Luger187
Well-Known Member
oh also i think parrots are too.
[video=youtube;WgJl4bONOqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJl4bONOqc[/video]
Do you think animals think of suicide?
- Thread starter Hepheastus420
- Start date
[video=youtube;WgJl4bONOqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJl4bONOqc[/video]
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
From Wikipedia:
"The most widely used test for self-awareness in animals is the mirror test, developed by Gordon Gallup during the 1970s, in which a temporary dye is placed on an animal's body, and the animal is then presented with a mirror. Some scientists still disagree with these findings, arguing that the results of these tests are open to human interpretation and susceptible to the Clever Hans effect. This test is much less definitive than when used for primates, because primates can touch the mark or the mirror, while dolphins cannot, making their alleged self-recognition behavior less certain. Critics argue that behaviors that are said to identify self-awareness resemble existing social behaviors, and so researchers could be misinterpreting social responses to another dolphin. The researchers counter-argue that the behaviors shown to evidence self-awareness are very different from normal responses to another dolphin, including paying significantly more attention to another dolphin than towards their mirror image. Dr. Gallup termed the results "the most suggestive evidence to date" of mirror self-recognition in dolphins, but "not definitive" because he was not certain that the dolphins were not interpreting the image in the mirror as another animal. Whereas apes can merely touch the mark on themselves with their fingers, dolphins show less definitive behavior of self-awareness, twisting and turning themselves to observe the mark."
Imo this demotes cetacean self-awareness from Fact to Maybe. Jmo. I am strict about what I mark as fact.
cheers 'neer
<edit> The whole mirror test thing ... I think of it as suggestive, not conclusive. Too much anthropocentric interpretation going on ...
"The most widely used test for self-awareness in animals is the mirror test, developed by Gordon Gallup during the 1970s, in which a temporary dye is placed on an animal's body, and the animal is then presented with a mirror. Some scientists still disagree with these findings, arguing that the results of these tests are open to human interpretation and susceptible to the Clever Hans effect. This test is much less definitive than when used for primates, because primates can touch the mark or the mirror, while dolphins cannot, making their alleged self-recognition behavior less certain. Critics argue that behaviors that are said to identify self-awareness resemble existing social behaviors, and so researchers could be misinterpreting social responses to another dolphin. The researchers counter-argue that the behaviors shown to evidence self-awareness are very different from normal responses to another dolphin, including paying significantly more attention to another dolphin than towards their mirror image. Dr. Gallup termed the results "the most suggestive evidence to date" of mirror self-recognition in dolphins, but "not definitive" because he was not certain that the dolphins were not interpreting the image in the mirror as another animal. Whereas apes can merely touch the mark on themselves with their fingers, dolphins show less definitive behavior of self-awareness, twisting and turning themselves to observe the mark."
Imo this demotes cetacean self-awareness from Fact to Maybe. Jmo. I am strict about what I mark as fact.
cheers 'neer
<edit> The whole mirror test thing ... I think of it as suggestive, not conclusive. Too much anthropocentric interpretation going on ...
Luger187
Well-Known Member
well all they would need to do is try the mirror test with a wild dolphin
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Afraid not. Imo we run into the "what's it like to be a bat?" problem. We necessarily see things through the human sensorium and environment.
http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/nagel_nice.html
(I wish I knew how to make the quoted question a link to the indicated url.)
There's the Turing test, but it doesn't directly test self-awareness, but mimicry.
cheers 'neer
http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/nagel_nice.html
(I wish I knew how to make the quoted question a link to the indicated url.)
There's the Turing test, but it doesn't directly test self-awareness, but mimicry.
cheers 'neer
darkdestruction420
Well-Known Member
according to the professor from futurama dissecting the brain does the trick. we never find out because leela stops him from dissecting the "fishy joes popler"s(really the young of omicron persei 8 ) brain though.....
Luger187
Well-Known Member
to make text a link, copy the link and type the text out. highlight the text, and click on the earth icon above where you type thats called insert link. paste the link and hit ok
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
metaltooths
Well-Known Member
animals aren't convoluted like humans.
You've never heard of male Bottle nosed Dolphins raping female dolphin and even divers?
[youtube]LvpJdNiqZJc[/youtube]
No lol Still bet it aint on a daily basis they aint got dolphin porn
Its a lot more common than you might know.
The Cryptkeeper
Well-Known Member
LOL Some wild animals are notorious for their suicidal tendencies. =) So yes.
Really what ones?
Luger187
Well-Known Member
look at post 14 in this thread
The Cryptkeeper
Well-Known Member
Fighter termites intentionally kill themselves in a kamikaze style suicide in order to murder swarms of their enemies. =) Pretty cool actually.
Luger187
Well-Known Member
hmm ill have to look into that. also what about bees?! when they sting you their guts come out. im not sure if they realize that will happen though. maybe they just have the urge to sting, and them dying is an unintentional result.
you would think bees would evolve so they dont die lol