led vs hps

smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
coldme said:
I got a question ive been reading on here but i am still stumped i wanted to know do riu think that led lighting yeild more than hps lighting whats your opinion
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L.E.D's can be used as supplemental lighting in all stages of the plants life; or to simply vegetate with. LED's don't compare to a nice HPS bulb when it comes to producing large yields.
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
KawiZZR said:
I hope that not all of your almost 2000 posts are as useless as these two. You have contributed nothing and are part of the reason these threads all end up so trashed.
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:wall::wall: Instead of making remarks like that you can go through my posts and see for yourself what I talk about. I'm sure several growers on RIU will vouch about what I "contribute".

edit:scroll to post#25
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
virulient said:
The large growers....they don't care about cost. Most of the commercial growers will happily shell out tens of thousands of dollars if the light is going to outperform what they are using now. Keep in mind I am a HUGE LED advocate...I love them. But that's because I'm setting people up small, personal-size grows for their household. Not to supply a dispensary. Therefore they aren't growing 36" tall plants and don't need the canopy penetration of an HID system. For people with a small grow, LED's are ideal, especially when growing smaller, quicker-yielding plants(like a SoG).

So, in conclusion, the fact that commercial growers AREN'T going out and replacing their HID systems with LED's is NOT a statement of how HID > LED period. LED's simply don't fit their particular needs. LED's have a place in indoor horticulture, AND as a main light, not a supplemental light. But it does have to be the right situation for them to thrive. If you are growing monsters with a 1000w HID and you go out and buy an LED, switch out lights, and keep growing the same.....well, you're really gonna hate LED's lol. Hope this helps.
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While most LEDs do not have the necessary penetration to compete with 1000w HIDs, some companies are coming out with high wattage panels that may be better able to compete. The issue I see with going by a wattage comparison is that to obtain the same yield as a 1000w HPS, two 500w LED panels might be needed. This is fine from a power use standpoint, but the yield per square foot will not be nearly the same. The HPS could cover a 5x5 area (25sqft), while the LEDs may have a combined 4x8 footprint (32sqft) to give the same yield. With only one setup the difference isn't too much, but even replacing only 5 HPS lights would mean needing an additional 35sqft. Basically, that would mean losing an entire light's yield over the same area.
 
virulient

virulient

Active Member
KawiZZR said:
While most LEDs do not have the necessary penetration to compete with 1000w HIDs, some companies are coming out with high wattage panels that may be better able to compete. The issue I see with going by a wattage comparison is that to obtain the same yield as a 1000w HPS, two 500w LED panels might be needed. This is fine from a power use standpoint, but the yield per square foot will not be nearly the same. The HPS could cover a 5x5 area (25sqft), while the LEDs may have a combined 4x8 footprint (32sqft) to give the same yield. With only one setup the difference isn't too much, but even replacing only 5 HPS lights would mean needing an additional 35sqft. Basically, that would mean losing an entire light's yield over the same area.
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The higher wattage units will increase coverage area, because all they are doing is using more 3w LEDs. A Bridgelux or Cree 3w LED is a 3w LED is a 3w LED. No unit that uses 3w LED's is going to penetrate better than another unit with 3w LED's(assuming were not talking about poorly-made, cheap diodes). At least not significantly. As we start developing the technology and using 5 or 6w LED, or whatever is new to come, we will be able to possibly grow much taller plants and expect the light to reach the bottom quadrants of said plants. As of now they just can't. I would like to stress that I'm not saying LED's are bad, or anything of the sort. Like I've said many times, I'm a HUGE LED advocate. They just need to be placed in the proper environment to really thrive.

As for the coverage area, I agree with you, but you gotta think. The statement you made is true if the grower is doing a SoG method. But if they are growing monsters the 2 lights just aren't comparable. I hope I'm not sounding redundant, I don't mean to be. Hope this helps.
 
S

STACKB

Active Member
I can vouch for faster cloning, vegging with the LEDs, definately worth it. Flowering , im not there yet.

I'd love to see a grow journal comparing 2x 1000w hps and 2000w worth of power used by leds(4k worth of led, 4x 1000w led panels) under the same amount of plants, same strain and climate of course! Maybe Ill try that If I can get my hands on some 1k leds without getting raped ! hah Distributors? holla at me
 
virulient

virulient

Active Member
smokebros said:
L.E.D's can be used as supplemental lighting in all stages of the plants life; or to simply vegetate with. LED's don't compare to a nice HPS bulb when it comes to producing large yields.
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This is not an example of a solid contribution to the discussion. This is an extremely broad statement that proves or disproves nothing. While this particular post of yours wasn't trolling, it was completely useless.

I'm gonna try 1 more time lol.

Fail troll is fail.....
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
virulient said:
The higher wattage units will increase coverage area, because all they are doing is using more 3w LEDs. A Bridgelux or Cree 3w LED is a 3w LED is a 3w LED. No unit that uses 3w LED's is going to penetrate better than another unit with 3w LED's(assuming were not talking about poorly-made, cheap diodes). At least not significantly. As we start developing the technology and using 5 or 6w LED, or whatever is new to come, we will be able to possibly grow much taller plants and expect the light to reach the bottom quadrants of said plants. As of now they just can't. I would like to stress that I'm not saying LED's are bad, or anything of the sort. Like I've said many times, I'm a HUGE LED advocate. They just need to be placed in the proper environment to really thrive.

As for the coverage area, I agree with you, but you gotta think. The statement you made is true if the grower is doing a SoG method. But if they are growing monsters the 2 lights just aren't comparable. I hope I'm not sounding redundant, I don't mean to be. Hope this helps.
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Haha no worries man, I love debating this stuff because it always brings up aspects I've never thought about. With the higher wattage panels the footprint can be kept the same but the intensity increased by narrowing the beam angles. It may only add another 6-12" of good canopy penetration, but that's still a significant gain. Also, some companies are starting to use the 5/6w diodes, just looks like there aren't too many useful spectrums in those wattages yet. And I completely agree about not trying to grow monster trees with LEDs, I was more trying to show how the lights need to be used in a different manner to keep equivalent yield per watt. With the lights currently available, either sog or scrog would be the best bet for a high yield under LED, a tree grow would be a pretty huge fail IMHO.
 
virulient

virulient

Active Member
KawiZZR said:
Haha no worries man, I love debating this stuff because it always brings up aspects I've never thought about. With the higher wattage panels the footprint can be kept the same but the intensity increased by narrowing the beam angles. It may only add another 6-12" of good canopy penetration, but that's still a significant gain. Also, some companies are starting to use the 5/6w diodes, just looks like there aren't too many useful spectrums in those wattages yet. And I completely agree about not trying to grow monster trees with LEDs, I was more trying to show how the lights need to be used in a different manner to keep equivalent yield per watt. With the lights currently available, either sog or scrog would be the best bet for a high yield under LED, a tree grow would be a pretty huge fail IMHO.
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I agree! I do the same thing. Every time I have a conversation about this I find new perspectives to look at the subject from. I think LED threads are my favorite thing on this website (besides Cannawizard's threads, I learn so much in those!). I have noticed that some companies DO push a little more amps per LED. For example the Hydro Grow 336 has something like 1.2 or 1.4 watts per diode, but the GLH light has 1.9. Pushing more than 2 would increase stability issues. I'd like to see a light with 100 6w chips (pushing around 4.8-5.0 true watts each diode) on someone's 500w model. The coverage might be a bit small with only 100 diodes, but I am curious to see precisely how much more penetration were going to get. I think the answer to that question will determine if LED's are the future or not. That and, of course, how well Plasma lighting comes along in reliability/cost in the near future.
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
Both hid and led lights work. I've used both. I no longer use hid and only use LED. My grows are similar in yield per dollar spent on electricity, but i'm using way less power. There's a slight learning curve with led growing but nothing you can't iron out after a cycle or two. The best part about growing with leds is the reduced heat and power bill without sacrificing the end results. I'll put up my 380w of led against a 600w hps or mh anyday. Start the hating now.
 
del66666

del66666

Well-Known Member
puffenuff said:
Both hid and led lights work. I've used both. I no longer use hid and only use LED. My grows are similar in yield per dollar spent on electricity, but i'm using way less power. There's a slight learning curve with led growing but nothing you can't iron out after a cycle or two. The best part about growing with leds is the reduced heat and power bill without sacrificing the end results. I'll put up my 380w of led against a 600w hps or mh anyday. Start the hating now.
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you just probably werent any good at using hps..........leds lol.show me your plants and i will show you mine
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
No thanks. I don't feel like getting into a dick measuring contest with you. The only dick I compare mine to is my own.
 
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