New Led Or Not ?

[anotherdaymusic]

LEDs make bud more crystalized than hps hands down, and an led for veg is pretty ultimate...wicked node spacing and more bushy than a halide all day. there is no comparison lol.

 

[puffenuff]

I will be starting my grow after the new year, and yes, I will be documenting the grow on a daily basis. On your point of being vague, I really would love to give out all the details of my findings but I hope you can understand that this would not be in my best interests at the moment, I have done so much research and put so much work into this project that it would be suicide in the way of competition. You are correct that I am going down the route of veg and flower models, that being said, the flower model will still veg very well but now I am NOT going to be competing against other Led companies, I am competing against HID, so I need to get everything perfect and not just give out false promises. Please be patient with me, I believe I am doing this the right way

Cool, man, im looking forward to less vague talk and more action. So when exactly is this test going to happen because "after new years" is pretty vague...is it going to be in the first weeks of January? Or during the 11 other months that follow new years? Im confused by many of the statements youve made in this thread. You claim to be competing against hid lights and not led companies...so then why are you scared to tell us your research findings? Because hid companies wont copy those findings. But youre afraid other led companies would? Sounds like youre cimpeting directly with led companies then, contrary to what youve previously stated. I'm also not sure when this took a turn to being about profit because from the start you claimed it wasnt and that it is all about furthering the led technology. I'll be waiting, impatiently, only because I'm not going to beg you for details. You can only tell people you have the key for so long with out showing to anyone before that gets old. Based on your other comments, I can probably determine the changes youre making anyway, just want to hear it straight from the horses mouth and what science backs those theories. Best of luck to you, I truly wish you to be successful with this light.

 

[PetFlora]

Please explain

You said "Finally there really is no need to call led's "tosser", there has been sufficient bad mouthing on these forums and has been proven to be non-constructive time and time again, but keep watching"

When the bulbs in your fixture lose let's say 30% intensity, and/or die, (both are inevitable) unless you are designing it so that the end user can quickly and easily replace bulbs, and power supplies, to me it's a tosser. Am I missing something?

I am not trying to be an ass, simply stating the unspoken truth as it relates to any LED that does not offer these features.

 

[maxpesh]

Please explain

You said "Finally there really is no need to call led's "tosser", there has been sufficient bad mouthing on these forums and has been proven to be non-constructive time and time again, but keep watching"

When the bulbs in your fixture lose let's say 30% intensity, and/or die, (both are inevitable) unless you are designing it so that the end user can quickly and easily replace bulbs, and power supplies, to me it's a tosser. Am I missing something?

I am not trying to be an ass, simply stating the unspoken truth as it relates to any LED that does not offer these features.

Glad u mentioned that, actually there will be no glues used. all nuts and bolts and user replaceable parts. Hope this alleviates at least one of your concerns ?

 

[PetFlora]

It makes the fixture less obsolete. Good on your part.

 

[st0wner]

havent seen any updates recently i know its the holidays and all but i was wondering if theres any news on the led?

 

[maxpesh]

havent seen any updates recently i know its the holidays and all but i was wondering if theres any news on the led?

Hello there my friend. The prototype/test light is going to get manufactured around about end of January to middle of February, I've almost finalised the specs but just waiting for a Biologist friend to get back to me with some final results on my choice of spectrum's as he has access to lots of equipment at the University and is testing some of my theories as to why Led's just haven't made a big enough impact on HPS. However up to now it is all looking very promising, I haven't been updating much because I don't want people to think that I am all mouth and no action i.e. full of shit . You will of course be one of the first to know about all progress made. Take care and merry xmas

 

[PetFlora]

One problem with a 'one light fits all' design approach is Sats/Indicas are grown in different parts of the world: Sats close to the equator, Indicas the opposite. They are genetically predisposed to different grow cycles and use different percentages of spectrums.

However, a good general ratio of R/G/B/: G is a constant ~ 10% (helps R/B absorption) with R/B alternating percentages between grow and flower @ ~ 60/40. During mid-flower to finish you also want deep blue (~410- 420) + far red ~( 630- 660) @ ~ 20% to enhance tric production.

Not accounting for these grow cycle variables is why LEDs fall short of their promise. A separate light for Indicas and Sats, perhaps? Unfortunately not. Many, if not most seeds, are hybrids. Offering 3 different lights can be daunting for a small start up.

Unless you can figure out how to compensate for all these variables (several clearly marked toggle switches) I'm afraid you won't be pushing the envelop much. You might be able to configure a 2-3 way toggle switch that runs the appropriate percentage of R/B bulbs, with say up for Veg and down for Flower, but you will probably need 2 separate o/o toggles for this, plus one more for the mid flower adding of deep blues/far reds. I don't think this is overly complicated, BUT, it adds parts and labor= higher cost

As I mentioned, I would be willing to do an A/B versus my HO T 5 using aquarium bulbs

Wishing you the best!

 

[maxpesh]

One problem with a 'one light fits all' design approach is Sats/Indicas are grown in different parts of the world: Sats close to the equator, Indicas the opposite. They are genetically predisposed to different grow cycles and use different percentages of spectrums.

However, a good general ratio of R/G/B/: G is a constant ~ 10% (helps R/B absorption) with R/B alternating percentages between grow and flower @ ~ 60/40. During mid-flower to finish you also want deep blue (~410- 420) + far red ~( 630- 660) @ ~ 20% to enhance tric production.

Not accounting for these grow cycle variables is why LEDs fall short of their promise. A separate light for Indicas and Sats, perhaps? Unfortunately not. Many, if not most seeds, are hybrids. Offering 3 different lights can be daunting for a small start up.

Unless you can figure out how to compensate for all these variables (several clearly marked toggle switches) I'm afraid you won't be pushing the envelop much. You might be able to configure a 2-3 way toggle switch that runs the appropriate percentage of R/B bulbs, with say up for Veg and down for Flower, but you will probably need 2 separate o/o toggles for this, plus one more for the mid flower adding of deep blues/far reds. I don't think this is overly complicated, BUT, it adds parts and labor= higher cost

As I mentioned, I would be willing to do an A/B versus my HO T 5 using aquarium bulbs

Wishing you the best!

Wishing you all the best and merry xmas

 

[Endur0xX]

I thought you were making the light yourself... are you getting them from the same manufacturer than FERO? Are they going to be similar frame? Because his lights are fairly cheap. I think I will look into getting 100 of them and start my own LED company as well. I always wonder why RIU would let you advertise like this while banning other companies for trying to sell their light by making grow journals. I respected the fact that you were making them yourself and all but now I realise you will be just like any other companies importing cheap lights from china to make a quick buck. I don't see your company being any different than the others. That said more competition is good for the consummer. I hope it works out for you and I hope that the spectrums you chose will make your light stand alone. Anyway, I look forward to see it in action.

 

[maxpesh]

I thought you were making the light yourself... are you getting them from the same manufacturer than FERO? Are they going to be similar frame? Because his lights are fairly cheap. I think I will look into getting 100 of them and start my own LED company as well. I always wonder why RIU would let you advertise like this while banning other companies for trying to sell their light by making grow journals. I respected the fact that you were making them yourself and all but now I realise you will be just like any other companies importing cheap lights from china to make a quick buck. I don't see your company being any different than the others. That said more competition is good for the consummer. I hope it works out for you and I hope that the spectrums you chose will make your light stand alone. Anyway, I look forward to see it in action.

Sorry but I don't know who FERO is ? As for advertising, I have never at anytime mentioned the name of the company, I started this thread to get a feel for what people wanted or felt were being let down by, this is now blatantly obvious to me, over pricing for products being designed from incomplete research and not doing what they say on the tin. Lastly the lights are by no means the cheap chinese copies of cree and bridgelux etc. These are all genuine diodes, they will be built to MY specification born out of real research and thousands of hours study with advise from real plant biologists, not just someone who read that "NASA can grow lettuce from red and blue led's". Anyway have a great new year

 

[corners]

Great idea you have there ! T5 outputs are normally 70 - 104 Lm/watt and as you know shine in all directions hence the need for reflectors so like all traditional light sources they loose efficiency through reflection, but I do like the T5's though. Another advantage of course is the lifespan of the led's (properly cooled of course). If I am to go forward with the 275watt veg model it will easily cover a 4ft x 4ft area (the flowering model 275watt 3ft x3ft). Prices are not finalised yet (I'm hoping for $550-$600) but over the lifespan they will work out cheaper especially with the electricity used. Many thanks for your thoughts and I will let you know when all is ready for lift off. Cheers
P.S. Sorry, I Promise you I'm not having a go but just worked out electrical costs on 18hrs day @ 15cents Kwh for 10 years
The Veg led fixture 2600 dollars, T5- 4200 dollars plus replacement bulbs and 16 square ft as opposed to 8 for the T5's. However, just like anything in life, we should all do what works out best for ourselves when it comes to gardening.

I think one issue people have with accepting the whole"it can save you money over ten years" is most people dont want to wait ten years to see those kinds of savings.We live in a what have you done for me lately world, and what can you show me now. I think in a few years led prices will get even lower making the upfront cost now, not recoverable later. Kind of like spending $4000 on a pc today, only to have it be worth $1500 after a year or 2. Leds seem to be on pace with moores law like computer chips. Shrinking and increasing in size and efficiency, while cost shrinks.

That said, id like to try a higher wattage led. I have a 400 and a 600 hps.Batwing and a ac hood. I also have a 12 watt led from advanced led.Wanted higher wattage one, but price stopped me.

 

[corners]

Very interesting read....I have been trying to research led lights myself and I have found 1 company that seems to know what is going on. I am doing market research on wether or not I can grow in a state where it is legal. The reason I am thinking about led is 3 reasons heat, power consumption,and the amount of wiring IE circuit breakers to grow in a 1500 sq foot foot print. There is going to be alot of wiring and I can put more led lights on a circuit than I can with typical lighting. I am an outdoor grower used to making a 3 1/2 pound average on my plants. Going indoors is going to be a learning curve but I can manage. What is holding me back with led's is the cost of a 500 watt led is $1300. I know the power savings alone will pay for themselves let alone the cost of cooling the building down. It would be nice if it the light would be the only 1 I need to veg and flower. If I did my math right I would need 40 lights and with typical lighting my power bill will be a monster. For this to work I need to make 5oz's per plant wich can be done if you do not crowd the plants together. Hopefully in the next 2 years led's will become the norm and the prices will go down. If I can find a led that would benifit me I would buy them right now but, I also want a proven system as well as everyone else. Sounds like you are on the right track with your heat sink and fans to make it a unit that will last.

Theres not much in savings with power cost when talking about the light. 500 watts is 500 watts,like cfl's. Now, saving on cooling makes sense,which can add up fast, as diffrent lights give off diffrent heat.

If you want anything near 3.5 lb's, id stay clear of led's for now and defintly load up on some 1000 hp's or dual 600w. Leds just dont have the power with light penetration to give you that much weight yet.I think most led user and makers will at least be honest about that. Most will agree they work wonders for veg, or small time flowering,but not if you want donkey dick colas.

 

[maxpesh]

Theres not much in savings with power cost when talking about the light. 500 watts is 500 watts,like cfl's. Now, saving on cooling makes sense,which can add up fast, as diffrent lights give off diffrent heat.

If you want anything near 3.5 lb's, id stay clear of led's for now and defintly load up on some 1000 hp's or dual 600w. Leds just dont have the power with light penetration to give you that much weight yet.I think most led user and makers will at least be honest about that. Most will agree they work wonders for veg, or small time flowering,but not if you want donkey dick colas.

Donkey dick cola's, haha lmao, yes for big flowering you need hps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for the moment ?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Nice thread you got going here max.....couple of ??'s
So you're going with Eshine to make your lights (looked at your protype pic)/4g plantbar...??
are you adding the gimmicky Uv leds???
Like the white leds---not too many i hope(filler spectrum/trace) and would only use 6000-6500k
And for gods sake use a current reg. PS....
We all wish for top bin leds/in your panel....but at this price, it's probably not gonna happen($4.5-5.00 per led). lol you already know this...
I am excited to see what you come up with....and I wish you much success..

 

[merkzilla]

Sounds really cool, would love to see a comparison between the prototype and a hps to see intensity and spectrum readings when its done. I think at this point people are starting to see where the market is eventually heading, and it's towards LED. The major bottleneck is the cost of the LED's it seems and scammers looking to make a quick buck. From there the sky is the limit, Imagine a draw power of 1000w under photosynthesis/flowering spectrum and years without having to change a bulb. I can't wait for when that finally becomes viable. Hopefully if your product does well, you'll be able to push the market towards being more serious about innovation and we'll get those 'donkey dick colas.'

 

[maxpesh]

Lots of speculations, but as I said earlier on in the thread, I do not wish to push too much on RIU. Let's just see what happens with the first grow which WILL happen soon. Then comes the proof. I can't say much more ?

 

[maxpesh]

Nice thread you got going here max.....couple of ??'s
So you're going with Eshine to make your lights (looked at your protype pic)/4g plantbar...??
are you adding the gimmicky Uv leds???
Like the white leds---not too many i hope(filler spectrum/trace) and would only use 6000-6500k
And for gods sake use a current reg. PS....
We all wish for top bin leds/in your panel....but at this price, it's probably not gonna happen($4.5-5.00 per led). lol you already know this...
I am excited to see what you come up with....and I wish you much success..

Did you read any of the links I placed in this thread ? 6000-6500K ????? Current Reg ?????? Why the negativity ?? I only want to do something good! You sound as if you have been ripped off by an led company and are unhappy about this. I will do my part and invoke real competition to bring down prices and give a far superior product. I will (like I have repeated many times) be using top quality diodes and heatsinks and cases and fans. Top bin leds are a lot less expensive in bulk. 6000k ,170lm/watt. I'm not going to be using them anyway.

 

[beenthere]

Lots of speculations, but as I said earlier on in the thread, I do not wish to push too much on RIU. Let's just see what happens with the first grow which WILL happen soon. Then comes the proof. I can't say much more ?

I've been following your thread from the start and think you may be on to something Max.
For me and I'm sure many other growers, I could care less how much your diodes cost, where you bought them or what your board looks like. If your 8 band 260 watt LED lights can produce big dense colas comparable to or close to a 600 watt HPS then your product will be at the very top of the grow light food chain and will speak for itself.

Personally, I hope you hit it out of the park my friend, we can all benefit the rewards of more cost efficient lighting, good luck for all of us!

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Did you read any of the links I placed in this thread ? 6000-6500K ????? Current Reg ?????? Why the negativity ?? I only want to do something good! You sound as if you have been ripped off by an led company and are unhappy about this. I will do my part and invoke real competition to bring down prices and give a far superior product. I will (like I have repeated many times) be using top quality diodes and heatsinks and cases and fans. Top bin leds are a lot less expensive in bulk. 6000k ,170lm/watt. I'm not going to be using them anyway.

No, not trying to be negative....Sorry if you feel that way. Just trying to pick your brain(maybe a little to excited). Haven't grown with led yet(so not ripped off), and i'm mainly a CMH grower indoors. Current regulated power supply is what I "suggested" to use due to the fact that they adjust the "current" appropriately if an led burns out and won't overdrive the leds that are still lit, causing premature dimming. Also IMO white leds are a filler for a unbalanced light spectrum, if you use a large percentage of them your basically copying HID lighting (non tailored) by pushing huge lumen output with low par absorption.
If your serious about using only top bin leds in your panel and for the price you suggested, I'll be interested in buying one (seriously). Till then I will restate what i said previously ^^^ " I'm excited to see what you come up with....and wish you much success".

Peace...

ps: when I mean "top bin" i'm talking about cree/bridgelux/osram/luxem....not epistar/optotech/other crappy asian leds...