My Feelings On Illegal Immigration, Do They Make Me a Hypocrite?

[Thundakat85]

"Public schools are forbidden to ask about a student’s citizenship status, and adults do not fill out federal census reports. But the report estimated that educating undocumented students from kindergarten through high school costs $957 million last year."

That's not a drain on the economy? Not only do parents not have to document themselves and be counted or be held accountable for anything, they get free education for their children?

 

[UncleBuck]

"Public schools are forbidden to ask about a student’s citizenship status, and adults do not fill out federal census reports. But the report estimated that educating undocumented students from kindergarten through high school costs $957 million last year."

That's not a drain on the economy? Not only do parents not have to document themselves and be counted or be held accountable for anything, they get free education for their children?

it ain't free.

you neglect to mention that if they live here, they pay property taxes, which fund schools.

This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.

The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received.

 

[Thundakat85]

First, have you seen the physical document, or did you just hear about it? Good for you, I dont care how many times you visit el paso, do you live here and see it every day?
Second, smoking is not quite the same, nice try tho. That argument because lame some time ago. How is comparing a victimless crime with basically stealing from america the same thing?
Last, illegal immigration doesnt affect it directly, but still has an impact. what do you think happens to it?

 

[Thundakat85]

it ain't free.

you neglect to mention that if they live here, they pay property taxes, which fund schools.

lol, paying property tax on what?? how can 11 people in a 2 bedroom pay property tax?

 

[Thundakat85]

ok, fine, ill ask you this. Just because they're pumping money into the economy, does that make it right?

 

[UncleBuck]

First, have you seen the physical document, or did you just hear about it? Good for you, I dont care how many times you visit el paso, do you live here and see it every day?
Second, smoking is not quite the same, nice try tho. That argument because lame some time ago. How is comparing a victimless crime with basically stealing from america the same thing?
Last, illegal immigration doesnt affect it directly, but still has an impact. what do you think happens to it?

i am having trouble understanding your questions, but i will try.

yes, the report is easily findable online, it is a pdf document.

and my being in el paso was mentioned just to compliment the people there. they really are nice, almost portland nice.

and i was pointing out that smoking weed can cause harm, just like illegal immigration. but often, you just smoke peacefully in your house and the illegal just does an honest day's work and pays taxes he will never benefit from.

the final question i simply have no idea what you are talking about. please clarify.

 

[UncleBuck]

lol, paying property tax on what?? how can 11 people in a 2 bedroom pay property tax?

that is a stereotype, which bears a grain of truth, but is still a stereotype nonetheless.

it hints at prejudice, which is a stepping stone to bigotry.

 

[UncleBuck]

ok, fine, ill ask you this. Just because they're pumping money into the economy, does that make it right?

are they hurting anyone by coming here to work? georgia farmers are letting their crops rot in the field right now because they have no one willing to work 8 hours a day in the hot sun. they can't even force probationers to do it (i said inmates at first, i was wrong).

the cartels and the bums are another story. but many simply come here to work, get a false ss, pay taxes, spend money in the local economy, and are more or less law abiding (i'm sure some like to smoke pot or speed or whatever, just like you or me).

i may be up in oregon, but my town of hillsboro is dubbed 'hillsburrito'. just because i am not close to the border does not mean i am not privy to the effect of the illegals.

does it make it right? depends. have to go case by case. the cartels and bums we can block out. those that come here to work? another story. my short answer is that i would not fault someone for stealing bread to feed their starving family, or for jumping ahead in line, or for disobeying a broken law.

long answer involves reforming immigration to allow those that need workers to find legal workers, a streamlining of sorts.

 

[Thundakat85]

that is a stereotype, which bears a grain of truth, but is still a stereotype nonetheless.

it hints at prejudice, which is a stepping stone to bigotry.

stereotype???? lol, I know of 2 apartments in my complex with 10+ people living in them, so don't talk to me about "stereotyping" when I know it to be fact. Prejudice and bigotry are big words you have no business putting in peoples mouths, hinting or otherwise. You also avoided my question with going straight to racism, something I have not done. Just because most of the illegals here happen to be mexican doesn't mean all mexicans are illegal nor does it make all illegals mexican, I've said that several times. Im so sick of people acting like just because they do a good days work it means we can sit here and let it be ok for them to be illegal. Give me a break, I don't smoke weed to make money, or profit. Yes, i know it's illegal, but I dont have to be smoking it all the time or be high all the time. Illegals are illegals all the time, no matter what. These people are coming here to profit, and doing it illegally. Its not a matter of morals. Its a matter of law, why does everyone keep avoiding that. If you do it legally, great, come on over. I'll help you look for work.

 

[medicalmaryjane]

You don't pay property tax if you don't own. the owner pays poperty tax for the unit you live in... I think public schools need to go away. people should pay for school.

 

[UncleBuck]

You don't pay property tax if you don't own. the owner pays poperty tax for the unit you live in... I think public schools need to go away. people should pay for school.

i'm pretty sure the property owner passes on that cost to the tenant. it would be stupid not to. businesses pass on costs to the end consumer: fact.

as far as abolishing public schools, name me one great nation that does not have a public education system in place.

 

[Thundakat85]

are they hurting anyone by coming here to work? georgia farmers are letting their crops rot in the field right now because they have no one willing to work 8 hours a day in the hot sun. they can't even force probationers to do it (i said inmates at first, i was wrong).

yes they are, they're hurting the constitution of the united states, guess that doesnt mean much to people anymore.

the cartels and the bums are another story. but many simply come here to work, get a false ss, pay taxes, spend money in the local economy, and are more or less law abiding (i'm sure some like to smoke pot or speed or whatever, just like you or me).

still doesnt make it right

does it make it right? depends. have to go case by case. the cartels and bums we can block out. those that come here to work? another story. my short answer is that i would not fault someone for stealing bread to feed their starving family, or for jumping ahead in line, or for disobeying a broken law.

thats what I'm talking about right there, just because you think its broken, why does that make it right to break the law? I know smoking is illegal, but I never said it was ok or right.

 

[UncleBuck]

stereotype???? lol, I know of 2 apartments in my complex with 10+ people living in them, so don't talk to me about "stereotyping" when I know it to be fact.

i said there was a grain of truth to it. i happen to think it to be smart of them to pool resources, rather than try to live somewhere they can't afford. don't you?

Prejudice and bigotry are big words you have no business putting in peoples mouths, hinting or otherwise. You also avoided my question with going straight to racism, something I have not done.

i didn't put them in your mouth, i said it "hints at". not every illegal is living ten to an apartment, ya know.

Im so sick of people acting like just because they do a good days work it means we can sit here and let it be ok for them to be illegal.

but if they just come, work, and don't harm anyone, how is it any worse than enjoying some cannabis? your cannabis use does not hurt anyone. every illegal i have known to be illegal was just getting by without hurting anyone while they worked and paid taxes under false ss numbers.

Its not a matter of morals. Its a matter of law, why does everyone keep avoiding that.

i do believe we started off this whole affair agreeing that legality is a bad basis for morality.

if they are moral people, who work, pay taxes (as most do), contribute to the local economy, and hurt no one, then what is the problem? do you just not like foreign looking people, or what?

the farmers in georgia sure wouldn't mind a few people looking for work right now.

 

[medicalmaryjane]

i'm pretty sure the property owner passes on that cost to the tenant. it would be stupid not to. businesses pass on costs to the end consumer: fact.

as far as abolishing public schools, name me one great nation that does not have a public education system in place.

name a great nation without publilc health care.

i am sure they do pass on the cost but renters aren't the owner - people dno't see them as paying taxes. i agree with what you're saying, even renters pay property tax, just indirectly.

 

[UncleBuck]

yes they are, they're hurting the constitution of the united states, guess that doesnt mean much to people anymore.

under the original constitution, women couldn't vote and blacks were owned as slaves.

you are grasping at straws.

thats what I'm talking about right there, just because you think its broken, why does that make it right to break the law? I know smoking is illegal, but I never said it was ok or right.

yet you smoke anyway.

rosa parks didn't think that it was right to be forced to the back of the bus. was she right to break the law?

thomas jefferson is credited with saying something along the lines of: if a law is unjust, a man is not only correct to disobey it, but obligated to do so.

the same thomas jefferson that texas voted to keep out of their history books

 

[UncleBuck]

name a great nation without publilc health care.

we won't be great for long if we keep paying twice as much as everyone else to not even cover all our citizens.

the idea of going bankrupt or losing your house due to medical bills is unheard of in nations with universal care. and they pay about half as much and often get better care.

only the ultra wealthy get that type of care around here.

 

[Thundakat85]

i said there was a grain of truth to it. i happen to think it to be smart of them to pool resources, rather than try to live somewhere they can't afford. don't you?

I suppose if they wanna life like that then so be it

i didn't put them in your mouth, i said it "hints at". not every illegal is living ten to an apartment, ya know.

never said that, but it all seems awfully coincidental.

but if they just come, work, and don't harm anyone, how is it any worse than enjoying some cannabis? your cannabis use does not hurt anyone. every illegal i have known to be illegal was just getting by without hurting anyone while they worked and paid taxes under false ss numbers.

I know quite a few illegals, it's all just a big joke to them.

i do believe we started off this whole affair agreeing that legality is a bad basis for morality.

This is true, but doesnt law trump morality to an extent? Im sorry, I just dont think its ok for us to start thinking it's just ok. I cant just start thinking its ok to smoke on the streets, then have the nerve to get mad when I get arrested.

if they are moral people, who work, pay taxes (as most do), contribute to the local economy, and hurt no one, then what is the problem? do you just not like foreign looking people, or what?

the farmers in georgia sure wouldn't mind a few people looking for work right now.

Maybe most where you live do, but I just dont see it here.

 

[Thundakat85]

under the original constitution, women couldn't vote and blacks were owned as slaves.

you are grasping at straws.



yet you smoke anyway.

rosa parks didn't think that it was right to be forced to the back of the bus. was she right to break the law?

thomas jefferson is credited with saying something along the lines of: if a law is unjust, a man is not only correct to disobey it, but obligated to do so.

the same thomas jefferson that texas voted to keep out of their history books

come on man, we live in different times. You can't just start a revolution anymore. Theres paperwork, red tape.
I'm not saying I agree also, but for the most part he was eliminated because of his beliefs if separation of church and state, and they're scared of what the effects would be when you have to start explaining about his love for 14 year old black girls.

 

[UncleBuck]

...for the most part he was eliminated because of his beliefs if separation of church and state, and they're scared of what the effects would be when you have to start explaining about his love for 14 year old black girls.

texas: scared of teaching history because of the truth therein.

can't say the liberal bastion i was raised in did much better, it took me a while to learn the real story of thanksgiving.

 

[Winter Woman]

Does Yiddish count as a language?

make it a mandatory class then, but for any language the student chooses. not just spanish.