True HP Aero For 2011

[PetFlora]

Sentinel Timer FYI: As all my lessons, this one was learned the hard way. Let's begin with that for an expensive timer it sorely lacks a status button.

I have been struggling with wilted plants every morning, with little to no runoff. This I was blaming on the small DMfit filter clogging with a micro-colony (which it was) but I resolved that last week, by adding the irrigation filter inside the rez, but still awoke to extreme wilted plants. The roots were not getting fed during lights off.

3/4 plants have 'recovered' but the roots are mostly dried out, and totally dry every morning, meaning the roots have lost most of their ability to feed the plants. WTF?!

It occurred to me to review the directions, and there it is: It has 3 different on/off cycle choices, none of which displays (and again no status button to check all events. Well the timer can be set for DAY, NIGHT or 24 HOURS. It was set for DAY, meaning no feed cycles during lights off.

Hopefully, this is the last of the major issues that have ruined 2 grows. hth

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Too bad I had not made the connection, as I was aware the drt had day/night/24hr toggles. I researched about it because I thought you could set different timings for day and night, but that is even not the case, it's just so you can either have the timer working in whichever of the times you want- day/night or 24 hours. I really wish my atc timer had 2 seperate settings, one for day and one for lighter mistings at night. Only way around is to either buy a second atc timer or put the atc on a cheap 15 minute resoution timer that is set to cycle off a few times at night.

I am really sorry to hear about your problem petflora, but there is a silver lining at least- you are bound to have significantly better results starting today! And you don't even have to buy anything to get them... I know, you're probably too pissed to think in those terms, but really it's the truth.

 

[r0m30]

Been an interesting week and a half......

Here's a shot of the hot tub I hope to one day convert into a rig. Minus one of the sections, as I am using it for something else currently.

Wow, hot tub to pot tub! You should be able to grow trees it that.

TB,
It seems silly to me that my main concern at this point is whether the tap adapter coming out of the accumulator tank tapers from the 3/4" BSP into a 1/4" or 3/8" John Guest -> Swivel Branch Tee 1/4" or 3/8" x 3/4" NPTF x 1/4" or 3/8" John Guest, the NPTF goes to either a Piston Style Pressure Relief Valve, which has a port on it for a 1/4" NPTM pressure gauge, or the NPTF goes to a Dayton Pressure Relief Valve, then the end of the STB goes into another STB which has a 1/4" NPTF or M, which will have to be adapted, then a 1/4" NPTM pressure gauge.

I had the same issue you are having. I was able to fit a regular PVC (it's actually the same as NPT) 3/8 male to 1/2 female threaded reducing bushing in the Accumulator which now sizes the accumulator output to 1/2 NPT female. After that I purchased a 1/2 npt male to 1/2" JG male stem piece then I used a 1/2 J/G to 1/4" jG reducing adaptor to size it down once more.

The pvc adaptor I just mentioned is located at any hardware store (standard schedule 40)- and I remember tree farmer writing that his leaked, but he switched to a schedule 80 adaptor and it stopped leaking- it looks like this: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GF-PIPING-SYSTEMS-Reducer-Bushing-6MZ88.
And these 2 parts complete the transition:
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1662-male-stem-12-cts-x-12-npt.aspx (1/2 NPT male to 1/2 JG male)
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1627-reducing-union-12-cts-x-14-od.aspx (its 9 bucks, and the pic doesn't show the back side, but it is a 1/2 JG female to 1/4 JG female). These 3 mentioned parts will take the output of the accumulator down to 1/4" JG/PEX ready to pop your line into it.

If it makes you feel any better, this was by far the hardest thing to figure out about the plumbing.

I thought I posted this before, I too went through several iterations of connections when trying to graft the 3/4NPT plumbing fixtures (Accumulator and PRV) into the system. The lest expensive solution I could come up with was to use a 3/4 PVC threaded coupler attached to the 3/4 NPT then reduced to 1/4NPT using one of these (found locally at OSH) and finally a 1/4NPT to 1/4 push-fit JG adapter. Here is a picture of the PRV.

 

[mrflamboynt]

ahhh 666! had to get off that ###

 

[Mike Young]

My accumulator has a 1" port, that I used 2 pvc reducers on, without a drip to speak of. 100 psi isn't really that much.

Trichy, glad to see this getting under way. You're to the fun part now. I was so gung ho to get my system built, that I put almost no thought into how I was gonna nurture clones to get em ready to go into my system. Oops. What's worse, I will be leaving town for a week, and my current batch of clones will likely suffer, as I've been hand watering them. Shit, my moms are getting so big, I decided to throw the WW into my cabinet on 12/12. I still have a bigbud in the room in veg, that I guess I'll keep hacking at until I get this clone thing sorted.

So, what's your verdict on the nozzles? Are you just going to go ahead with em? I just don't get it. TF's youtube clip of his burst... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9xn2munwo&feature=player_embedded

I did not have the same results. I am confident that it was nothing to do with my system being up to par. I hit em with 100 psi, and got pretty lack-luster results.

Can't wait to see your progress. Hey, at least you acheived keeping your thread condensed, lol.

It might not be very big around, but at least it's short!

 

[PetFlora]

Too bad I had not made the connection, as I was aware the drt had day/night/24hr toggles. I researched about it because I thought you could set different timings for day and night, but that is even not the case, it's just so you can either have the timer working in whichever of the times you want- day/night or 24 hours. I really wish my atc timer had 2 seperate settings, one for day and one for lighter mistings at night. Only way around is to either buy a second atc timer or put the atc on a cheap 15 minute resoution timer that is set to cycle off a few times at night.

I am really sorry to hear about your problem petflora, but there is a silver lining at least- you are bound to have significantly better results starting today! And you don't even have to buy anything to get them... I know, you're probably too pissed to think in those terms, but really it's the truth.

Actually I am pumped. This should be the final major issue between me and awesome HPA grows. Had I not transferred some plants to F & D and Soil APs, I would have doubted my abilities. But those successes (while HPA was lagging) kept me thinking "What am I missing with HPA?" And now I know.

Yeah, I bought the Sentinel thing Day/Night meant I could set them separately. Fortunately, less frequent feedings is not that big a deal. In fact I find my F & D plants grow quite rigorously during lights out.

 

[foresakenlion]

I thought I posted this before, I too went through several iterations of connections when trying to graft the 3/4NPT plumbing fixtures (Accumulator and PRV) into the system. The lest expensive solution I could come up with was to use a 3/4 PVC threaded coupler attached to the 3/4 NPT then reduced to 1/4NPT using one of these (found locally at OSH) and finally a 1/4NPT to 1/4 push-fit JG adapter. Here is a picture of the PRV.
View attachment 1838087

No you totally did sir, I just blanked, so many pages, information overload, you know how it goes, taking notes from the beginning would have been the ideal situation but I simply didn't go into this thinking it was going to be such a serious thing, and I guess it isn't.

Well why didn't you say so TB? Now that I know that it's easy peasy, I guess you were trying to hint so I could discover it my self and find the reward within that feeling of accomplishment, so I understand why you did it like that, no hard feelings

r0m figured it out, but it's such an ugly solution really, considering there's poly/acetal tap adapters, you could get your tank hooked up way easier with those, but that last bit of run, and the actual pressure gauges and relief valve runs though are tricky going the JG way, I see you side stepped that brilliantly by simply electing to go 3/4 before the lines, you've got me thinking since I now have the power of knowing all these interchangable threads, perhaps there is a female female PVC couplers for the end of the swivel branch tees, to adjust the 3/8 or 1/4 into the needed 1/8 female NPT for the Ecologics emitters (Personal choice, belief in a tighter seal, those DIG type may actually be superior, mist tests need to be conducted.)

Anyway I'll go digging and update later.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Actually I am pumped. This should be the final major issue between me and awesome HPA grows. Had I not transferred some plants to F & D and Soil APs, I would have doubted my abilities. But those successes (while HPA was lagging) kept me thinking "What am I missing with HPA?" And now I know.

Yeah, I bought the Sentinel thing Day/Night meant I could set them separately. Fortunately, less frequent feedings is not that big a deal. In fact I find my F & D plants grow quite rigorously during lights out.

Well, it's a whole new ballgame for you now. Possibly what worked before may work better another way now that you'll have your timings figured out. I think that if and only if you have true hpa roots, then misting as little as possible (withing reason) is the key. At night this would mean less. If you don't have hpa root structure, then it seems the plants benefit from as much water as they can get - you just have to make sure it's well aererated. I think that's why soak-ponics or LPA guys tend to say they get better results with longer or even 24/7 misting.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

My accumulator has a 1" port, that I used 2 pvc reducers on, without a drip to speak of. 100 psi isn't really that much.

Trichy, glad to see this getting under way. You're to the fun part now. I was so gung ho to get my system built, that I put almost no thought into how I was gonna nurture clones to get em ready to go into my system. Oops. What's worse, I will be leaving town for a week, and my current batch of clones will likely suffer, as I've been hand watering them. Shit, my moms are getting so big, I decided to throw the WW into my cabinet on 12/12. I still have a bigbud in the room in veg, that I guess I'll keep hacking at until I get this clone thing sorted.

So, what's your verdict on the nozzles? Are you just going to go ahead with em? I just don't get it. TF's youtube clip of his burst... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9xn2munwo&feature=player_embedded

I did not have the same results. I am confident that it was nothing to do with my system being up to par. I hit em with 100 psi, and got pretty lack-luster results.

Can't wait to see your progress. Hey, at least you acheived keeping your thread condensed, lol.

It might not be very big around, but at least it's short!

Yes, I now see why condensed doesn't seem to happen in HPA- but this thread still has to power of accumulative knowledge . My mist looks somewhat like Tf's- but I beleieve they must have gone to shittier manufacturing methods, either that or both you and me are unlucky enough to have gotten all bad nozzles rather than the 10-20% TF reported. I believe some of mine are decent enough, and will bet that the pulsation from the pump doesn't allow them to develop as smooth of a mist pattern as an accumulator release, so my final verdict will be when the accumulator is online, but it seems to me that all of the impingement pins are not lined up with the stream from the orifice to properly atomize the mist in a regular pattern. I always seemed to have a line of coarse spray shooting off to one side or the other, and gently touching the pins doesn't seem to help, not to mention they would likely return to the former bad position anyway. I think you did test your nozzles with the PT online, correct?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

No you totally did sir, I just blanked, so many pages, information overload, you know how it goes, taking notes from the beginning would have been the ideal situation but I simply didn't go into this thinking it was going to be such a serious thing, and I guess it isn't.

Well why didn't you say so TB? Now that I know that it's easy peasy, I guess you were trying to hint so I could discover it my self and find the reward within that feeling of accomplishment, so I understand why you did it like that, no hard feelings

r0m figured it out, but it's such an ugly solution really, considering there's poly/acetal tap adapters, you could get your tank hooked up way easier with those, but that last bit of run, and the actual pressure gauges and relief valve runs though are tricky going the JG way, I see you side stepped that brilliantly by simply electing to go 3/4 before the lines, you've got me thinking since I now have the power of knowing all these interchangable threads, perhaps there is a female female PVC couplers for the end of the swivel branch tees, to adjust the 3/8 or 1/4 into the needed 1/8 female NPT for the Ecologics emitters (Personal choice, belief in a tighter seal, those DIG type may actually be superior, mist tests need to be conducted.)

Anyway I'll go digging and update later.

Glad you seem to have it sorted, or at least have the knowledge you need to go on. I still wonder, even if the dig nozzles are functioning better than the (possibly)bad batch of biocontrols, the question still stands if they are making a proper mist in the correct micron range... I don't think they were specifically designed or tested with higher pressures or to produce a mean 50 micron mist, and who knows how long their orifices will stand up to these pressures without soon eroding and enlarging which will deliver a coarser mist. I guess Mike is blazing the trail to find out for all of us. I don't know anything about the nozzles you picked out, but I do know that they need to produce the correct size mist at the pressures we need, and you also have to consider their throw and mist pattern so you can calculate the proper mist volume, while also providing adequate coverage to all your rootzones.

 

[foresakenlion]

Very true, also plants at different stages may require different things, therefore a 4' plant may require full size droplets as they contain groups of other smaller molecules, this might have to do with the scaling issue. What emitters are the best that's all up in the air, I think the proof is in the pudding and until there's a lot more people doing this Its going to be hard to gleam useful data.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Very true, also plants at different stages may require different things, therefore a 4' plant may require full size droplets as they contain groups of other smaller molecules, this might have to do with the scaling issue. What emitters are the best that's all up in the air, I think the proof is in the pudding and until there's a lot more people doing this Its going to be hard to gleam useful data.

I don't believe I've ever read anything reputable about a plant preferring different sized drops for each stage of growth. I think the goal is to create a mist size that bathes them with just the right amount of moisture while not formaing an oxygen barrier, and then that coaxes them into becoming fuzzy which increases the surface area exponentially. The plant will take what it needs from there. What scaling issue do you speak of? If your saying the roots get scale and mineral buildup I am sure they shed regularly just like the epithelial cells in your intestinal walls do.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Ok, guys, girls and aero enthusiasts- I finally began putting all of the pieces together today!!! It would seem I can finish the whole build either by tomorrow evening, or next weekend- barring any unforeseen circumstances.

Today I focused on the mundane task of modding the deck bin into a chamber. Here's what was in the cardboard box the bin came in: (my friend took the pics on his phone and they aren't the greatest, but there wasn't much interesting to show today anyway- tomorrow I will try to take some better ones).




As you can see, the pieces simply lock together in a matter of minutes, and the interior walls are riddled with ridges and strange patterns which present a slight obstacle when trying to make properly placed holes for the mist nozzles. This is about the only negative I found about this box, and otherwise it is going to look very nice and work rather well consdering being an aero chamber is probably the last thing rubbermaid had in mind for these bins- but it's ironic how rubbermaid always lends itself so well to hydroponics and aeroponics, and now HPA ... Good ol' rubbermaid...

One of the things I liked about the bins is that they are also dual wall construction on the bottom panel, and with a little mod-ing, the bottom panel can be great for collecting the effluent spray and directing it out of a drain hole. The bottom panel has some troughs that I decided to consider when making the draining system. They happened to be higher in the middle, and lower at the front and back, so I only had to drill holes at each end, knowing the water will drain towards them as gravity sorts things out. I was careful to only drill through the first layer of plastic and not through the bottom, which required some careful drilling due to the fact that in some areas the underside was practically touching the top layer, I am assuming due to the plastic mold process and to create additional structural integrity.



Next was to figure out how to drain the effluent out of the bottom panel after making it to capture the runoff. I decided to use one of the JG bulkheads and figured I could just pop in a length of 1/4' jg tube out the back leading into a collection container (thinking a 1 gallon plastic milk jug at this point). I will hang the jug on the outside of my deck railing a foot or so below. I want to collect the runoff so I can analyze it for clues of what the plants are taking up nute and waterwise, and if the jug ever happens to overflow at any point, it will just drip into the flowerbeds below without issue. The only problem with this is that the bulkheads have a nut that has to be tightened from the backside and also need a rear washer to prevent leaking. I carefully cut a small temporary access hole in the top of the bottom panel with a utility knife to allow me to install a rear washer and the nut from inside the panel. After the bulkhead is installed, I will use a bead of silicone caulk to seal it up again (I left one end of the cutout attached to make it easier). My deck where I'd like to run the chamber has a slight drainage pitch, lower on the end farthest from the house walls, and I want to place the chamber on the left side of the deck perpendicular to the house, so I figured the lowest point would be the right side of the chamber, and that is where I put the bulkhead drain. I deliberated over if I ought to include more than one bulkhead just incase this one became clogged, but I rationalized the runoff would be quite small, and since I was including a root barrier above- I figured it would act like a screen to prevent dead roots and debris from getting into the runoff. I also plan to run low level chlorine in my nutes, so I doubt any sort of algea or slime would ever grow enough to cause issue. I originally bought some round seals for the bulkheads, but they distorted when I tightened the nut down, so I ran to the hardware store and got some flat rubber washers. Here's what it all looked like as I was working on it:






I also created the holes and mounted the bulkheads in the sidewalls for each of the 8 misters, but hadn't taken any pictures of that today (I will tomorrow). All of the bulkheads are inserted on all of the sidewalls now. All that's left is to caulk the seams of the bin, and around the bulkheads and install the mist nozzles. Also have to plumb the solenoids and jg lines around the outside of the bin and wire the solenoids in- but then the chamber will be complete, and I'll just have to finish putting all of the pump accumulator, timer, battery, etc together. I purchased another same, but smaller size bin for all of these components and will run a small line of JG tubing from this smaller "control center bin" coming off the pressure regulator across to the root chamber bin, along with the power wires for the solenoids.

 

[foresakenlion]

Thank you TB, I now realize that if your PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE is 3/4" since BSP and NPT are interchangeable we can simply use the same TAP ADAPTER I've found to hook the ACCUMULATOR into the JOHN GUEST lines.

If I'm correct that you have just simplified the whole process as you can run 3/8 JG all the way up and through the ACCUMULATOR then use a 3/8 JG SWIVEL BRANCH TEE, a line, to the TAP ADAPTER and then directly to the PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE, the TEE would continue to the SOLENOID and onto the final line(s) w/ MISTERS.

 

[dickkhead]

ive been reading all of your post thank you for all the info! where can i order the best spray heads?

 

[dickkhead]

www.supremehydro.com claims to have it all dialed in.... using buckets, u can stack 2 or 3 on top of each other allowing up to 45" of depth (doubt bud roots would/could be that long) using lids they have designed for bucket stacking. buckets already plumbed for you.... they didnt specify which spray heads, size/type of tubing or fittings etc, that they are using. they said i would have to buy one if i want all that info. haha but OFCOURSE!... anyway they supply the pumps, hosing, timers, buckets, net pots, neoprene sleeves, nutes etc.... gonna have to try one and see for myself, they are claiming maximum plant/root growth currently known to man.... we will see, they are about 1 month out from harvest, when they will share the grow results using
their 2011 system....



the only improvement i can think of is cutting a removable panel out of the side of the top bucket so i can inspect the roots and environment without even moving the plant.

I ordered from supremhydro.com and he dissapeared i need more aero sites any suggestions on where I can find the best spray heads?

 

[Mike Young]

I believe the nozzles in those systems are cloudtops. Not sure, but they would certainly work.

 

[foresakenlion]

All the research I've seen does, this is where they got the conclusion that anything less than an extreme saturation of 5-20 micron droplets would not be able to sustain a larger plant, hence why you can't just use fog, knowing that plants absorb nutrients at a size one a single atom, I would then conclude that it isn't the size of the dry fog, but instead the capacity be delivered in the numbers/density required. Food for thought.

 

[dickkhead]

I believe the nozzles in those systems are cloudtops. Not sure, but they would certainly work.

ok he only sent a pump no accumulator tank do i need one? and what about the gauges and relief valve? im a plumber so i can put all that together if so? where do i get the cloud tops? and he sent a drt-1 timer 1 min on 5 off already set is this good enough?

 

[dickkhead]

and for my reservoir and equipment do u guys use hydrogenperoxide? to sterilize where can i get the right one not the over the counter one