Is it me or do only a select few only truly understand soil and water pH!!!!

dirtysnowball

dirtysnowball

Well-Known Member
your right, i too dislike grow guides, but i sight many many references.... after i do a big test/experiment myself i will finalize my short guide. i will have a few "control plants" to compare to. it will show what mj needs but it will only be a ball park figure cuz all plants are different. you will like it a lot, it will be on par with a college study. my guide just sums up the each nute with a few short descriptive words. and its more geared for new growers. i do mention one type of fertilizer in there, "something balanced", basically because the ease of use, and to avoid the massive amount of deficiency problems i see in the plant problems forum all day. i like to answer the questions there to sharpen my skills, its been working very well.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Mr Gronn is on the same page as me, i agree but only till someone proves us wrong. I see water has little effect on soil pH and as you say it is down to the soil and ferts of which the ferts can be easily flushed thus curing a pH problem quickly, these ferts are what soil runoff is all about and nothing to do with soil pH.

I didnt know that about the Nitrogen but new info is good for the brain always. This thread has so much good info in it and some good opinions by all. Can we say that water pH dosent really matter yet and its all to do with the soil and ferts or have we got someone who dispute this? Peace
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
dirtysnowball said:
your right, i too dislike grow guides, but i sight many many references.... after i do a big test/experiment myself i will finalize my short guide. i will have a few "control plants" to compare to. it will show what mj needs but it will only be a ball park figure cuz all plants are different. you will like it a lot, it will be on par with a college study. my guide just sums up the each nute with a few short descriptive words. and its more geared for new growers. i do mention one type of fertilizer in there, "something balanced", basically because the ease of use, and to avoid the massive amount of deficiency problems i see in the plant problems forum all day. i like to answer the questions there to sharpen my skills, its been working very well.
Click to expand...
Yer just very sceptical about grow guides, i give my seedlings about 150 ppm of ferts after the first true leaves show or i start to get underfed in my weak seedling soil, others might have stronger seedling soil and would not be advised to do this. There are so many variables for the new grower that every possible scenario needs to be taken into account.

I only want better stickies for reasons like this thread, if we could get some basic solid info up there for somethings we wouldnt have to debate them time and time again, the rest of the problems can be answered in the forum. Peace
 
G

gobskiii

Well-Known Member
i dont PH my water either...i have tested my tap water, and it is normally a7 7 or 7.1-7.2...so i water with normal tap water, and add my nutes...i use fox farms line-up and im sure PH drops when i use the nutrients, but still...never had any problems.
 
DrFever

DrFever

New Member
whats there really not to understand ??? about ph for instance my last grow plants in flower seemed to completely stop growing
my soil stayed wet so after 10 days i said fck it
I flushed low and behold my runoff ph was 5.3 my ppm over 2000 i was like holy crap so i continued to flush with 6.8 ph'd water till my run off was 6.5 + and my ppm was 900 within 2 days plants took right off growing like crazy
thats the importance of ph i realized then this problem happened about 2 weeks earlier being my ppm was so high and if my ph was in check plants would of done well and not stopped there growing
some ppl are lucky there tap water is in check but i believe to get the best possible yields you need to keep your medium in check if it fluctuates all the time is this a good thing ??? prob not
if your one of the few that doesnt ph there fluids then your lucky
 
DrFever

DrFever

New Member
. Soil pH

Soil pH is a measure of your soil's acidity (sourness, a measure of below 7.0) or alkalinity (sweetness, a measure higher than 7.0), with 7.0 being neutral. Most garden plants prefer a pH in the neutral range. Some plants are more specific in their requirements. Lilacs and clematis thrive in sweet soils. Rhododendrons and blueberries like a lower pH. You can adjust the pH in different parts of your landscape.
Generally speaking, if your plants are growing healthy and well, your pH is probably fine. If your plants are having nutrient problems or are not growing vigorously, it’s worth it to test your pH. If the soil’s pH is not within an acceptable range for the plants you are growing, the plants will not be able to access the nutrients in the soil, no matter how much you feed them.
You can buy many types of pH testers in a garden center. You can also bring a sample into your local Cooperative Extension office, to be tested for a nominal fee. Once you know what your pH is, you can begin to adjust it slowly. You add some form of lime to raise pH and a form of sulfur to lower it. What type and how much depends upon your soil and test results. Your Extension report and most testing kits will tell you what to do once you get your results. Adding lime or sulfur to alter soil pH is not a quick fix. It can take months to register a change in the pH and you will need to periodically retest your soil to insure it doesn’t revert to its old pH. It is sometimes easier to simply change your plants to suit your pH.
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
DrFever said:
whats there really not to understand ??? about ph for instance my last grow plants in flower seemed to completely stop growing
my soil stayed wet so after 10 days i said fck it
I flushed low and behold my runoff ph was 5.3 my ppm over 2000 i was like holy crap so i continued to flush with 6.8 ph'd water till my run off was 6.5 + and my ppm was 900 within 2 days plants took right off growing like crazy
thats the importance of ph i realized then this problem happened about 2 weeks earlier being my ppm was so high and if my ph was in check plants would of done well and not stopped there growing
some ppl are lucky there tap water is in check but i believe to get the best possible yields you need to keep your medium in check if it fluctuates all the time is this a good thing ??? prob not
if your one of the few that doesnt ph there fluids then your lucky
Click to expand...
so you flushed and your plants got better?

sounds like "lock out" to me. ;)

20 years, 100 + grows, and every single one of them "i've been lucky". i'm going to VEGAS baby. :hump:
 
eDude

eDude

Well-Known Member
so late on this one but I have my .02..

pH can be important at extremes just like everything else in the world. So, in soil, it wouldn't be my main concern as long as the plants were looking good. If I moved to a new area, it might be helpful to know the soils pH before I do alot of work and have a crapy yeild. Same with the water. I'd like to know where it's at.. I grow in soil and haven't checked my pH in years. But, I did at one time and saw that I was in the ballpark with my rountine. So, untill there is a major problem I'm good. Hydro guys have it much harder cause it's more raw to the root of the plant and the is no soil to buffer the pH for the plant. If I was going to do hydro then I'd have to get on the pH thing.

BUFFERS!!!

Strange stuff, that and chelation.. Buffers are a way of having 'self pHing' nutes. In a nut shell you have pH down in side a bubble and the bubble will burst if the pH goes too high. Thus releasing the pH down and lowering the pH until no more of the 'bubbles' pop causing the pH to level out.

[video=youtube;g_ZK2ABUjvA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ZK2ABUjvA[/video]

Chelation is when they take something that the plant can only absorb in a narrow pH band and wrap it in something that is more 'attative' to the plant in a broader pH range.

[video=youtube;kGba1eGTnwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGba1eGTnwA[/video]

[video=youtube;GGN2ci-lYhE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGN2ci-lYhE[/video]
 
TwistedGenetics

TwistedGenetics

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the post, eDude. You mentioned a very important central topic.
When learning chemistry, after being taught what pH is and how to calculate it along with pOH, and [H+] (concentration of hydrogen ion), buffered solutions is covered, thoroughly.

You could theoretically mix your own buffered hydroponic nutrients from stock reagents based on your own calculations, with only one year schooling in undergraduate inorganic chemistry. They would be pretty lengthy calculations, not like the one pagers given for exams which usually only account for two common ions. But you could do it. :)

GET OUT TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND TAKE SOME CHEMISTRY COURSES, PEOPLE!!
 
Dankster4Life

Dankster4Life

Well-Known Member
TwistedGenetics said:
GET OUT TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND TAKE SOME CHEMISTRY COURSES, PEOPLE!!
Click to expand...
I am one to not discredit education but your not stating that college knowledge or any knowledge of any thing you mentioned is needed to grow some prime smoke are you?

College Knowledge.....you like that?Sounds better with a good indica buzz.:hump:
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Dankster4Life said:
I am one to not discredit education but your not stating that college knowledge or any knowledge of any thing you mentioned is needed to grow some prime smoke are you?

College Knowledge.....you like that?Sounds better with a good indica buzz.:hump:
Click to expand...
Yer man i'm with Dankster, i watched all the three videos and i couldn't take much out of them.

I did write a reply but in doing so had to go through a lot of chemistry and biology which definatly wasn't cool man! I dont mind research but im not trying to do a degree in buffers here.

Anyway we grow plants so please keep it to a plant level and please explain futher, not much of it could i directly correlate to marijuana although i did try. I could post my response in a video format but i feel much better understanding comes from written words. Peace dude
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Right so after all that research i have a few points to make and maybe a conclusion. We already know that too high and too low pH values will affect the roots badly through shock so lets assume we all have water and feed within a certain acceptable range for my next sentiment-

So soil contains natural alkalines like lime etc etc When we add water the alkalines cancel out the acidity of the water or acidic elements held with in the water solution. The soil alkalines go through a chemical reaction which neutralises the acidic water and hence renders them useless. Now with lime constantly producing more and more alkalines the pH buffering will continue till the lime is exshauted or more is added.

There truly seems no reason whatsoever to pH water and feeds if you have enough alkalines/lime in your soil. The same chemical reactions are can be seen wether pH'ing your water and nutes before adding to the soil or by the lime once added to the soil.

Now why didnt i realise that easy assumption, case closed basically - Either ph your water or add the required amount of lime to your soil (which all good pot growers do) both produce the same chemical reaction of neutralisation of acicic elements! Basically stick that in your chemistry pipes and smoke it!!!!!

And i think we'd all prefer to go down the lime in soil route not pre pH'ing water as our soil will also release acidic compounds from decomposotion of such materials as peat etc and simply pH'ing water would not mean we neutralise soil acidity merely that we dont add to it.

EUREKA - CASE SOLVED! Finally.

And let me just say you are looking at the problem the wrong way round!!!! Ask not how the water affects the soil but ask how the soil affects the water!!!! Peace
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top