Help me design a low-profile RDWC setup!

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
(Nick Riviera voice) Hello ev'rybody!!!

I am tiptoeing back into indoor agriculture after 11 years of lying fallow. I used to run NFT, but I don't want to do that for a coupla reasons.
1) I'm in a rented house, and I don't want the bulky items associated with NFT. I imagine that they'd be a complete bitch to very quickly relocate should a landlord appear.
2) I needed considerable vertical space, since the reservoir had to be below the drain end of the NFT troughs. I don't really have that now, what with the space I need to leave for a good light, probably a 600W HPS supp'd with T5s running actinic bulbs.

So I'm settling on DWC as a good modular way to at least get going until I've accumulated the research (and cash!!) for something more sophisticated, like maybe aeroponics, when I get a grow space that I own. I want to feed the buckets from a common reservoir. I want to use buckets and reservoir so I can "one-stop shop" when adjusting pH and EC.
I cannot sink the reservoir below floor level.
For a pure-gravity system I'd need to put the bottoms of the DWC buckets above the fill mark in my main reservoir. This would waste over a foot of vertical space. I'd like to have a way circulate my nutewater that does not rely on floats or other level sensors. I also want a system that actively returns overflow to the reservoir, and can drain the buckets on demand for efficient nute servicing. My question is: how?

I'm imagining a four-bucket setup in the grow space that receives nute from the res by active pumping. The buckets drain by gravity into a separate container (which I'll call a catch bucket) that ideally is outside the grow space alongside my outboard res.
Is there a pump that'll send outflow from that bucket into the reservoir, scavenge all the fluid (except maybe half an inch) from the bottom of the bucket, and not mind slurping some air during the process? Or that will turn itself on when liquid is there, then off at some minimum fluid level?
More to the point, is such a pump cheap to buy and operate?

If this does not look like it'll work, can someone suggest a way to run RDWC such that I can have this outboard res? I need that res to mind and adjust pH, temp, EC and of course water level. I want the system to be "gravity safe", no spills, in case of a power outage or a failure in any active fluid-handling component. If I'm asking too much or otherwise (cough!!) :eyesmoke:on drugs:eyesmoke: ... talk to me!!

Stray questions.
1) Any experience here with continuous pH monitoring?
2) Any suggestions for a CO2 meter that reads from 0 to say 2000 ppm, has a continuous remote readout (i.e. sensor in the grow space but readout a wall away) and won't break the bank?

PS I like to formulate my own nutrient from scratch. They worked brilliantly for my NFT, but even with a buffer added I had to bring pH down every day. Thus my interest in a continuous pH monitor that really truly works.
cheers 'neer
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
why dont you just run an undercurrent system? that way you can just kill the rez, catch bucket and height problem with one stone. you can make it to any size you want and it is just such an effective system. i have been doing my homework too and this looks like the best dwc method hands down and its the path im going to take.


[video=youtube;7cLeJPl3Ml0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cLeJPl3Ml0&feature=related[/video]
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
just get one of these to monitor you temps, ph, and ppms. with a undercurrent system every plant is exactly the same everything. temp,ppm,ph, etc. plus water changes once every 3 weeks so it saves money on nutes. its just a great system imho.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-in-1-pH-C-F-ORP-EC-CF-TDS-Meter-Tester-Thermometer-/250882021855?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a69bbd9df

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Control-Wizard-24-7-pH-TDS-Temp-Nutrient-Meter-Hydro-/350464039054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519948d88e
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Hi Mrfootball420

I actually spent an hour just now researching the Undercurrent system and its DIY congeners. I kind of insist on the outboard reservoir. The system in the vid keeps the water distributed ... if I do a pH adjust in that scrawny control reservoir, how long before the entire liquid charge is homogeneous? I want to mix my nutes 100 liters at a time to service 1 to 5 buckets.

The other big disadvantage of Undercurrent is that it looks rigid. And it contains a float from a raised water source. Me allergic to floats ... I had one fail once. :(Never Again.:( Especially since I'll be on carpet that is "not mine".
cheers 'neer

I'm not trying to be difficult. It sort a comes naturally. (embarrassed shrug)
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
Hi Mrfootball420

I actually spent an hour just now researching the Undercurrent system and its DIY congeners. I kind of insist on the outboard reservoir. The system in the vid keeps the water distributed ... if I do a pH adjust in that scrawny control reservoir, how long before the entire liquid charge is homogeneous? I want to mix my nutes 100 liters at a time to service 1 to 5 buckets.

The other big disadvantage of Undercurrent is that it looks rigid. And it contains a float from a raised water source. Me allergic to floats ... I had one fail once. :(Never Again.:( Especially since I'll be on carpet that is "not mine".
cheers 'neer

I'm not trying to be difficult. It sort a comes naturally. (embarrassed shrug)
the size of the rez doesnt matter with the system in the vid. its just a control bucket for adding nutes. an undercurrent system should cycle itself at least 5 times an hr. so the huge setup in the video would take about 5-10 minutes to be completely mixed and balanced. and thats 136 gallons i think.

you can still use an outside larger rez with the undercurrent thats not a problem. and there also isnt any rule saying you have to use a float valve for your fresh water. you can always add water by hand if thats what makes you happy.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
the size of the rez doesnt matter with the system in the vid. its just a control bucket for adding nutes. an undercurrent system should cycle itself at least 5 times an hr. so the huge setup in the video would take about 5-10 minutes to be completely mixed and balanced. and thats 136 gallons i think.

you can still use an outside larger rez with the undercurrent thats not a problem. and there also isnt any rule saying you have to use a float valve for your fresh water. you can always add water by hand if thats what makes you happy.
Mrfootball420, I do appreciate your replies. I will not go with an Undercurrent system. It is rigid - not modular or configurable. I see all that PVC piping with joints, and assembled in my hands the system screams LEAK. I assume the joints have to be glued, which speaks poorly for prospects of breaking it down and reassembling it. Bulk is a prime reason why I am nixing NFT, which has the central reservoir feature that I like so much.

So Judge Mental (a superhero for the insane!!!) has issued a ruling: No on Undercurrent. Connections to and from the buckets must be flexible, configurable and suitable for multiple assembly and disassembly. Bonus points for running buckets in parallel as opposed to series ...

All that said - thanks for making me think! cheers 'neer
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Uniseals ... had to look them up. They do seem like good stuff. Never mind what I said about leaks.

Nonetheless I would like to invite some more comments. This site must abound with savvy DIYers who can recommend alternatives. I'm not dissing the Countercurrent system. It just is not for me. cheers 'neer
 

reverof

Active Member
Just for thought, but what about a flood & drain setup? very easy to make, very easy to manage and very easy to tear down and move. I run 1 myself that I made (in my sig), it allows for plants up to 6 feet though none of my plants have ever gotten over 5' tall. will grow 6 plants very comfortably.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
reverof, I like ebb&flow. I used it to veg the planties that went on into my NFT flowering setup way back when. My concern with ebb&flow (that is the same as flood and drain, nu?) is that the bottom of the e&f table had to be above my reservoir return. This ate vertical space.
I am looking for a way to design a reasonably "fabricable" hydroponic setup that will allow me to use my vertical space well.
I don't want to come off all high&mighty (I am 1 for 2 on that score, and :joint:guess :blsmoke:which :joint:one) and talk about "specifications", but just for the sake of shits&giggles let's consider these three attributes as "design specifications".

1) Minimal vertical footprint
2) Outboard reservoir for generous excess nutrient; it's my Home Plate where I'll mix nutes, tend to pH etc.
3) A bombproof failure mode. If the power quits, no floods!! Bonus: if the power quits, the lady/ies should be ok untended for a few hours...

I thank Mrfootball420 for suggesting Under Current, but it fails item 2. Other personal "dislikes" include a rigid setup (after educating myself about Uniseals I retract my objection in re one-time assembly) and the fact that the smallish control bucket, called Epicenter (tm) by the manufacturer, a) sits under the lights, and b) mandates an offset footprint for the 4-station system, their smallest and the only one that would *b*a*r*e*l*y* fit my 4x4 space. I'd effectively be lighting 4x4 but only planting 3x4. My gut tells me "there has to be a more elegant way to fill the space".


n.b If you have a way to do e&f "flat", without stacking table and res, rest assured that I'll stand up on my hind legs, point my ears forward and give you my full attention!
cheers 'neer
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
This thread is not generating much interest. I don't know why ... I am directly appealing to the community for help.
I consider it unlikely that none of the experienced indoor growers here have never faced the constraints andor conditions I am describing (or ones so close that cross experience is valuable). I am failing to inspire that person(s) to speak up here.
Advice on remedying this?
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
I had height issues which lead me to dwc. There was a lot of questions. Where are you in your thought process now? I run 9 bucket systems. (Warning - Don't look too closely or you might see a float valve.)

Round 3 Happy Babies PoK.jpgFlower Room 9 buckets.jpg
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
BendBrewer:
Thank you for injecting some humor into my day! I admit - my feelings about float valves are, uhm, a bit special. You seem to be using yours from a low-pressure source (raised supply?) out of frame, for keeping your fluid level stable. It's when I looked up "rdwc controller" and found an *octopus bucket!* with float valves inside managing active pumping. That, combined with post-traumatic memories of the demon-possessed swamp cooler at a prev. house, and its appetite for 3 float valves in one season (Fortunately this cooler was attached to the outside of the house. The resultant flood, instead of a life-changing disaster, merely led to gardening decisions.) left me with an irrational trust issue there.

About your system:
1) What size pvc fittings, and how attached to the buckets?
2) The duct-tape-covered bits in between the fittings. What are they? Flexible tubing? What size?
3) Total system capacity? How did you remove the spent nute charge? I'm considering getting a "Little Giant" bottom sucker pump so i can run the spents about 30 feet and slightly uphill to a bathtub drain. Might have to reverse the system to fill the res from same bathtub. Fortunately the local water is excellent.
(just curious) I'm guessing a 1000 watt HPS to service that array? <edit> on closer inspection, maybe a 600.</edit> What's your fav strain, and what sort of yield? I'm thinking of a 600W hps for my 4x4 space, eventually supp'd by T5 aquarium lamps of the "actinic" variety. <edit again> Duh. Just started following your journal link ... will find many answers there. Sweeeet! </edit>

As to where in my thinking I am ... kind a stalled. I am leaning toward a setup rather like yours, but with flexible (pvc?) tubing connecting the buckets to the res' return port. That way I can play with bucket count and arrangement while I gain experience ... since I have not yet done dwc of my own. How do you like the top feed arrangement you have?

last but not least - +rep for the flip-flop! I live in flip-flops.
cheers 'neer
 
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