are also rolled by hand in small cigar shops all over the world. Many small cigar companies who own their own brand do not own their own factories (nor cigar shops), and must contract with others to make cigars for them (using the prescribed recipe or blend). Larger companies usually have their own cigar factories and make their own cigars, but they can contract with other cigar makers, also. After a cigar is finished, inspected and packaged, it must be stored and aged for a period of time before moving on to the final steps.

This one is just a simple managing tabacco guide:


Mix fertilizer into your soil if you notice the leaves fading in color. Fertilizer will feed the plant and keep it looking green and healthy. Fertilizer is not always required, and should not be needed once the plant begins to flower. If you do fertilize, use a fertilizer designed specifically for tobacco, or for tomatoes, peppers or potatoes. These fertilizers are low in chlorine and high in nitrates.



2 Hoe or pull all weeds that are growing near your tobacco plants. Check regularly for weeds, as weeds will use up the nutrients that the tobacco plants need to thrive.



3 Supply the tobacco plant with between one and two inches of water each week. Tobacco is very sensitive to drought and under watering. Do not let the soil dry out in between watering sessions.



4 Check the plants for insect infestation each time you water. Tobacco is naturally insect repellant, but can see infestations by moths or caterpillars. Remove these by hand from the plant to prevent them from eating the leaves. Wear gloves if you are not comfortable touching the bugs directly.



5 Remove the top buds of the tobacco plant before they open by pulling them off or cutting them off with pruning shears. Removing these buds will allow for the leaves at the top of the plant to grow larger, producing a better tobacco crop.



6 Remove axillary suckers that form on the leaves after the buds are eliminated. Pull them off with your hands once they become about an inch in size so that they do not stunt leaf growth.

And finally here is an expirement done from a university using 4 different kinds of nitrogen, pottasium and other fertilizers to see what the differences in the end products were. It's actually a pretty cool study and goes fairly indepth yet still nothing on flushing to take chemicals out of the leaves and improve taste. here's the link: http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj15(7)11/5.pdf

Oh and my sources for the first two:
http://cigars.about.com/od/howcigarsaremade/a/Cigar-Makers-And-Cigar-Companies.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how_5673825_manage-tobacco-plants.html
http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj15(7)11/5.pdf





 

IVIars

Active Member
I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone seen the info from tobacco companies saying that calmag at the end would lead to a white ash when burned?

I am a flusher, but I'll try not flushing a plant or two and see how it goes
 

Rumple

Well-Known Member
Very good topic. I am sure the proof from either side will be anecdotal at best. Yet, I will still flush.
I grow the same crop from the same clone and harvest every 70 to 80 days, for the past seven to eight years (with a few exceptions).
A few times I forgot to flush and just chopped them down.. Here comes the anecdotal evidence... Right away I started getting comments from the wife that it taste like a medicine cabinet (no other comments about the ash or burning). When I asked a few others to give it a try I get the same reaction.
I harvest and cure the same way without exception, yet I get the same reaction everytime I forget to flush. I am told the high is the same, just the after taste is weird.

Could be my method of growing and the nutrients I use.
I use General Hydroponics Flora Series via the Lucas formula.
I grow in Bubble Buckets (DWC)
FYI: Lucas is a non-flusher (I think)
Flushing is not necessary in DWC or EbbFlow, or any system that has a TDS below 1500 in the root zone.
I will keep flushing because it makes my wife happy.
 

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
i like this part of the study

"It seems that with increasing amount of nitrogen, fresh leaves weight and dry leaves weight increased but leaves quality decrease"

i like this qoute from that studdy at the bottom of your post, i swing for Quality's team any day over quantity
 

SirLancelot

Active Member
i like this part of the study

"It seems that with increasing amount of nitrogen, fresh leaves weight and dry leaves weight increased but leaves quality decrease"

i like this qoute from that studdy at the bottom of your post, i swing for Quality's team any day over quantity
out of all of that, that's all you have? I was hoping for some information from you, atleast I tried to provide some. You were asking about the chemical change that happens and I don't know do you? if so please share
and you didn't find it interesting that when making taste in cigars they mention nothing of nutrients?
 

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
out of all of that, that's all you have? I was hoping for some information from you, atleast I tried to provide some. You were asking about the chemical change that happens and I don't know do you? if so please share and you didn't find it interesting that when making taste in cigars they mention nothing of nutrients?


why dont you actually read the studies in your post before using your child like sense of entitlement that screams do the work and thinking for me and well im not breaking down all the information in the source i quoted so you can have a more rounded understanding of things that you dont understand to begin with

-

and actually they mention a lot about nutrients and its suspected affects on the elemental composition of the final product, phosphorus and potassium are also mention wtf did you even read any of the cigar test info at the bottom of your post

http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj15(7)11/5.pdf
 

SirLancelot

Active Member
why dont you actually read the studies in your post before using your child like sense of entitlement that screams do the work and thinking for me and well im not breaking down all the information in the source i quoted so you can have a more rounded understanding of things that you dont understand to begin with

-

and actually they mention a lot about nutrients and its suspected affects on the elemental composition of the final product, phosphorus and potassium are also mention wtf did you even read any of the cigar test info at the bottom of your post

http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj15(7)11/5.pdf
*sigh* Is the hostility neccessary friend? I was just trying to have a conversation, I apologize if Im not a scientist (it seems everyone whos grown marijuana for a few years is, I always thought there was more to being a scientest than growing a couple plants) you came in and asked a very valid question which I welcome because that is what leads to truth. I respecfully admit I don't know the answer to your question probably because this isn't my field of study, I choose the business and financing route... Even after I admit I don't know the answer to your question you still refuse to explain or show any facts. I mean if you want to keep your secret knowledge to yourself then by all means please do but to come into the thread without reading it (I apologize if Im wrong but this was the impression I got) and start being hostil without providing any positive info doesn't really seem too productive to the conversation.

The funny thing is this thread was all started about pre-harvest flushing to improve TASTE.

The part you pointed out I understand and found quit intersting myself! but it still doesn't say shit about improvement of taste which is what this thread is about.
 

Beansly

RIU Bulldog
i like this part of the study

"It seems that with increasing amount of nitrogen, fresh leaves weight and dry leaves weight increased but leaves quality decrease"

i like this qoute from that studdy at the bottom of your post, i swing for Quality's team any day over quantity
This is why I don't believe in keeping your plants green al the way till the end. The point of growing is the buds. By the end of flower the fan leaves should be yellow, and if timed just right, beginning to fall of the week you harvest. Were not growing to make pretty plants, were growing for fat buds.
 
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