True HP Aero For 2011

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Hehe, still on the first plumbing connection to the accumulator? The pvc adaptor I got was only 49 cents in comparison, but the other adaptors needed still got the price to near 20 bucks. It gets easier from there, but sourcing parts, and especially envisioning all the plumbing connections is the hardest part of the build imo. Seeing how most JG adaptors are nearly 50% the cost if you buy 10 or more, I just got a good stock of everything. Figure It'll come in handy someday, or for my gen2 chamber if I ever do such a thing...
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
If??? I figured you were already in the planning stages of your Gen2?
LOL! I suppose my experiences with using this chamber will help me to gain insight on what I did right, and what could use improving, so perhaps in 6 months I'll have a better idea of what would be different in the gen2. As for now, I threw all I knew at this chamber, and adjusted the design by cost, and ease of build -which got me to the final design for this one I'm building now ;)
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Don't fret, you'll soon get the AA bug and wind up with some type of oilless compressor or coalescer sitting on your living room coffee table. I'm not a gambler, but this is a pretty sure bet.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Show us some build pics! Is it done?
Hehe, not quite, waiting on the silkscreen to arrive (possibly tomorrow) and I have one issue I'm hung up on. The solenoids are a bit heavy to just have hanging on the outside of my chamber by the JG line, not to mention they and the JG line running outside the chamber should be insulated (and hopefully soundproofed). The best idea I have is to mount 4x4x4 pvc electrical junction boxes on the chamber and place each solenoid in one, filling with some fiberglass insulation. Then I can use some slip on foam pipe insulation between each of these boxes, and run the JG line and solenoid wires inside it like an insulated conduit. The issue is that these boxes are about $18 bucks a piece, and I'd need 8. It doesn't make sense to pay more for that than the whole chamber cost, so I am hoping to find something to improvise, such as a square tupperware container or something of the sort. I can spray paint the tupperware if need be. Also, measuring all of the solenoids and JG connectors, it would seem I really need the box to be a minimum of 4.5 inches deep, so I would likely have to use the next size junction box up (6x6x6), and those are even pricier. If anhyone has any ideas, let me know. I've also considered using pvc rain gutter screwed on the chamber sideways as a sort of coving to cover the solenoids and lines, but none was quite deep enough. I'll try to upload a couple more pics of what's been done since the last update tin a few hours. I am finishing up the last bits on the "control center bin" right now.

Don't fret, you'll soon get the AA bug and wind up with some type of oilless compressor or coalescer sitting on your living room coffee table. I'm not a gambler, but this is a pretty sure bet.
I don't disagree at all, matter of fact I have kept in mind the possibility of making this setup air atomized aero in the future. I think I should get at least one good run in with the hydraulics to start. The good news is if I do make the switch, all I got for the hydraulics will still be used in AA, so I'll just need to add on in that case...

Today I bought a $20 wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer. The outdoor sending unit had a wired probe I can place in the chamber, and I will mount the base station under the cover of my deck roof. This way I can track the pod temps vs ambient outside air temps. I'll do it for a day or so, then once the misting is working I will montior how much pulldown the mist has on the pod temps. A nice feature of the unit is it keeps track of the minimum and maximum temps for the last 24 hours. So at the end of the day, I'll know those absolute numbers without having to have my eye on the readings all day and night... http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Weather-Wireless-Outdoor-Thermometer/dp/B004SP295C It's not very high quality, and I'll probably trade it in for something more accurate, but it will help me understand what's going on well enough for now.
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
If anhyone has any ideas, let me know.
I think your cheapest route is tupperware or generic storage bins.

It was mentioned earlier in your thread that some were having trouble germinating in aero. Here is a pic of a seedling with root hairs in an air atomized Propagator/Germinator. Don't get too excited, its only spinach.
 

Attachments

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Alright, Popeye- we all know what that's code word for.. hehe kidding...

So, is there any fuzz below the puck too?
The tap barely came through this morning. The hairs on the underside are very short at this point, but they are there. I am currently over saturating to maintain humidity in the humidome and moisture in germination areas. Hope you can see well enough in the photo.

BTW, Spinach keeps me regular...
 

Attachments

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Well guys- I just completed the control center! Was gonna pressurize my accumulator to 108psi, and set the pressure switch, pressure regulator, and pressure release valves. Ok gonna shoot some pics!
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Okay, as mentioned before, I just finished the control center up. I still have to set the previously mentioned components tomorrow after I pressurize the accumulator, but otherwise it's good to go! (Still have some minor work on the mist chamber).

Here's the unassuming exterior, designed to be on a deck in the elements just like where I'll have it, while keeping everything inside nice and dry. If anything were to spring a leak inside, it will quickly drain out through the bottom. Notice in the front is the main lead wires that will run to the solenoids, and the bulkhead for the regulated output of the mist-line. I included a side shot to show the cord which powers the 12v trickle charger- keeping my deep cycle battery topped off. As a "smart charger" it's designed to stay connected to the battery indefinitely without overcharging. Bonus was that the charger is also waterproof and made to withstand the outdoors even in rain.
IMG_0741.jpgIMG_0742.jpg


So, here's what's inside, but first, a formal introduction... Anyone who's ever read Cavadge's thread might notice something vaguely familiar... :D
IMG_0744.jpg

Ok, now that we've taken care of the intruduction, let's move on to the rest of Mister Aloha's insides...

I got these on/off switches at Radio Shack, and there's no need to label on/off, because although the camera flash washed it out a bit, the switches have a bright led light in them, which turns green when in the on position, and red in the off position... I turned one on, and one off so you might be able to see the difference. I thought these were a good idea because I've read too many times people messing up their grow by accidentally forgetting to flip a switch after servicing something, and they come back to wilted plants. Hopefully the lights will make it quite noticeable. That's the ATC 422 Flip-Flop timer in the middle. What's cool about it are those little red lights to the right of each setting dial (on period dial and off period dial). They begin flashing faster and faster in a countdown to let you know the solenoids are about to fire.


IMG_0745.jpg


(I have the accumulator out because I need to charge it... Also, the cover is off the pressure switch as I still need to set it.)
Those with discerning eyes may notice the center board is slightly off center, no- it wasn't all the wine I was drinking when I was putting it together either... I decided to give the accumulator extra room, as I plan to wrap it with fiberglass batting, and a layer of reflectix to try to keep it insulated. Hopefully it will cool off at night, and spray that cooler water during the hot daylight hours.
IMG_0743.jpgIMG_0746.jpg

I put the center board on a hinge, for easy access should I need to get to anything under it. The pressure release valve is located under here and in a way that it lays down most of the time, but can be swiveled upright for setting changes. Obviously because all the cords and lines have to be a bit longer and unattached, thay aren't as perfectly clean and mounted as I would have liked them to be, but that's the price for functionality. You'll notice an electrical outlet in the back. I just wired it to the extension cord that leads to the outside. I have the trickle charger plugged in, and an extra outlet for whatever else I might need. (Also bought a led touch light, so I can see everything conveniently at night, but have yet to mount it.)

IMG_0747.jpg

If you can see in this not very close up picture, I have all the valves located in one convenient location. I have them so I can isolate the accumulator, one to recirculate the pump's outlet right back to the res (for air purging the filter) and one to turn off the flow to the pressure regulator/misters. By using various combinations of open and closed valves, I can empty the accumulator right back into the res (this line going back to the lid of the res is also connected to the output of the Pressure release valve should it ever blow. Again, as a safety precaution, I have it so during normal operation, all of the valve levers are pointing in the same directions- so a quick glance makes sure I have left them in the right positions for normal operation after servicing. I didn't bother incorporating a manual pump ON button (green light on the switch means auto mode, red light means off). The reason why is that by controlling the valves to isolate the accumulator and open the return to res line, the pressure drop should cause the pressure switch to turn the pump on. I copied Cavadge's idea in mounting the pump to a piece of plywood, and used some double stick tape to mount 4 neoprene pucks to the bottom as a vibration isolating/sound deadening measure. Since the board was quite close between the battery and front wall, I took the extra measure of lining the edge of that board with a sticky strip of closed cell weatherstripping foam. There happens to be enough extra space on the floor for a few various bottles of nutes/ph adjusters, etc.

IMG_0748.jpg


Here are a couple pics from yesterday I hadn't posted yet, of the root chamber lid as I was working on it.


IMG_0740.jpgIMG_0738.jpgIMG_0739.jpg



There are 8 sites, and due to the dual wall design, I had to get creative. What I did, after deciding to go with 2" netpots, is drill out 3" holes in the top layer, but only 2" holes in the bottom layer. I took a picture of a boo-boo too. I got overconfident and started drilling too fast- accidentally drilled all the way through the bottom layer with the 3" bit- that's why you see the patchwork. I just took one of the 3" cutouts, epoxied it over the hole, and redrilled it with the 2" bit after it dried. It's not exactly pretty- but no one will really ever see it. Anyway- the reason I went with this route with the netpots is so they are fully exposed to the mist on all sides, rather than sitting on top with the bottoms being only about flush with the lower wall of the lid. This created another issue as I was worried that in the rain, water would funnel down into the chamber and over soak it, not to mention it wasn't exactly pretty looking into the gap in the lid. So in the top 3" holes, I cut the bottom 2 inches off some 3" net pots, and dropped them in and snapped those netpot lids I was investigating on them. All I can say is it works, and I believe the netpot lids may help hold the cuttings upright until they root in the cubed rockwool, as well as help retain the moisture from when I am handwatering them as they get started.

Here's the final lid with netpots and also how the boo-boo came out after the fix...
IMG_0753.jpgIMG_0750.jpgIMG_0754.jpgIMG_0752.jpgIMG_0749.jpgIMG_0751.jpg



Well, that's it for now guys, any comments or suggestions are appreciated. I hope your all as happy about the way this is going as I am, and looks like I am not going to change the thread name like Mike said to "True HP-Aero for 2012" :shock: hehehe- that made me laugh man...
 

dickkhead

Active Member
:clap:
Okay, as mentioned before, I just finished the control center up. I still have to set the previously mentioned components tomorrow after I pressurize the accumulator, but otherwise it's good to go! (Still have some minor work on the mist chamber).

Here's the unassuming exterior, designed to be on a deck in the elements just like where I'll have it, while keeping everything inside nice and dry. If anything were to spring a leak inside, it will quickly drain out through the bottom. Notice in the front is the main lead wires that will run to the solenoids, and the bulkhead for the regulated output of the mist-line. I included a side shot to show the cord which powers the 12v trickle charger- keeping my deep cycle battery topped off. As a "smart charger" it's designed to stay connected to the battery indefinitely without overcharging. Bonus was that the charger is also waterproof and made to withstand the outdoors even in rain.
View attachment 1848202View attachment 1848206


So, here's what's inside, but first, a formal introduction... Anyone who's ever read Cavadge's thread might notice something vaguely familiar... :D
View attachment 1848207

Ok, now that we've taken care of the intruduction, let's move on to the rest of Mister Aloha's insides...

I got these on/off switches at Radio Shack, and there's no need to label on/off, because although the camera flash washed it out a bit, the switches have a bright led light in them, which turns green when in the on position, and red in the off position... I turned one on, and one off so you might be able to see the difference. I thought these were a good idea because I've read too many times people messing up their grow by accidentally forgetting to flip a switch after servicing something, and they come back to wilted plants. Hopefully the lights will make it quite noticeable. That's the ATC 422 Flip-Flop timer in the middle. What's cool about it are those little red lights to the right of each setting dial (on period dial and off period dial). They begin flashing faster and faster in a countdown to let you know the solenoids are about to fire.


View attachment 1848208


(I have the accumulator out because I thought about taking it down to the local gas station, but figured it very unlikely their compressors would be set to such high levels as 150psi either -will just have to wait till tomorrow... Also, the cover is off the pressure switch as I still need to set it.)
Those with discerning eyes may notice the center board is slightly off center, no- it wasn't all the wine I was drinking when I was putting it together either... I decided to give the accumulator extra room, as I plan to wrap it with fiberglass batting, and a layer of reflectix to try to keep it insulated. Hopefully it will cool off at night, and spray that cooler water during the hot daylight hours.
View attachment 1848204View attachment 1848205

I put the center board on a hinge, for easy access should I need to get to anything under it. The pressure release valve is located under here and in a way that it lays down most of the time, but can be swiveled upright for setting changes. Obviously because all the cords and lines have to be a bit longer and unattached, thay aren't as perfectly clean and mounted as I would have liked them to be, but that's the price for functionality. You'll notice an electrical outlet in the back. I just wired it to the extension cord that leads to the outside. I have the trickle charger plugged in, and an extra outlet for whatever else I might need. (Also bought a led touch light, so I can see everything conveniently at night, but have yet to mount it.)

View attachment 1848201

If you can see in this not very close up picture, I have all the valves located in one convenient location. I have them so I can isolate the accumulator, one to recirculate the pump's outlet right back to the res (for air purging the filter) and one to turn off the flow to the pressure regulator/misters. By using various combinations of open and closed valves, I can empty the accumulator right back into the res (this line going back to the lid of the res is also connected to the output of the Pressure release valve should it ever blow. Again, as a safety precaution, I have it so during normal operation, all of the valve levers are pointing in the same directions- so a quick glance makes sure I have left them in the right positions for normal operation after servicing. I didn't bother incorporating a manual pump ON button (green light on the switch means auto mode, red light means off). The reason why is that by controlling the valves to isolate the accumulator and open the return to res line, the pressure drop should cause the pressure switch to turn the pump on. I copied Cavadge's idea in mounting the pump to a piece of plywood, and used some double stick tape to mount 4 neoprene pucks to the bottom as a vibration isolating/sound deadening measure. Since the board was quite close between the battery and front wall, I took the extra measure of lining the edge of that board with a sticky strip of closed cell weatherstripping foam. There happens to be enough extra space on the floor for a few various bottles of nutes/ph adjusters, etc.

View attachment 1848199


Here are a couple pics from yesterday I hadn't posted yet, of the root chamber lid as I was working on it.


View attachment 1848203View attachment 1848200View attachment 1848198



There are 8 sites, and due to the dual wall design, I had to get creative. What I did, after deciding to go with 2" netpots, is drill out 3" holes in the top layer, but only 2" holes in the bottom layer. I took a picture of a boo-boo too. I got overconfident and started drilling too fast- accidentally drilled all the way through the bottom layer with the 3" bit- that's why you see the patchwork. I just took one of the 3" cutouts, epoxied it over the hole, and redrilled it with the 2" bit after it dried. It's not exactly pretty- but no one will really ever see it. Anyway- the reason I went with this route with the netpots is so they are fully exposed to the mist on all sides, rather than sitting on top with the bottoms being only about flush with the lower wall of the lid. This created another issue as I was worried that in the rain, water would funnel down into the chamber and over soak it, not to mention it wasn't exactly pretty looking into the gap in the lid. So in the top 3" holes, I cut the bottom 2 inches off some 3" net pots, and dropped them in and snapped those netpot lids I was investigating on them. All I can say is it works, and I believe the netpot lids may help hold the cuttings upright until they root in the cubed rockwool, as well as help retain the moisture from when I am handwatering them as they get started.

Here's the final lid with netpots and also how the boo-boo came out after the fix...
View attachment 1848257View attachment 1848256View attachment 1848255View attachment 1848258View attachment 1848254View attachment 1848253



Well, that's it for now guys, any comments or suggestions are appreciated. I hope your all as happy about the way this is going as I am, and looks like I am not going to change the thread name like Mike said to "True HP-Aero for 2012" :shock: hehehe- that made me laugh man...
nice work truly inspirational!!
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
:clap:
nice work truly inspirational!!
Thanks dickkhead- just passing on the flame. I remember when I was just reading aero threads and only wanting to do it, the only issue was all those threads were dead, so I guess it's nice to have a live place to have thoughts and questions answered... So man- when you gonna build yours!? :)
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Electrcity: I plug everything into a Vari-ac in order to maintain reasonably accurate 110 voltage, which fluctuates a lot here. All has been well until this morning. Since everything was humming along, I didn't check the plants first thing at lights on. An hour later.... alas, the lights weren't on! WTF? The outlet where the variac is plugged into also has an air pump plugged in. It was working, but nothing that was plugged into the Variac.

Of course the babies were wilted, except for the clone that was started in a SSSC. I turned the Variac dial down and heard some hum, so I slowly turned it up and it seems to be fine. Oxydation...? A good example of why DC is best, until/unless your battery dies. It's always something with HPA. Sigh.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Electrcity: I plug everything into a Vari-ac in order to maintain reasonably accurate 110 voltage, which fluctuates a lot here. All has been well until this morning. Since everything was humming along, I didn't check the plants first thing at lights on. An hour later.... alas, the lights weren't on! WTF? The outlet where the variac is plugged into also has an air pump plugged in. It was working, but nothing that was plugged into the Variac.

Of course the babies were wilted, except for the clone that was started in a SSSC. I turned the Variac dial down and heard some hum, so I slowly turned it up and it seems to be fine. Oxydation...? A good example of why DC is best, until/unless your battery dies. It's always something with HPA. Sigh.
Here's my smartass remark (jokingly)... If you had an accumulator, you could have ran off the residual pressure till you got the electricity sorted... To be honest, I feel besides ordering the few extra parts initially, that an accumulator setup is easier and much more reliable. I know it would sort of kill what defines you, and put an end to your quest for fuzzy roots sans accumulator- but why not try one? For 40 bucks at Lowe's (and a $15 solenoid from ebay) you can put one online and manually turn the pump on each day to charge it so you dont have to spend money on the pressure switch and pressure release valve. Since you're already so deep into aero, why not at leeast say you tried it and didnt like it if that's the case? Just what if it changes everything, and makes it so much easier on you? Isn't it worth the chance? The logic behind it would be that if every advice Atomizer has given you so far has helped, then why not trial more of it?

I'm really sorry you had another problem man, it's been a rough spell for you...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I hear ya, but I am determined to see this through first. Anyway, a UCP would have prevented this, too

Besides, have you seen my F & D plant? Couldn't be much simpler
.

Most people doing F & D and other forms of aero run their nutes way too hot, AND they recirculate. You have to recirculate in F & D, but every morning during Bloom I adjust pH as it increases > a full point every 24 hours. I also dump/replenish nutes once a week.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I hear ya, but I am determined to see this through first. Anyway, a UCP would have prevented this, too

Besides, have you seen my F & D plant? Couldn't be much simpler.

Most people doing F & D and other forms of aero run their nutes way too hot, AND they recirculate. You have to recirculate in F & D, but every morning during Bloom I adjust pH as it increases > a full point every 24 hours. I also dump/replenish nutes once a week.
Ok sir, I'm happy with whatever makes you happy, and I need to get my rig up and running so I can prove to myself that my beliefs are correct, otherwise I'm just another guy regurgitating what he's heard without truly knowing it from my own experiences ;) ...

I realized because of shut-off valves I had in place that I could set all the components pressures even without the accumulator inline. So I set my pressure relief valve to 150psi, My pressure switch cut in pressure to 110psi/cut out pressure 140psi, and my regulator to 100psi. I had one small leak on the threads between the regulator and it's gauge, so I re-teflon taped it and it leaked no more. I think my cheapo PRV is going to be a slight issue. I ran the pump behind a closed valve, and adjusted the PRV until the pressure came no greater than 150psi, unfortunately this PRV begins cracking around 120 psi, so it slowly dribbles pressure until it falls to 120 psi. It's quite obvious with no accumulator, as only a single drop falling out of the JG lines drops the pressure a few psi, but with the accumulator I don't think it will be too noticeable (pump might come on a couple times per day instead of once every few days. I will need to find a better quality one eventually though. One thing I noticed, was that on the top of it was stamped "75psi". I remember the specs saying it handled the pressures I needed, so I wonder if they shipped me the wrong one, or if that was just the factory preset cracking pressure?

All that's left is charging the accumulator and putting it online, and finishing up the rootchamber- home stretch, here I come!!! (And then the next hurdle is learning how to use this contraption to get the results I want)...

EEKS- the sky's turning purple and people are jogging on the street, yet another night of no sleep due to my obsessiveness...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Hope you're growing with bag seed until you dial it in.

Also, be a good idea to keep a DIY bubbler at the ready.
 
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