watchhowIdoit
New Member
But where does the 10-15% of mass go? Only thing I can think of is folks dry water cured bud to a lower moisture percentage. What other way can plant material lose mass short of removing plant material itself......
Does anyone water cure there bud?
- Thread starter farmersmurf
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cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Into the water!
You're making "tea" or "soup" while water-curing. All that yellow/brown coloration in the "tea" is a marker for solubles (salts, sugars, etc.) getting leached out that would otherwise be weight in air-cured bud.
Think of two tea bags: one fresh, the other steeped thrice to a fare-thee-well, then air-dried. the used one will be lighter. cn
stlmatt
Active Member
the water works as an osomsis system, The water pulls out more of the salts, fertilizers, chorophyll than are drying/curing. this is why the final product will weigh less than that of air dryed/cured. This is why you must change the water every day, and you should use RO water (or water with very low PPM) for the best results, as once the water and plant material have the same amount of salts and have equalized the water stops pulling these items from the plant material. In the end you have removed more bad stuff from the bud in 7 days of water curing than you could air curing for months.
Stlmatt
watchhowIdoit
New Member
There are no salts or fertilizers in the plant material. And I understand the process. Still thats alot of weight to assign to whats washed down the sink in the water. Possible I guess but still seems like an awful lot.....
stlmatt
Active Member
Plants will retain salts/fertilizer (one in the same) This is the same reason so many people flush their plants the last two weeks as to flush excess salts/fertilizers from the soil and allow the plants to use up the stored salts/fertilizers they have. If you have ever smoked an over fertilzed bud then you would know, as they pop, crackel and have a fertilizer like taste. The basic idea behind water curing is to remove as much unwanted material from the bud as possiable, yet retain all the trichomes as they are not water soluble.
Stlmatt
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
I think that's a scam or just bullshit. I've smoked unflushed bud and it tasted fine. I've tried over and over and to find any information that substantiates the claim that flowers/leaves contain fertilizers or salts. I can't find ANYTHING to corroberate that line of shit that I've only seen repeated on MJ growing forums. If anyone has any university studies or any scientific evidence that this is true, please, please send it to me. It doesn't seem to be an issue on any other gardening websites, it doesn't seem to be true about any other fruits/vegetables and only seems to be repeated here.
I haven't run my own scientific studies to determine if it's true, but I have smoke unflushed bud against flushed bud, and it did not pop or crackle or have any other negative effects. After a proper drying/curing the shit was the same.
I haven't run my own scientific studies to determine if it's true, but I have smoke unflushed bud against flushed bud, and it did not pop or crackle or have any other negative effects. After a proper drying/curing the shit was the same.
stlmatt
Active Member
I am not saying that flushing needs to be done, as i dont flush my plants and I have no issue with my buds (but I do O.G soil grows), but I have smoked buds that were over fertilized (chemical type fertilizer) and or under cured (air dried/cured) and it will effect taste and how it burns. If you quick dry some buds after harvest and smoke those you can often taste the build up of fertilzer and chorophyll (harsh), this is why we cure our buds as to release the build up of chorophyll and other unwanted biproducts that are in the plant. Air curing is done by slowing the evaporation process and water curing is done by osmosis. (water curing does this better than air curing and its the quickest method)
I have water cured bud as well as air dried/cured lots of bud and the fact is the water curing removes more unwanted material from the buds, hints the 15% return on your wet weight, vs a 25% return on air dried/cured buds. Its also a smoother smoke with less/no smell and taste as compared to air method.
Like I said before, water curing has its place if your looking for stealthy smoke and/or pefer to have a really clean/smooth smoke. Its also a good way to get good smokable buds in 7-10 days vs weeks/months of air curing.
I like to water cure a few O's just to have so I can smoke in public and not have to worry about leo or anyone else getting wind of it
Stlmatt
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Laserbrn, it doesn't need to be unconsumed ferts. Plant material is full of soluble saccharides and other small-to-medium molecules that can be washed out. Simple sugars are imo the #1 source of harshness in green smoke. cn
potpimp
Sector 5 Moderator
One thing that really appeals to me is the lack of smell. I can't honestly think of any times when I've thought I wished it smelled stronger in the bag or up in smoke but there are plenty of times I have been carrying a little bag on me and could smell it loud and clear. Also, when smoking in your house or room it is very hard to get the smell out once it's done.
I see where watchhowidoit is coming from and it's a legit question. According to the law of conservation of mass, that 10% - 15% has to go somewhere; it can't just disappear. I can't quantify the ratio of chlorophyll in a bud but 10% - 15% does not seem to be unreasonable. We all know and hate that damn "hay" taste from air dried / cured bud and if you get the same about of THC with these other benefits, I'm all for it.
I would like to suggest that a few people that are growing off some plants in the near future do both and give us a smoke report - side by side. That seems like the only logical way to come to a conclusion on this, by actual empirical observation. I had not planned to start flowering before about the middle of Feb or I would jump all over this.
I see where watchhowidoit is coming from and it's a legit question. According to the law of conservation of mass, that 10% - 15% has to go somewhere; it can't just disappear. I can't quantify the ratio of chlorophyll in a bud but 10% - 15% does not seem to be unreasonable. We all know and hate that damn "hay" taste from air dried / cured bud and if you get the same about of THC with these other benefits, I'm all for it.
I would like to suggest that a few people that are growing off some plants in the near future do both and give us a smoke report - side by side. That seems like the only logical way to come to a conclusion on this, by actual empirical observation. I had not planned to start flowering before about the middle of Feb or I would jump all over this.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
If you cure properly then the sugars are fermented and broken down.
And I am sorry Matt but plants do not store salts/ferts. And chemical or natural in a soil grow they are both broken down to very like elements before the plant uptakes them through the roots.
And I am sorry Matt but plants do not store salts/ferts. And chemical or natural in a soil grow they are both broken down to very like elements before the plant uptakes them through the roots.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
And Potpimp I am going to be doing some pre-weighed buds in the next few days both ways when I harvest a plant. I do have the means to have the final dryed product of both tested for moisture content. To confirm my thoughts on the weight loss.
As far as taste testing I have already been there. And agree with the general consensus and reasoning behind the practice.
As far as taste testing I have already been there. And agree with the general consensus and reasoning behind the practice.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
Also I dont think osmosis is the correct term for the process. Its more of a simple filtering or rinsing process. Osmosis requires at least kinetic energy to occur......
potpimp
Sector 5 Moderator
Awesome; you are the man!!
Grumpy'
Active Member
I tried a water cure a while back. Was an unknown strain. The smoke was totally different. There wasn't really harshness to the air cured bud, but the water cured (although nasty looking comparatively) was alot smoother. Cleaner burning and tasting. Very stealthy smoke. Yu can literally smoke it in a crowd and noone will think its other than a cigarette (and that's only cause you are smoking, not due to smell).
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
The only thing is it doesn't actually remove the chlorophyll, that's why watercured bud tastes slightly "minty" and hashy.
Chlorophyll is broken down in an air dried bud is because the plant is still alive even after chopping consuming sugars and breaking down chlorophyll, etc. but with a watercure because you quick dry it afterwards it never has that chance.
Just a little FYI for accuracy
Chlorophyll is broken down in an air dried bud is because the plant is still alive even after chopping consuming sugars and breaking down chlorophyll, etc. but with a watercure because you quick dry it afterwards it never has that chance.
Just a little FYI for accuracy
if u have a harsh weed water cure is great, if you have a great tasteing fruity bud, i would hang it.
I am water cuering some RASPBERRY COUGH (smells/taste fruity) so I will see how much it adfects the taste, as for potancy Raspberry cough is 22% thc, so it is allready powerful,
in the bottom of my Mason jar is so much TRICROMEs, I am not draining all the water out because i want to keep my tricomes.
I am water cuering some RASPBERRY COUGH (smells/taste fruity) so I will see how much it adfects the taste, as for potancy Raspberry cough is 22% thc, so it is allready powerful,
in the bottom of my Mason jar is so much TRICROMEs, I am not draining all the water out because i want to keep my tricomes.
Yep you never had unflushed/over ferilized weed. the shit pops, as the unmatbleized salts ignite, and it feels like a flame thower on your thorte, leaves a blackes ash instend of a gray ash. When you have some you will know I get my unflushed bud from the Compassion club for only $400 oz, Gotta love hydro... LOL
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Did you miss a horticulture lesson or something? Plants dont store unmetabolised nutrients (or any metabolised either) in their flowers. Flowers are a sink, leaves are a store.
The popping weed is weed that is dried too quickly before starches (ie. plant sugars) have been broken down by the plant consuming them. Remember the plant doesn't "die" immediately after you cut its roots off, infact it won't be "dead" until it's fully cured.
Its how plants work, flushing has no basis is science. Again, why do tomato farmers not flush their plants? They work basically the same, just our flowers don't have petals.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
I flush in hydro, I don't really bother in soil. Even then, I only flush if the plants are still really really green when the buds have matured fully and ripened.
It's not salts and fertilizer in your plants. Your plants don't take up "fertilizer" although they can take up some salts, it's not the salts that are causing the smoking experience that you are referring to. It's Chlorophyl, plain and simple.
In my experience if the plants are yellow and purple and dead when they are harvested, the smoke will be smooth and tasty, if they are really really green and healthy, you will get a lot of harshness from Chlorophyl and a good cure is the only solution.
When the plants begin their natural senesence, triggerered by the change in lights schedules it signals to the plant that reproduction needs to be the #1 priority. If your plants are focusing on building buds and don't have the nutrients available to continue the process in the rootzone they will get it from their own leaves. Drawing down these nutrients from the leaves slows photosynthesis and the production of chlorophyl. The main reason that people feel that flushing provides a better smoke is that it actually forces the plant into this position and being deprived of nutrients it will draw from within and will slow the production of chlorophyl.
The problem is that this is a trade off. Slowing photosynthesis also means slowing bud production as well in the final week(s). The plant is producing less and less energy from the lights and your ultimate yield will be less than if you didn't flush. Some people have a goal of harvesting green plants, and the reason is that the plants had EVERYTHING available to them for the entire grow and grew to their max potential, but often the smoke can a be a little harsh. I have found personally that I like to keep them green as long as possible and feed them less and less as flowering finishes up, but I don't do a full on "flush". It's kind of a balance thing for me. Too green (like the ones in my avatar....but look how BIG!) and they can be a little harsh, but rightly potent, and if they get too jacked up too early obviously yield is dimished greatly.
In conclusion, I understand the process, I see why people do it. It will cause your buds to be a little smoother smoke, but it's not to remove chemicals and/or salts from the plants themselves. It's really to slow the production of Chlorophyl, the enemy of smooth smoke.
This has been my experience and is based on what I've read of plant biology, other annuals and fruits, and from the smoke that has resulted from my years of growing. I am not a biologist and I don't proclaim that this information is 100% accurate. Take it for what you want, but this has been my experience and is where I currently sit after many hours of research on this subject. There's a lot of information and misinformation, but I have looked at tobacco plants, how they are grown and whether they flush, as well as any other fruits/vegetables (although not smoked so I specifically researched tobacco) and I this was the conclusion I've come to.
It's not salts and fertilizer in your plants. Your plants don't take up "fertilizer" although they can take up some salts, it's not the salts that are causing the smoking experience that you are referring to. It's Chlorophyl, plain and simple.
In my experience if the plants are yellow and purple and dead when they are harvested, the smoke will be smooth and tasty, if they are really really green and healthy, you will get a lot of harshness from Chlorophyl and a good cure is the only solution.
When the plants begin their natural senesence, triggerered by the change in lights schedules it signals to the plant that reproduction needs to be the #1 priority. If your plants are focusing on building buds and don't have the nutrients available to continue the process in the rootzone they will get it from their own leaves. Drawing down these nutrients from the leaves slows photosynthesis and the production of chlorophyl. The main reason that people feel that flushing provides a better smoke is that it actually forces the plant into this position and being deprived of nutrients it will draw from within and will slow the production of chlorophyl.
The problem is that this is a trade off. Slowing photosynthesis also means slowing bud production as well in the final week(s). The plant is producing less and less energy from the lights and your ultimate yield will be less than if you didn't flush. Some people have a goal of harvesting green plants, and the reason is that the plants had EVERYTHING available to them for the entire grow and grew to their max potential, but often the smoke can a be a little harsh. I have found personally that I like to keep them green as long as possible and feed them less and less as flowering finishes up, but I don't do a full on "flush". It's kind of a balance thing for me. Too green (like the ones in my avatar....but look how BIG!) and they can be a little harsh, but rightly potent, and if they get too jacked up too early obviously yield is dimished greatly.
In conclusion, I understand the process, I see why people do it. It will cause your buds to be a little smoother smoke, but it's not to remove chemicals and/or salts from the plants themselves. It's really to slow the production of Chlorophyl, the enemy of smooth smoke.
This has been my experience and is based on what I've read of plant biology, other annuals and fruits, and from the smoke that has resulted from my years of growing. I am not a biologist and I don't proclaim that this information is 100% accurate. Take it for what you want, but this has been my experience and is where I currently sit after many hours of research on this subject. There's a lot of information and misinformation, but I have looked at tobacco plants, how they are grown and whether they flush, as well as any other fruits/vegetables (although not smoked so I specifically researched tobacco) and I this was the conclusion I've come to.