How Do We Eradicate Religion From Modern Society?

[XxHazexX]

unfortunately that will never be unless we of no religon rise and up and do away with those irrational belivers who cling to outdated and useless beliefs like the christains did to the pagens and how Homosapiens SNUFFED OUT Homoeretus .we must eradicate and erase those religous leaders & sites to force them to conform and any one who can't must be swiftly be delt with for the grater good.Religon dose nothing but spraed igorance, hate & violence with a flase and empty promise of love and peace

 

[Charlie Who?]

In simple terms, the answer is education and promotion of critical thinking. With this approach not only can we eliminate the potential evil inherit to dogmatic religion, we can also preserve the benefits, such as hope, humanistic pride, and inspiration. The goal is not to eradicate the idea of god, but dogmatic adherence to certainty in God.

Very well said.
But All religions arent bad.

Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what? Jews dont worry much about an afterlife---they focus on THIS life and stress education, morality and ethics, which is pretty reasonable. At least they're willing to wait and see what happens , if anything, after death and dont pretend to know who will get in to heaven and who wont.

But the other two, Christianity and Islam are the truly dangerous religions, because each of them claims to be the ONE "True" religion and feels perfectly justified in killing anybody who isnt one. Each believes they alone are right and ONLY they will get into heaven (or Paradise, as the case may be).

Because of their conviction of being the ONLY "true" religion, those fuckers are equally nits.

Buddhists are cool. They believe in Karma, as do the Hidnus. What goes around comes around and reincarnation eventually balances good and evil. What's wrong with that?
Neither of those two believe everybody BIT them are "damned", bad and evil.

Then there are the Nature oriented religions of Adrica, Australia Aborigines, south American Indians, Native Americans, Enuits, et. They see God in every part of nature--animals, water, the earth itself. They revere and respect all of Nature. They dont destroy any part of it.

What's wrong with that?

It's the chriatians and the mus that are seriously fucked up, dangerous and five minutes past midnight on the Crazy Clock.

Get rid of those two and everybody else will get along fine.

CW

 

[eye exaggerate]

Very well said.
But All religions arent bad.

Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what?

I'm not pushing a belief here, to be clear. I agree with a lot of your points. On to the post: my understanding is that 'chosen people' are chosen thoughts... those that move the human populous forward 'in the mind of god' - which to me (at present) is the cosmos.


Wow, did I ever pick the wrong file to work on today... lol


ps: you bring up the 'Hindus'... It is clear to me that they have a grasp on science that most don't have. Yet, at the core of their 'beliefs' is a blue man, a woman with more arms than me, and an elephant that removes obstacles.

Variations of the same principles across the board.

I wonder also why Nataraja is standing in the form of a statue on the grounds at cern.

 

[Padawanbater2]

unfortunately that will never be unless we of no religon rise and up and do away with those irrational belivers who cling to outdated and useless beliefs like the christains did to the pagens and how Homosapiens SNUFFED OUT Homoeretus .we must eradicate and erase those religous leaders & sites to force them to conform and any one who can't must be swiftly be delt with for the grater good.Religon dose nothing but spraed igorance, hate & violence with a flase and empty promise of love and peace

This is just about the worst idea yet. "Force them to conform"? You're kidding right? Substitute one extremely oppressive establishment for another? That doesn't sound like a very good plan. You can't force someone to believe something. The only way is through education and letting people figure things out for themselves.

 

[Heisenberg]

Very well said.
But All religions arent bad.

Just the ones that started in the middle east. In fact, of those three, (Jews, Mus, Christers), Jews aint even so bad. OK, so they believe they are "God's Chosen People", whatever that means. "Chosen" for what? Jews dont worry much about an afterlife---they focus on THIS life and stress education, morality and ethics, which is pretty reasonable. At least they're willing to wait and see what happens , if anything, after death and dont pretend to know who will get in to heaven and who wont.

But the other two, Christianity and Islam are the truly dangerous religions, because each of them claims to be the ONE "True" religion and feels perfectly justified in killing anybody who isnt one. Each believes they alone are right and ONLY they will get into heaven (or Paradise, as the case may be).

Because of their conviction of being the ONLY "true" religion, those fuckers are equally nits.

Buddhists are cool. They believe in Karma, as do the Hidnus. What goes around comes around and reincarnation eventually balances good and evil. What's wrong with that?
Neither of those two believe everybody BIT them are "damned", bad and evil.

Then there are the Nature oriented religions of Adrica, Australia Aborigines, south American Indians, Native Americans, Enuits, et. They see God in every part of nature--animals, water, the earth itself. They revere and respect all of Nature. They dont destroy any part of it.

What's wrong with that?

It's the chriatians and the mus that are seriously fucked up, dangerous and five minutes past midnight on the Crazy Clock.

Get rid of those two and everybody else will get along fine.

CW

I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possibly know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent than that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.

 

[eye exaggerate]

I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possible know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent as that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.

"God doesn't kill people, people with Gods kill people" ...have always liked that.

 

[blazinkill504]

How do you know what happens when we die? Have you died and come back to life? That's pretty awesome that you are the only person in the world who knows what happens.

So you're saying religious people find comfort from religion and you wish to take away this comfort? Well that's rude.

im not sayin blankness is what we're all goin too, but why would someone believe in god if that wasnt it? im sorry if thats rude or not but i dont have a vagina between my legs so im not gonna be scared of somethin that one i dunno whats gonna happen and two if it it nothingness why would anyone be afraid/ you arent gonna feel it

 

[Zaehet Strife]

existence could be real, could be illusion, we could have souls, could have consciousness, there could be god, nobody knows for sure. i think people who say that they know are still letting fear control their lives. as we all live our lives in fear to some extent...fear of not knowing weather or not we will get food or water, fear of not knowing weather we will be loved, or liked.

fear of not knowing what happens when you die.

no one knows, and it sucks because the fear never goes away, it is always there...

it is how you deal with the fear, that makes the difference. its how you accept the fear, which stems from not knowing...thats what makes the difference.

don't let fear control the way you live your life, and especially the way you think.

but alas, people are scared of the unknown. how do we give people courage in the face of not knowing what happens when you die? i think it would all be resolved with proper education for children, education in morality, individualism and freedom to do anything. freedom of not being condemned when you dont conform to society. people want to belong so badly, people want to be loved so badly. this is such a hard topic, because so many people are just so damned afraid!

i think, if we could all just come to accept the fact that we dont know...and if we can just learn to live happily within that fear, things in the world could be better.

how do we do it in a positive way? how do we help people take control of their fear, rather than allowing and encouraging others to let it control their lives and the way they think? these are two very very hard question indeed.

 

[Charlie Who?]

This is just about the worst idea yet. "Force them to conform"? You're kidding right? Substitute one extremely oppressive establishment for another? That doesn't sound like a very good plan. You can't force someone to believe something. The only way is through education and letting people figure things out for themselves.

"unless we of no religion rise up and...."??? well, er uh....aint that about the same thought as "we of CHRISTIAN belief rise up...." or "we of Muslim belief rise up and...."???

The "rising up" IS the problem. When any group "rises up and makes"....we get what we have now.
Here's an idea....how bout if NOBODY "rises up"? and just lets folks choose whether they believe or dont believe?

What makes you think the "non-believers" are "right"? Any more "right" than the goddam Believers are?

When can all people get it that the question is UN-ANSWERABLE and UN-PROVABLE?

The Believers dont know for sure there IS a god....and the UNbelievers dont know for sure there isnt one.

Until a time comes when ALL people earnestly respect the other side's right to their beliefs, (or UN-beliefs as the sace may be) they're ALL dangerous to the Ones's Who Dont Agree.

For instance, suppose all the Mus should admit, "hey! Im a Muslim! But the truth is, I dont KNOW for sure!" and the Christers should say, "Hey! Im a Christer....but I dont actually KNOW!" and the atheists should say, "I dont THINK there's a god....but hell, I aint SURE!"

Then we might just realize we're ALL in the exact same boat----we dont, any of us, KNOW shit.

What we have here, globally, is a shitload of people with opinions about something not a damn one of us knows anything for SURE about.

Nobody knows. Everybody THINKS he knows. That's the one thing I kinda admire most about Jews. At least they KNOW they dont know anything about any suck thing as an "after-life" They're wise enough to say, "We dont know what happens after death....so let's focus on LIFE and how to best behave while we live." The othet two mid eastern religios cults keep insistineg THEY "know" what happens after death and furthermore "they"(the other guys) aint gettin IN.

It's the "we're right andf they're wrong" thing that has kept Mus and Cris killing each other for 1500 years, both in "the name of God" (or Allah).

Now, as far as "educating" people....the Chinese tried that, so did the now defunct Soviet Union. Both discovered that, regardless of "education" that "god is a false belief", a certain (latge) percentage of people STILL refused to give up their idea of "god".

There just MAY be a reason, fundamental to all humans, for this.

Since the first Cave Guy left his cave and stared up at the stars, some people have come to the conclusion that, "Somebody Out There MADE all this....and that mutherfucker MUST be GOD."

Spirituality is inherent within our species. We alone can look at this Cosmos and be awe-stricken. "HOW did all this come about?", we ask.

And, until the late 19th century, nobody even questioned it. Clearly, SOMEbody made the universe. Then along came the advent of "modern" science. By the 20th century, (the latrer half, at least), we had enough actual knowledge of physics, astronomy, biology, to begin to question whether "god" made it or if maybe it was all just some big cosmic accident of nature.

Before there was science (last couple hundred years), there was Magic (previous 10,000yers or so) Each of these is a reflection of the thought of Man. Man "evolved". However.....regardless of how humans changed, the universe stayed pretty much the same. It didnt care that early man looked out at the stars and was awe-stricken. It doesnrt care NOW that we peer into It's depths with the Hubble telescope, either. The constant is----both Mr. Neanderthall and Mr Astronomer STILL say,
Holy shit....this is amazing....and I dont know how it all got started."

I was watching NOVA last night and some astronomers were showing the Huble and announced that at last we KNOW exactly WHEN the Universe began. The date of the Big Bang was 16.7 billion years ago. They know this by measuring the length of red waves and blue waves given off by stars as they move away from the viewer,(near as I could understand)

OK, Im happy with that. Except.....IF the universe had an actual Beginning.....a precise moment when it went from DOESNT EXIST to DOES EXIST, then....doesnt that mean there will also be an eventual ending?

These guys say the universe is expanding. Into....what? Empty space. OK. If the universe, then, is finite.....should we assume space is finite, also? Andf if so....what the fuck lies outside it's edge? Or, is space expanding, too? and if so, wont it always hold the millions of galaxies, no matter how spread out they get?

Here's another thing I thought was cool.....science used to think there was only one galaxy. Now, the Huble has shown there are millions of others. They showed a "hole" some astronomer looked thru, the size of a drinking straw, into am "empty" spot of empty space..... and woo hoo.....thru the rabbit hole, there were a whole nuther world of other galaxies. One can only assume a peek theu one of that other galaxies "dark spots" would reveal yet another....and another, and so on.

But here's the mind-blowing part: The images they showed looked EXACTLY like the images of fractals we've all seen.

I mean, exactly. In fact, If I showed you an image from those other galaxies and said, "What is this"? You guys would probaly reply, "looks like a fractal to me."

Now.....OK, so we didnt see a fractal until the computer came along and Dr. Mandelbrot produced a visual image of one. But they were always there. One could say that fractal geometry is the math God used to design the universe. Whether we use science to look deep inside the tinyest of matter....of to look outward at the galaxies....the images look just the same. Literally. I mean, I could show you a drop of urine with calcium oxilate crystals in it taken frm a patient with kidney stones thru an electron microscope and tell you it was a picture taken tru the Huble of a distant star and you'd say, "OK, I see it."

Now...if this is all just a cosmic accident, then....... well, I'll blow you on Main Street at high noon on Christmas Day. The more science reveals the complexity of this extraordinary universe, the less likely it seems to me it could be an "accident".

Perhaps what we "enlightened" folks of the 21st century need is NOT to throw out the outdated concepts of God....but to embrace a brand new one--- of God as the ultimate Scientist, not merely "discovering" the intricate Laws of the Uni, but thinking them up in the first place, setting them into motion and patiently waiting for us to begin to understand.

I heartily agree that religion is bullshit, mythology and lies. But that doesnt mean there is no God. It just means we're only NOW just at the earliest stage of beginning to tiptoe from what God is NOT to what God Is. God is NOT the gray-bearded old man handing out punishment and reward. That concept reflects our own evolutionary growth. We Had nothing BUT our own experience of the patriarchal "father figure", either happy(and rewarding) or pissed off (and punishing) at our behavior, to draw from. It was what we knew. That "God created man in His own image" is clearly, nonsense. Man created God in his own image is truth. That we imagined God to be The Big Daddy in The Sky is not surprising. What else could we have done prior to science?

OK, so we spent 100 little tiny years all full of ourselves for having finally "discovered" "there is no God." Oh, we're SO smart now, with all out science, we FINALLY figured it out that the Bible is all just mythology." Yeah, yeah, yeah. YES, the Bible IS all mythology. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. True, there was no Voice speaking from any damn Burning Bush, there aint no guy ever born of a virgin, aint no guy ever got up from the dead. But, so what? Those stories CAME from OUR desperate need to "know", with no science to draw from. Those stories are out-dated now, revealed to any 21st century, thinking mind as bullshit. But all that means is that our concept of god is no longer applicable, not that God doesnt exist.

We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.

CW

 

[eye exaggerate]

We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.

CW

It is interesting to me that we are drawn to pleasant things over grotesque. If nature had wanted us to eradicate ourselves would we be more prone to liking the grotesque? (f.e. war-like violence, improperly! placed punctuation, etc. )

 

[Padawanbater2]

That entire post is one huge appeal to ignorance.

"I don't know how this works, so God did it" "It couldn't be an accident, so God did it" "It's too complicated, so God did it"

Give me a break.

Howbout if God actually did it, you guys start showing how. If there's no evidence showing how (as there shouldn't be if you're familiar with the concept of faith) then stop making claims one did. It makes believers look foolish.

Atheists are the only ones saying "I don't know", Christians, Muslims and Jews need to get on the wagon and stop throwing rocks at everybody, as has been the case for hundreds of years.

 

[Heisenberg]

We need to expand our concept. God, the Creator, the Scientist, the Mathemetician, the Engineer of the Cosmos. Beardless, genderless, Pure Aware Creative and Benevolent Energy.

CW

Nothing in your arguments indicates the requirement of a supernatural explanation for the universe. In fact, a creator god, whether hes a mathematician or a scientist, still compounds the problem rather than offering a solution. If the universe had a designer then that designer must be himself more complicated than the universe, so where did he come from? Without evidence it is just speculation, and that speculation serves to introduce more questions rather than supply any answers. That is not the sort of speculation that helps with problem solving.

 

[Charlie Who?]

Nothing in your arguments indicates the requirement of a supernatural explanation for the universe. In fact, a creator god, whether hes a mathematician or a scientist, still compounds the problem rather than offering a solution. If the universe had a designer then that designer must be himself more complicated than the universe, so where did he come from? Without evidence it is just speculation, and that speculation serves to introduce more questions rather than supply any answers. That is not the sort of speculation that helps with problem solving.

Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?

In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.

Humans just really WANT to believe they're the Top of the universal intelligence. Anything outside they're IQ range is dismissed as "not real".

Let's take something simpler than God. Some people say they have seen a ghost, spirit, whatever. Those who have NOT seen one dismiss this as "delusion", a "waking dream", "imagination", "hallucination". In other words, "since I have not seen a ghost, there are no ghosts." The implication is, "IF ghosts exist, then dammit I would have seen one." They just cant stand it that something outside their personal reality might be real.

Everybody is the Center of the universe, LOL. Each of us sees him/herself as the ultimate authority on what is and what isnt. If I see a ghost, then there are ghosts. If I have nerver seen one, they dont exist.

The person who has had a near death experience or an out-of-body experience says he had the experience. Those who have not say, "No, you didnt. You IMAGINED it." They just cannot stand that if anybody had such an experience, it want them.

Fuck man. Ive never been to Montana. Therefore, there is no Montana. Furthermore, anybody who says they have been to Montana is either lying, hallucinating, or just plain nuts.

Seriously. Because IF there was a Montana, goddammit, I WOULD KNOW IT. Because after all, I AM the Center of the Universe and privy to All Truth.

Because....well...if there IS a Montana....and IF I dont know it....then oh shit....maybe I aint as special as I think I am. If OTHER people are privy to the existence of Montana....and Im not....then OMG, THEY must be MORE special and smart and sighted than I am.....which makes me shit by comparison...which simply CANNOT and MUST NOT be true.....


so, there is no Montana. The existence of Montana would just....shake up my world way too much. I would be face to face with my obvious lack of of comprehenson and that would scare the crap outa me.


Probably mice think nothing is smarter than they are, too.

Humans being unable to understand or grasp something beyond their intelligence doesnt mean that which is beyond their intelligence doesnt exist.

CW

 

[Charlie Who?]

I was careful to single out dogmatic adherence. Any religion which forbids dispute and requires the surrender of the mind to unreasonable ideas is equally as bad as the other. When people train their brain that it is okay to believe some things based on no evidence or reasoning, the potential for great evil is always there. Even beliefs that seem benign have this potential. 100 years ago the belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception seemed silly, but harmless enough. Enter medical abortions and stem cell research, and now we have a benign belief that is causing misery and costing lives, not to mention allowing people to perceive they have an authority to dictate other's lives. That authority often leads to totalitarian mentality. If we took the top three religions away, there are dozens of others waiting to take their place. The enemy is not God, the enemy is not worship of god, the enemy is the certainty in ideas that can not possibly be supported. When people profess to know more than they can possibly know and do so with absolute conviction. It's when people use that conviction to justify actions, to govern their social interactions, and to influence decisions in social and public policy that problems arise. Nothing could be more irresponsible or indecent than that. The solution to these problems is not exclusion, suppression or eradication of religious ideas, but encouragement of doubt and critical analysis of those ideas. This includes giving people the tools they need to think skeptically and unbiased about all ideas, religion being only one.

You're a bright dude, Heisenberg.

CW

 

[Heisenberg]

What makes you think the "non-believers" are "right"? Any more "right" than the goddam Believers are?

The same things that make us think we are right when we decide Elvis is dead, leprechauns are fantasy and the boogieman doesn't exist. Critical analysis.

The Believers dont know for sure there IS a god....and the UNbelievers dont know for sure there isnt one.

Until a time comes when ALL people earnestly respect the other side's right to their beliefs, (or UN-beliefs as the sace may be) they're ALL dangerous to the Ones's Who Dont Agree.

Nothing about my atheism requires me to disrespect or hurt those who don't agree. I think the majority of religious beliefs are contemptible and deserving of ridicule, but that is not dictated by my atheism. Religious beliefs do not have to include intolerance or prohibit doubt, but most of them do.

For instance, suppose all the Mus should admit, "hey! Im a Muslim! But the truth is, I dont KNOW for sure!" and the Christers should say, "Hey! Im a Christer....but I dont actually KNOW!" and the atheists should say, "I dont THINK there's a god....but hell, I aint SURE!"

This is essentially what atheists say. I am not convinced there is a god. Again, only religions claim certainty.

Then we might just realize we're ALL in the exact same boat----we dont, any of us, KNOW shit.

I know it is not right to judge and oppress based on beliefs that can not possibly be known, let alone proven. I know it's not okay to hold false ideas about reality, that is if I am motivated to obtain valid knowledge. Rarely when atheists criticize religious people are they motivated by certainty that there is no god.

What we have here, globally, is a shitload of people with opinions about something not a damn one of us knows anything for SURE about.

Which of those opinions are causing problems? It is being too concerned with evidence and reason, or being too certain in the mind of god?

Now, as far as "educating" people....the Chinese tried that, so did the now defunct Soviet Union. Both discovered that, regardless of "education" that "god is a false belief", a certain (latge) percentage of people STILL refused to give up their idea of "god".

Why do you assume the goal of education is to eradicate the belief in god? I don't mind if people play with god, just don't bring him over to my house. Education is about combating the perceived authority that comes from being certain of god's mind. A large percentage of people refused to give up the belief that Y2K was going to cause armageddon, does that mean we should have stopped trying to educate people? Should we abandon rationale in the name of futility?

Saying people will always need god so lets give them religion is like saying people will always need entertainment so lets give them snuff films.

But here's the mind-blowing part: The images they showed looked EXACTLY like the images of fractals we've all seen.

I mean, exactly. In fact, If I showed you an image from those other galaxies and said, "What is this"? You guys would probaly reply, "looks like a fractal to me."

Now.....OK, so we didnt see a fractal until the computer came along and Dr. Mandelbrot produced a visual image of one. But they were always there. One could say that fractal geometry is the math God used to design the universe. Whether we use science to look deep inside the tinyest of matter....of to look outward at the galaxies....the images look just the same. Literally. I mean, I could show you a drop of urine with calcium oxilate crystals in it taken frm a patient with kidney stones thru an electron microscope and tell you it was a picture taken tru the Huble of a distant star and you'd say, "OK, I see it."

Interesting observation, but it supports the theory that the universe is just a simulation being ran on a computer of the future before it would suggest a divine creator. Afterall, a future computer requires no supernatural element.

You're a bright dude, Heisenberg.

CW

Thanks, I hope you don't mistake my exploration of your ideas as disapproval of you expressing them.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

what us intellectuals are trying to do has nothing to do with trying to abolish or get rid of theology or religion or dogmatic belief.... its that once you realize the "truth" about religion, dogmatic belief and theology... those beliefs will disappear as a side effect of realizing that "truth"

the truth is, that no one knows.

if people would accept that, there would be no need for religion, dogmatic belief or theology... we as humans have grown past the idea of comforting fairy tales, we are smarter than that now. theology stemmed from our early ancestors trying to make sense of a world where they didnt have the proper knowledge or tools to make sense of it.

now we know why we stick to the earth (gravity), now we know we aren't at the center of our universe, let alone the center of our galaxy.

yet again i state, the truth is... NO ONE KNOWS.

we are not trying to say anyone is wrong, we are not trying to say anyone is right.... we are trying to tell you the truth and you just wont listen, because you theologians are too scared to accept that you don't know.

no one knows, its scary...GET OVER IT.



the only way for the people on this planet to be able to come together to save this world, is for all of us to accept this ultimate truth.

"no one knows, its scary, we dont have to lie to ourselves anymore to make us feel better about death...we can accept this fear of the unknown and face it with courage and unity... or we can lie to ourselves, let the fear control our lives and our thoughts..and accept our dogmatic beliefs as truths"

its up to the individual to take the first step toward enlightenment, or "waking up" to this ultimate truth.
we as humans do not know what happens when you die, nor do we know what the point of life is, nor do we know why we are here. accept it, face it, live without fear for it is the only true way to be happy, the only true way to be free.

 

[Heisenberg]

Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?

Perfection is never obtainable but always worthy of effort. If there is a creator I certainly want to know about it. The fact that I probably wont ever understand shouldn't stop me from trying.

In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.

If god created nature, then he must be beyond nature. If god is of nature, then nature created god. How would something bring about reality if that something doesn't exist before reality? So yes, if the universe had an intelligent designer, he would have to be supernatural.

Humans just really WANT to believe they're the Top of the universal intelligence. Anything outside they're IQ range is dismissed as "not real".

Quantum mechanics are beyond the scope of my IQ range, yet I accept the concepts. Astrophysics is far beyond my understanding, yet I accept it's paradigm. If the idea of god had support rivaling these, I would accept it too.

Let's take something simpler than God. Some people say they have seen a ghost, spirit, whatever. Those who have NOT seen one dismiss this as "delusion", a "waking dream", "imagination", "hallucination". In other words, "since I have not seen a ghost, there are no ghosts." The implication is, "IF ghosts exist, then dammit I would have seen one." They just cant stand it that something outside their personal reality might be real.

Everybody is the Center of the universe, LOL. Each of us sees him/herself as the ultimate authority on what is and what isnt. If I see a ghost, then there are ghosts. If I have nerver seen one, they dont exist.

Well you are distilling people down to a dichotomy. Either you say ghosts don't exist, or you say they do. What about people like Joe Nickell, who persistently investigates extra-ordinary reports yet has never found a shred of evidence allowing him to say he believes in ghosts? If he believed ghosts didn't exist, do you suppose he would waste his life and career on finding them? He cant say he believes because everything he has investigated has had ordinary explanations. When we have an ordinary explanation which explains all evidence vs a supernatural explanation which allows every assumption it needs to explain evidence, we favor the ordinary one. In the case of the universe, we favor the one that has evidence and multiple independent lines of support. We can't say that it is the correct one, we can only say it is the one worthy of pursuit. We can not give any more weight to the idea of a creator god than we can of a computer simulation, until we have rationale for doing so.

The person who has had a near death experience or an out-of-body experience says he had the experience. Those who have not say, "No, you didnt. You IMAGINED it." They just cannot stand that if anybody had such an experience, it want them.

These sorts of experiences are very interesting and have exciting implications. If we want to understand these phenomena, the only valid route is to rule out other explanations. It is only being responsible to ask if these experiences are have a neurological cause. In any case, the idea that these experiences are genuine is easily testable. Some hospitals have random number generators in their emergency rooms, so that if someone floats above their body they may remember the number sequence. Astral travel can be tested in the same way.

Fuck man. Ive never been to Montana. Therefore, there is no Montana. Furthermore, anybody who says they have been to Montana is either lying, hallucinating, or just plain nuts.

Seriously. Because IF there was a Montana, goddammit, I WOULD KNOW IT. Because after all, I AM the Center of the Universe and privy to All Truth.

Because....well...if there IS a Montana....and IF I dont know it....then oh shit....maybe I aint as special as I think I am. If OTHER people are privy to the existence of Montana....and Im not....then OMG, THEY must be MORE special and smart and sighted than I am.....which makes me shit by comparison...which simply CANNOT and MUST NOT be true.....

You are creating a very dumb strawman who takes things to absurd conclusions. I don't know anyone who acts this way, do you? If so, you should introduce them to skepticism.

so, there is no Montana. The existence of Montana would just....shake up my world way too much. I would be face to face with my obvious lack of of comprehenson and that would scare the crap outa me.

Doubt is a tool that helps us reach actuality. You are describing vain incredulity. They really don't have much to do with each other.

Humans being unable to understand or grasp something beyond their intelligence doesnt mean that which is beyond their intelligence doesnt exist.

Right, just because there is no good reason to believe in Bigfoot doesn't mean he isn't out there, but it does put him pretty far down on our list of priorities. Using an inexplicable omniscience to explain the universe might be an easy way to digest reality, but there is nothing to suggest it is a good place to start, indeed, reason would suggest quite the opposite.

You are presenting the universe as a mystery when it's better described as a puzzle.

 

[hazorazo]

Where is it written that problems with understanding the nature of God are supposed to be "solved"?

In fact, where is it written that God is "supernatural"? I dont think anything is supernatural. Some shit is inexplicable.....but not supernatural. To a mouse, a skyscraper is "supernatural". It is beyond his understanding. But the skyscraper is still there, regardless of the mouse's tiny intellect.

Humans just really WANT to believe they're the Top of the universal intelligence. Anything outside they're IQ range is dismissed as "not real".

Let's take something simpler than God. Some people say they have seen a ghost, spirit, whatever. Those who have NOT seen one dismiss this as "delusion", a "waking dream", "imagination", "hallucination". In other words, "since I have not seen a ghost, there are no ghosts." The implication is, "IF ghosts exist, then dammit I would have seen one." They just cant stand it that something outside their personal reality might be real.

Everybody is the Center of the universe, LOL. Each of us sees him/herself as the ultimate authority on what is and what isnt. If I see a ghost, then there are ghosts. If I have nerver seen one, they dont exist.

The person who has had a near death experience or an out-of-body experience says he had the experience. Those who have not say, "No, you didnt. You IMAGINED it." They just cannot stand that if anybody had such an experience, it want them.

Fuck man. Ive never been to Montana. Therefore, there is no Montana. Furthermore, anybody who says they have been to Montana is either lying, hallucinating, or just plain nuts.

Seriously. Because IF there was a Montana, goddammit, I WOULD KNOW IT. Because after all, I AM the Center of the Universe and privy to All Truth.

Because....well...if there IS a Montana....and IF I dont know it....then oh shit....maybe I aint as special as I think I am. If OTHER people are privy to the existence of Montana....and Im not....then OMG, THEY must be MORE special and smart and sighted than I am.....which makes me shit by comparison...which simply CANNOT and MUST NOT be true.....


so, there is no Montana. The existence of Montana would just....shake up my world way too much. I would be face to face with my obvious lack of of comprehenson and that would scare the crap outa me.


Probably mice think nothing is smarter than they are, too.

Humans being unable to understand or grasp something beyond their intelligence doesnt mean that which is beyond their intelligence doesnt exist.

CW

The cool thing about Montana is that if someone argued with you, you could fly there, or drive there and show them MONTANA. You cannot do that with God. Honestly, organized religion is a problem, because you cannot drive there, and prove your point. Montana exists in reality. God is an idea. Not real. Not an all powerful being. The bible is written by men, and should be used as a book of stories which reflect a certain moral standpoint. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you really think YOU have it right, and everyone else does not? I tend to believe that MOST have no idea whether God exists, they just HOPE he does, so they can justify looking crazy here on earth.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

its up to the individual to take the first step toward enlightenment, or "waking up" to the ultimate truth.
we as humans do not know what happens when you die, nor do we know what the point of life is, nor do we know why we are here. accept it, face it, live without fear for it is the only true way to be happy, the only true way to be free.

 

[VILEPLUME]

lol, the title sounds like something Hitler would say.

But instead of just killing all the Jews, it would be anyone who believes in something.