Noob Starting Out :/

[RobotBoy]

Hey guys

Just joined up and I'm looking for advice on a small closet grow. Im thinking of getting a UFO led light (one of the good ones)

Ive been looking at autoflowering feminised seeds probably from Attiude Seed Bank. It looks like the best site so far.

Any recomendations to what I should use/grow?

 

[Cavalry]

How much space to grow do you have?

 

[RobotBoy]

Anything really. Havent built the closet yet lol Im thinking of 4 plants at a time.

 

[wayno30]

get a big light bigger the better

 

[Gastanker]

I have yet to see a UFO complete a full grow. If you want to go LED get at least a true 120w (often marketed at 250w+) - these should cost you $300+ for a decent one. Or go with a 400/600w HID or CFLs.

I would recommend not going with autos - you can run any seed 12/12 from start and maintain small plants, you'll hit the same yield with the regular seeds but using only 12 hrs of light versus 18-24 for the autos.

Here is what I did with CFLs in a small closet. You could easily do the same with a 400w HID or a good 100+ true watt LED unit - a single 90w UFO will not work.

I was pulling an oz a week with 388w of CFL here - First CFL Grow - Help appreciated

Keep them small! CFLs, LEDS, and smaller HIDs don't do nearly as well with large plants unless you keep a clean scrog or LST. I started flowering at this size -

Dropping bulb between plants maximizes plant absorption without the loss of restrike like you would have with a reflector. I tried to cover the canopy in smaller bulbs and submerge larger bulbs between plants.

I would yield ~ 1oz per plant. With 6 in full flower at a time and two others just rotating into the flower box I was able to harvest a plant per week.

This took place in a 2x3x3.5' area of a small closet with regular seeds. ​

 

[matthebrute]

+ rep for taking your first step (gathering information before starting)

to better help you can you list some key components

1. dimensions of closet

2. budget

3. is this your house or someone elses (I.e parents or rental)

4. what do you have already?

5. how much do you plan on yeilding, autos are good for about 1 Oz (maybe more maybe less) per plant (this is a estimate and i know they are all different)

6. do plan on running a perpetual harvest (meaning do you want a flower room and a veg room and clone's running at same time so you can continue to rotate and not start the grow from scratch again)


first off i would say auto's are good and bad way to start off. they are good because they are fairly quick and short so they give you a little bit of hands on experience without having to deal with a 5-6 month grow. but the yeild isnt as great as it could be with a regular plant. if you plan on setting up a whole room remember you can control the amount of light and the veg > flower cycle with timers and this means you can grow your plants as big or small as you (or your room) see fit. with an auto its pretty much a "you get what you get" situation, meaning they will vegg>flower>bud when they want to. there are ways to controll them (so i hear) but for a first time grower you shouldnt concern yourself with that.

also, for this being your first time you may want to stick with the same strain (just a suggestion) this eliminates alot of variables that can happen when attempting to grow multiple strains (some strains like more nutes, you dont want to have to keep a nute chart for 4 different plants it would be much easier to be able to feed them the same dosages.

just some stuff to think about. let me know those 6 questions above and ill try and help more. and as far as LED goes, maybe try something like HPS or even for first round and see how that works, LED are really expensive and it would be shitty to dump all that money for a bad first attempt. thats just my suggestion

hope i could help ill be keeping an eye

Matt

 

[matthebrute]

check out this guys grow https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/320402-stelthys-600w-hps-project-new.html

he is only doing 1 plant but he has alot of details that are worth looking at. and it looks like he is going to yeild more off 1 plant than most peole do off 4 lol so he obviously knows what he is doing. not saying you should copy him but read his thread and take notes

I just started a experimental grow with CFL. i have spent 34$ so far. check out my journal in my Sig



Ps. do not use aluminum foil like Gastanker has in his room if you opt for a HPS light or any light that gives off a decent amount of heat (no offense Gastanker) it creates hot spots and can be bad, like lit my house on fire bad

 

[GreenRedneck]

Agree. Aluminum foil isn't ideal for a reflective grow chamber either. No matter what kind of light you chose, flat white reflects better.

 

[Gastanker]

I agree that aluminum foil is not as practical as white paint or as reflective as mylar - it however will not create hot spots and is in fact more reflective than white paint. I was a big hater until I did the tests myself with a PAR meter, and the hot spots burning plants is just silliness - I run 1kW HPS units and you CANNOT burn a plant with a dimple in tin foil just like you can't burn a plant with a dimpled aluminum hood nor a dimple in mylar.

And never use mylar without a completely opaque backing. Without being firmly affixed to an opaque backing light passes through mylar very easily - same applies to a slightly lesser degree with white paint.

 

[matthebrute]

just like you cannot burn a plant watering it with the lights on. the hot spots created are from constant heat heating up the foil (foil does not retain heat well but it absorbs it extremely well) causing certain areas to remain hot and produce more heat. baisicly what it does is heats up to a temp that is hot enough to burn the plants if they are close enough, just like you wouldnt want to put your light too close to the plants as it may burn them the foil will do the same. i wasnt stating that it isnt reflective just that it can and will get hot and if you put your plants too close to it it may burn them because it does hold the heat to a certain extent especially when the heat is being produced from a steady source (the light) the foil will cool down fast after you turn the light off and it will heat up just as fast and stay hot while the light is on.

either way i didnt chime in to debate the effectiveness of aluminum foil just kinda a warning so he burn his plants or house down. granted its probally not going to happen that dosent mean i can not happen

 

[matthebrute]

Agree. Aluminum foil isn't ideal for a reflective grow chamber either. No matter what kind of light you chose, flat white reflects better.

only reason i said HPS is because of the heat it procuses where LED produce verry little heat and so dont CFL. as far as the amount of each type of light that the foil reflects i have no idea and isnt my area of expertise.....wait i dont have an area of expertise

 

[Gastanker]

Burn a house down using aluminum foil as a reflector? Really?

Put aluminum foil in the oven at 400 degrees for 10 minutes. Take it out and let it cool for 10 seconds - now touch it. 10 seconds later and it will be cool. Grab an IR thermometer and take readings of a off white wall. Now place a piece of aluminum foil against the same wall and take the temp - the foil will actually be cooler. Will an off white wall burn a plant? It retains heat for a longer time than foil as well... I assume this would be the same with a white wall but I have no white wall to test against.

Again, I was a huge hater of foil and argued the same points. I ended up getting really frustrated on a fish tank forum trying to convince people that white paint and mylar was better, so I performed all of these tests and to my surprise foil actually works really well.

I tested 5 different surface types, titanium white paint, aluminum foil, dimpled polished aluminum, mylar, and plain white paper (the squares all fit into the reflector to create the same angle). They all reflect differently but in order of maximum mm PAR directly under the bulb it went polished aluminum, backed mylar, aluminum foil, white paint, white paper.





As well as the effects of backing and IR temps

Light in reflector:


Light with a piece of white paper on top:


Light with a sheet of mylar with no backing:


mylar with the same sheet of paper backing it:


Mylar is terrible with no backing. But backed by just a piece of white paper and no light comes through even though the light had no problem going through the paper.

Now white paint:

Tried to put it on nice and thick:



Not to great:



1/4 just paper, 1/4 with white paint, 1/4 with white paint and mylar, 1/4 with just mylar:



Notice along the edge of the mylar where it isn't flat up against the paper? Light goes through it and the paper. But when right up against backing nothing escapes.

/e I'm putting two more coats of white paint and will test again. I'm disappointed it didn't work better as I use white paint often.

Three thick coats of titanium white paint (one of the more reflective whites)



Compared to just the paper:



The two compared to mylar:



I guarantee you that it CANNOT happen - well unless you took 5+ 1kW lights and pointed them all at a perfectly smooth parabolic dish with a diameter of over 8' focusing all 5kW of light onto a single point, but chances are you wouldn't be doing this. I have tried to use aluminum foil to create a parabolic dish in order to burn a plant - nope, doesn't broadcast heat nearly as well as a simple clip on shop light reflector (like the one used above in the tests). A water droplet can burn a leaf but that is very very different.

Sorry, I realize this is not helpful to the OP. It just gets frustrating hearing rumors being circulated over and over again on this forum. If you don't have white paint or mylar then use foil - its much better than metallic wrapping paper and emergency blankets and most people have it around.

 

[matthebrute]

ok ok ok ok

 

[wayno30]

well...........................

 

[RobotBoy]

wow cheers for all the posts guys! al get replying now.

 

[RobotBoy]

+ rep for taking your first step (gathering information before starting)

to better help you can you list some key components

1. dimensions of closet

2. budget

3. is this your house or someone elses (I.e parents or rental)

4. what do you have already?

5. how much do you plan on yeilding, autos are good for about 1 Oz (maybe more maybe less) per plant (this is a estimate and i know they are all different)

6. do plan on running a perpetual harvest (meaning do you want a flower room and a veg room and clone's running at same time so you can continue to rotate and not start the grow from scratch again)


first off i would say auto's are good and bad way to start off. they are good because they are fairly quick and short so they give you a little bit of hands on experience without having to deal with a 5-6 month grow. but the yeild isnt as great as it could be with a regular plant. if you plan on setting up a whole room remember you can control the amount of light and the veg > flower cycle with timers and this means you can grow your plants as big or small as you (or your room) see fit. with an auto its pretty much a "you get what you get" situation, meaning they will vegg>flower>bud when they want to. there are ways to controll them (so i hear) but for a first time grower you shouldnt concern yourself with that.

also, for this being your first time you may want to stick with the same strain (just a suggestion) this eliminates alot of variables that can happen when attempting to grow multiple strains (some strains like more nutes, you dont want to have to keep a nute chart for 4 different plants it would be much easier to be able to feed them the same dosages.

just some stuff to think about. let me know those 6 questions above and ill try and help more. and as far as LED goes, maybe try something like HPS or even for first round and see how that works, LED are really expensive and it would be shitty to dump all that money for a bad first attempt. thats just my suggestion

hope i could help ill be keeping an eye

Matt

1. dimensions of closet
Unsure as I have not got the wood to build it yet.


2. budget
Around £200

3. is this your house or someone elses (I.e parents or rental)
Rented but the grow will be away from the house in the garage.

4. what do you have already?
Nothing :/

5. how much do you plan on yeilding, autos are good for about 1 Oz (maybe more maybe less) per plant (this is a estimate and i know they are all different)
The more the better

6. do plan on running a perpetual harvest (meaning do you want a flower room and a veg room and clone's running at same time so you can continue to rotate and not start the grow from scratch again)
This would be good. Hadnt thought about it yet.

 

[Undercover Cop]

I agree that aluminum foil is not as practical as white paint or as reflective as mylar - it however will not create hot spots and is in fact more reflective than white paint. I was a big hater until I did the tests myself with a PAR meter, and the hot spots burning plants is just silliness - I run 1kW HPS units and you CANNOT burn a plant with a dimple in tin foil just like you can't burn a plant with a dimpled aluminum hood nor a dimple in mylar.

And never use mylar without a completely opaque backing. Without being firmly affixed to an opaque backing light passes through mylar very easily - same applies to a slightly lesser degree with white paint.

I use mylar, and have noticed that you can actually see through it, like mirrored window Tint. What do you mean opaque backing... just a backing that doesnt allow light to pass? Ive been spray gluing it onto plywood and hardboard, Ive been amazed how bright my box is... are you saying it has to be against something like white pandafilm? clarify that abit, Im making my flowering room right now and dont want to pass up on something I could be doing different.

my nursery I just made --->

 

[matthebrute]

1. dimensions of closet
Unsure as I have not got the wood to build it yet.


2. budget
Around £200

3. is this your house or someone elses (I.e parents or rental)
Rented but the grow will be away from the house in the garage.

4. what do you have already?
Nothing :/

5. how much do you plan on yeilding, autos are good for about 1 Oz (maybe more maybe less) per plant (this is a estimate and i know they are all different)
The more the better

6. do plan on running a perpetual harvest (meaning do you want a flower room and a veg room and clone's running at same time so you can continue to rotate and not start the grow from scratch again)
This would be good. Hadnt thought about it yet.

ok well your budget isnt great around 300 USD. unless you want to grow with CFL you might have to come up with a lil more £

heres a link for a HPS light with conversion bulb http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-Ultimate-400w-HPS-&-MH-Grow-Light.asp

thats 1/2 your money right there. then if you plan on buying seeds from a bank look at spending around 50£ (i suggest a cheese strain feminized) only reason i suggest that strain is because from what i read it is an extremely potent and good strain. but either way fem seeds are around 10£ ea. oh and dont germ all your seeds at once i would order 4-5 and germ 2 to a time, you can always take clones later and it gives you something to fall back on in case something really shitty happens to your grow

stay away from autos as you might be dissapointed with your yeild (you might be able to get some freebie autos with your order, if so give em a try and see how you like)

after you buy the light and seeds your down to about 50£ but.

i would look around your house for some of the other stuff you will need for this grow so you can save some ££

lumber for room, you can frame your room out of 2x3 instead of 2x4 lumber this will save a few £.
for walls maybe some decently thick white plastic? this way you dont have to buy paint or plywood.
a oscilating fan around the house?
pots to grow in
soil/medium i use regular potting soil mixed with perilite and peat moss but i cant say that is the "best" medium
a timer
and nutes

you can pick up the other accesories as you go. (all your testers for PPM, PH , Humidity....blah blah (i dont use that stuff myself but most people say its important so i would have to agree with them))


the 400w light i posted above should be fine for 2-3 plants and if you take some clones you can get some CFL to vegg them with and if u decide to do a perpetual harvest CFL lights are fine for Veg stage so you can set up the veg room with them later on and keep the HPS for you flower room

IMO, get your light and seeds ordered then see what you got around the house to work with. to grow 2 plants u prob want about 1 ft per plant so 2x2(ft) area and i would go around 6ft tall so you can grow them ladies up tall for max yeild.

i heard smart pots were pretty good and fairly cheap but not sure on that you may want to look around. if not you can get some solo cups to start the first week or 2 in then transplant into a 1-2.5 gal pot then transfer one more time to a 5 gal pot/bucket

for nutes i use miracle grow, people on here hate on it but its not too bad for the money. i use the stuff you have to mix with water it comes in a crystal form (looks like gree/blue sugar) i use a 10-10-10 for vegg then switch to miracle grow bloom booster 10-52-10 for flower and it seems to work alright for me.

think i covered all the baisics, it really depends on how fancy you want to get. check out my sig to see my 34$ grow i started the other day

I am by no means a expert on this so please do not take my words as law. simply use them as a guide to research on your own and find out what is the best suite for your needs. there are lots of people on here and lots of bad advice, i try my best to give the best advice i can but i am still learning myself. as gastank proved me wrong on the whole aluminum foil thing lol.

anyways hope i could help
Matt

 

[matthebrute]

oh and your gonna want a exaust fan at the top of your room to vent out the heat, you can probally get away with a computer fan rigged up just to keep that air flowing out of the top where it gets the warmest.

if smell is and issue then you will prob need a carbon filter/scrubber of some sort or lots of air freshener, you van always vent out to a place where no one will smell it

 

[RobotBoy]

Wow thanks for all the help

So are LED's a total no go for beginners?