Civilization Among The Other Planets

[LightningMcGreen]

So if we were to find a civilization on another planet that was technologically similar to ours, would they look identical? For example, would their communication systems that rely on radio waves conists of circular dishes? Assuming they used fossil fuels, would their cars be similar? A vehicle with 2/4 doors, 4 rubber tires, and a combustible engine in the front?

I guess what l'm really asking is, have we harnessed the potential of our resources and natural laws the most efficient way? Provided they had about the same natural resources as we do?

 

[tyler.durden]

Awesome thread idea. I often think about this, the anthropic principle (of which I'm a fan) states that it's probable many other civilizations exist throughout the universe, some much older than ours, and some much more advanced than ours. I think many of its inhabitants would be carbon based (since carbon is such an abundant element throughout the universe), but could be silicon based or some other element. Since the laws of physics are consistent throughout the universe, I think some technology would progress similar to the way ours did. I think many would have progressed as we have, a little faster or a little slower, but some may have exploded without the hindrances that we have faced. I certainly don't think we've evolved as a civilization in the most efficient way possible

 

[cannabineer]

The radio dishes, probably yes. They're engineering expressions of Euclid in action.
Cars? That's tougher. A sapient technological species about as advanced as we are might have very different transportation needs/wants.
In re efficiency, I doubt we're being very efficient at all ... this comes from the constant dynamic between individual and community. It's like government ... all the ways that work, work quite poorly.
My hope is that we survive and thrive long enough to get into space in a way that matters ... send seedships to nearby solar systems. By then we won't need planets at all. The Kuiper belt is prime real estate. Jmo.
cheers 'neer

 

[Finshaggy]

I think about this stuff all the time. Alright, check this out.
Statistics, that is what we base things on. Science is even, "Which thing happened the most amount of times, that one is proven." So basically anything we believe in, is based on how statistically favored or possible it is.
We only know of 9 planets (minus Pluto now, so 8. Plus Colbert took part in funding a telescope that outdid the hubble, but I'm not going to count that because it hasn't been completely analyzed, and I don't think they noticed every possible thing noticeable yet I don't think.)
So we know of 9 planets, and we know that the sun is a star. The same as the stars in the sky. Maybe a little different from some, but all stars still. Statistically, what we know is: Every star is a sun, Every sun has 9 planets, 1 out of every 9 planets HAS LIFE. Statistically, even if you take out the "Every sun has 9 planets" part. It is STATISTICALLY true, that 1/9 of planets has life.

And further than that, we should not accept that water is the base for all life. That is not necessarily true. As long as something appeared on whatever mystery planet we're talking about, that was similar to plants or fungus. There is a possibility for something similar to animals. This is not at all to say that they would be anything like a human, or any animal on earth. Because in a different atmosphere, with different conditions, anything could work like water and support an earth like system. And who's to say there isn't a way for much, much different life forms to appear.

First off about their technology. Their communication would probably be SOOOO different from us. They will have evolved from something so much different than us, that trying to decipher their communication will be as hard as understanding what a plant has to say about what it feels. So we won't even recognize their base mediums for/or usage of anything.
And I'm not sure as far as the wheel. Spheres work just as good. So a civilization could have come up with the base invention of sphere instead of wheel and already be completely diverse, and advanced from ours in that way. And there could be planets with all kinds of crazy stuff going on involving the mixture of two planets information and technology. The universe is going to be even more of an adventure and discovery than when they found The America's. Like Columbus ain't got shit on whoever meets the first alien.


http://finshaggy.blogspot.com

 

[olylifter420]

Since the laws of physics are consistent throughout the universe,

what if they were further advanced then us and made fun of our theories and laws? What if they had better resources on their planet then on ours? Do you think that would lead to a more advanced civilization?

I think many would have progressed as we have

i think so as well, but dont you think that some may be composed differently then us? i mean we are a product of our environment right? It is crazy to think about cause the possibilities are endless, and just yesterday i was reading a new discovery of 50 or so planets about 35 light years away, some 10x bigger others the same size as Earth. Im pretty sure if there is water in any form, there could be life and as long as they are within the "goldie lox" zone, the rate is increased.\

I certainly don't think we've evolved as a civilization in the most efficient way possible

I would have to disagree, i think we have evolved into far more efficient beings then our ancestors at this point along the time line... what i do think is that with all these new genetic disorders and abnormalities, that our species is evolving, into what, im not sure yet.. maybe later we will evolve into being immune to cancer or AIDS or banish it permanently from our gene pool... Also, i think obesity will be a major factor within our gene pool that will have an impact on how and what humans will look or be like in the future.

 

[olylifter420]

Statistically, what we know is: Every star is a sun, Every sun has 9 planets

there are stars with more and some stars with less, im pretty sure of that, but you do make a rather interesting point.

So we won't even recognize their base mediums for/or usage of anything.

i would have to disagree. If they are much more advanced then they should be able to decipher ours and come to a conclusion on how we can interpret theirs. Language and communication is about semantics so i would think there would be some similarities.

The universe is going to be even more of an adventure and discovery than when they found The America's.

it sucks because i wish i could be around for those discoveries, but all things must come to an end... i would really like to know what happens to the Earth after we are gone say maybe 100,000 years from now or 1,000,000 years from now.

 

[LightningMcGreen]

Every sun has 9 planets http://finshaggy.blogspot.com

I'm no cosmologist, but l don't think this is necessarily true...where did you hear this? Not trying to be a dick, out of genuine curiosity...?

Their communication would probably be SOOOO different from us. http://finshaggy.blogspot.com

Interesting idea...how so? Like, if not via electricity or radio waves, what other mediums/channels do you think they would employ?

Like Columbus ain't got shit on whoever meets the first alien. http://finshaggy.blogspot.com

Now THAT is funny haha...l agree, and props to you sir!

 

[LightningMcGreen]

I would have to disagree, i think we have evolved into far more efficient beings then our ancestors at this point along the time line... what i do think is that with all these new genetic disorders and abnormalities, that our species is evolving, into what, im not sure yet.. maybe later we will evolve into being immune to cancer or AIDS or banish it permanently from our gene pool... Also, i think obesity will be a major factor within our gene pool that will have an impact on how and what humans will look or be like in the future.

I think what he was trying to say oly is that, the fact we are able to clone, smash atoms, and map the human genome, yet we still war over small things like theology...if this is what he was implying l would have to agree.

However, you make some excellent points yourself...all of you guys do! Nice to hear everyone's opinion and see people like myself that like to ponder these things, even though we'll probably never get to witness any of it

 

[olylifter420]

I think what he was trying to say oly is that, the fact we are able to clone, smash atoms, and map the human genome, yet we still war over small things like theology.

i know the point he was making, i just think there are more things to think about then what scientific advancements like in technology, and im not trying to be a dick. i think our problem with obesity will play a major role in our gene pool make up

 

[LightningMcGreen]

i know the point he was making, i just think there are more things to think about then what scientific advancements like in technology, and im not trying to be a dick. i think our problem with obesity will play a major role in our gene pool make up

That l concur with...but, do you think obesity is more race related? Or a societal issue?

 

[Finshaggy]

Oly:More likely for everyone to get HIV positive, and the AIDS getters to die off, than to remove AIDS from the gene pool. Unless we find a cure we will all get HIV, and it will be like the plague.Until HIV positive, but AIDsS Immune people are left. There is already a tribe in Africa that is 100% HIV positive and not a single one of them ever gets AIDS anymore.

Oly: I was just saying that they may be more advanced than us. There is no way to tell if anyone came whether they would be more or less advanced. And still even if they figured out how we interpret things they might not be able to connect to us in a friendly, conversational or similar way. We understand bears and sharks to a pretty good extent, but they still eat us all the time. And humans are definitely not any friendlier than a bear. At least a bear has the good manners to growl and charge for warning. A human will pretend be your best friend and blow your brains out in front of your family house. There may be some similarities between us and them. But there will be MANY more differences.

Oly: How old are you, you might be here. Maybe not for aliens to actually come, but to witness a shift in the right direction to open channels to universal connectivity.

Lightning:Not TRUE. Statistically, based on what we have seen of suns and planets. Which (until the Colbert funded telescope) Was 1 star has 9 planets. That's what we "know".

Lightning:I just meant different in like, they might not use vocal cords or sign language in any recognizable form or maybe at all. But still further, they could use waves that we haven't even harnessed. Or use waves we have harnessed in new ways. Think about it, we can only see a particular spectrum of light. There are more that we know of, but cannot see (xrays), and more most likely that haven't even been discovered yet.
We only know certain ways certain waves work, and more wave based society may know how to use xrays to endless possibility since it can pass through things. Or who knows what else they could be using. Anything, we just harnessed the power of light coded information though FIOS.
And say they communicate through chemical transfer like plants, that would open up a WHOLE NEW system of communication. Imagine if plants were inventing things to further their networking skills. That would be crazy. Another planets species will be even more unimaginable than that.

Lightning:Thank you.

 

[olylifter420]

i do not think obesity is a racial thing because i have seen at least one obese person of each race... Societal could be a factor because of the influences your parents, grandparents, random family members, friends could have over your decision making. I do believe that obesity stems from a mix of environment and genetics, which most can agree on and i would think genetics are also influenced by race, so i take my first comment back. One thing you can add is the lack of education that the USdOE has failed to give within all schools. I also believe that as we become more modern and family based, the lack of discipline that parents tend to not instill in there kids nowadays plays a role as well.. what i mean by discipline is parents do not respond to bad behavior like they should... Most do not even pay attention to what their kid is doing till they fuck themselves up. This lack of integrity and discipline tends to play out for the rest of that kids life, so do you think a kid with that up bringing will actually put in the work to be healthy? Probably not, most cases yes, some no, there are always exceptions.

So i would say it is a mix of both things that have lead to this pandemic known as "Globesity!"

That l concur with...but, do you think obesity is more race related? Or a societal issue?

 

[mindphuk]

i know the point he was making, i just think there are more things to think about then what scientific advancements like in technology, and im not trying to be a dick. i think our problem with obesity will play a major role in our gene pool make up

Evolution is generally Darwinian not Lamarckian. Obesity has no effect on our genes. Besides, biological evolution is incredibly slow and especially where technological evolution is concerned, it is left in the dust. We adapt much more quickly than is possible genetically.

Interesting point you make about disease though. It appears some of the same genes that allowed some people to survive major plagues like The Black Death and smallpox may in fact confer some natural immunity to HIV. However viruses and disease will always be our lords and masters. No matter how good we get in being able to fight them, nature will find a way and remind us who's in charge.

it sucks because i wish i could be around for those discoveries, but all things must come to an end... i would really like to know what happens to the Earth after we are gone say maybe 100,000 years from now or 1,000,000 years from now.

QFT!

 

[Finshaggy]

Yeah, obesity isn't even racially specific to humans. There are chunky everything. I even saw a fat shark picture last night. Society has an impact (commercials are a BIG one).

And I actually think a child given the chance to fuck up, is MORE likely to work against it. Like, someone who is tricked into smoking weed will be less tolerant of it in the future than someone who has never tried it, right? Because the curiousity factor became a fear factor.

Obesity will not play a major role in our genetics, it will play a major role in killing off obese people. They will die sooner, reproduce less, and in hard times they won't make it as long. (They've got extra blubber for the body to eat though.)

 

[LightningMcGreen]

So then, it would be safe to assume that, the civilizations who make it long enough to reach and colonize the depths of outer space, will be healthier than us? I would hope so...it's bad enough being in the fat and greedy country known as the USA, l'd hate for earth to be seen the same way on the galactic scale

 

[Finshaggy]

Fat and greedy only works on a credit system or "money" type system. A lot of species would probably have picked something to trade that is more important than gold, paper and credits; like oxygen, water, women or food. Something. Or maybe even food preservative, or salt like the vikings (they treated it like gold almost). And you have to be involved in actual activity to get those things. Other planets would have more or less people on them also. So property would be nonexistent or more of an issue.

 

[Heisenberg]

Statistics, that is what we base things on. Science is even, "Which thing happened the most amount of times, that one is proven." So basically anything we believe in, is based on how statistically favored or possible it is.
We only know of 9 planets (minus Pluto now, so 8. Plus Colbert took part in funding a telescope that outdid the hubble, but I'm not going to count that because it hasn't been completely analyzed, and I don't think they noticed every possible thing noticeable yet I don't think.)
So we know of 9 planets, and we know that the sun is a star. The same as the stars in the sky. Maybe a little different from some, but all stars still. Statistically, what we know is: Every star is a sun, Every sun has 9 planets, 1 out of every 9 planets HAS LIFE. Statistically, even if you take out the "Every sun has 9 planets" part. It is STATISTICALLY true, that 1/9 of planets has life.

I appreciate your speculation about alien life, I find the subject interesting as well, but I question what you mean by the above. To say "Which thing happened the most amount of times, that one is proven" is not a fair description of science, unless we are narrowing our description to include only experimental results based on observation. We do not simply say "This coin drops to the ground 100% of the times I let it go, therefore gravity is true." So any approximation that 1/9 planets supports life is not a reflection of science at all. It is also not a reflection of statistics, since we know of the existence of many many planets, specifically 677 extrasoloar planets to date. So to be true statistically you would have to again narrow the confines of statistics to include only the planets in our solar system, which is fine, but not a valid way to suppose the chance of life in the universe.

The problem of estimating life in the milky way is tackled by the drake equation, it seems you might be interested in it. There are far too many unknows to depend on an accurate answer, so at this stage we can only identify the variables we need to know to arrive at the answer.

 

[cannabineer]

So then, it would be safe to assume that, the civilizations who make it long enough to reach and colonize the depths of outer space, will be healthier than us? I would hope so...it's bad enough being in the fat and greedy country known as the USA, l'd hate for earth to be seen the same way on the galactic scale

Healthier than we are (if they're between the stars already)? Quite possibly. I just hope that they do not find us to be ... delicious.
cheers 'neer

 

[Finshaggy]

I took the unknowns and replaced them with the usable knowns, I think that's why you are confused. And without those 677 planets, the math works out perfect. And I can't include those because they haven't been fully examined, and I'm sure they didn't notice every one that was seen by the telescope. And I'm sure they didn't see plant life and stuff if that's all that was on a planet.

That is a very fair description of science. You preform an experiment, something happened. You try it again, something happened. Try it again, again, again. What is considered the end result proving or disproving your hypothesis? Whichever one was repeated the most times, or even whatever happened EVERY time. Right?

The Scientific Theorem is only meant to include experimental results based on observation by human or machine. Science does not allow that which has never been observed to be proven. It is only a theory, until you can recreate the scenario and prove your theory fits, by showing people. Like even Einstein had to get a picture of light bending around the sun to prove relativity. Noone would accept it until he did.

The coin example is EXACTLY how science is handled. We accept gravity, because we see things fall all the time. Even though gravity has been disproven, some science STILL accepts it. Because it worked over and over so many times before.

It is a reflection of STATISTICS...So math not science.

WE STATISTICALLY CAN ONLY NARROW IT DOWN TO OUR SOLAR SYSTEM. WE HAVE NO MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN THAT. SO WE HAVE TO NARROW IT THAT WAY.

I wasn't including planets that have been found past the Hubble telescope, because all of those planets have not been fully examined yet, and I'm sure they all haven't even been found.

 

[olylifter420]

What is QFT!?