Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Ya know, that sounds like a good plan. See, we don't disagree on everything
True HP Aero For 2011
- Thread starter Trichy Bastard
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Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Well, if nothing else the statement where they were running with an on time of 30 seconds (or was a couple minutes?). The one thing I've learned by reading enough times is that it's very important to do short blasts of mist, that's why the accumulator setup makes so much sense.. They said "an accumulator is not necessary"- and it wasn't since they were already happy with their results. But I wouldn't be happy with that, and I'm getting one...
The article mentioned 30 seconds mist from a standalone pump running 60psi, so the nozzles were the least of the problem. No apparent damage from the high chamber temps apart from losing some root hairs and that was user error from being overzealous with the pause timing, no biggy as they soon recover. It seems a short term spike in the chamber temp isnt detrimental if you increase the mist frequency slightly to ride it out. Obviously, the best plan is to keep the chamber temps within bounds so you dont have to
I`ll let you decide on the damage, these have been above 80F for a good 18hrs with a peak temp of 90F. Its been in the system for exactly 126hrs (5.25days) including the mini heatwave.
I`ll let you decide on the damage, these have been above 80F for a good 18hrs with a peak temp of 90F. Its been in the system for exactly 126hrs (5.25days) including the mini heatwave.
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Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Excellent for all to know. I think I will be running a constant experiment here in heat. Like I said, the annual daytime temps hover anywhere from 80-95f (27-35c) and usually 20f degrees cooler at night, so my 10gallon accumulator should also serve as a temp buffering device. I think the evaporative drawdown should be at least 10f degrees so I'd expect my pod temps to theoretically reach up to 85f (30c) on a regualr basis. If I have to, I can use my chiller and make some cooled "conduit" lines for the pex tubing running just prior to the solenoids, but I'd love to avoid that whole mess if possible. I am hoping to run this all off a 15 watt solar panel and 12v battery eventually. Humidity is also anywhere from 60-90%, so I have that to contend with as well. If I remember correctly, higher temps coupled with higher humidity may cause the stomata to close and transpiration to slow down, but I hope the tradewinds will help. Then again, the tropics are also renowned for producing quality outdoor plants, so I think I will live (I'm also at sea level so co2 concentrations should be decent)... Anyway- I'm hoping the increased efficiency of HPA will make up for any little shortcomings from the "perfect environment". Sorry for rambling on, I have been taking a huge amount of prednisone and it's definitely effecting me lately...The article mentioned 30 seconds mist from a standalone pump running 60psi, so the nozzles were the least of the problem. No apparent damage from the high chamber temps apart from losing some root hairs and that was user error from being overzealous with the pause timing, no biggy as they soon recover. It seems a short term spike in the chamber temp isnt detrimental if you increase the mist frequency slightly to ride it out. Obviously, the best plan is to keep the chamber temps within bounds so you dont have to
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
TB: Every time I grow outdoors during the summer rainy season I wind up with spider mites. First time I had two 5 ft bushes on the side of my house and didn't keep a watchful eye on them. Seems like out of no where, they were covered in mites. I lost both plants.
MikeY: Funny. Keep in mind any disagreements we might have that my comments (like pod depth ) are based on having completed 4 ~ HPA grows. On my last grow my roots were too long because I had no choice during the seedling stage than to use a min 30 sec timer. We all know that makes for a bunch of long tap roots. Once I was able to transfer them to the main pod, I raised the roots off the pod floor with a commercial lighting grate (hundreds of 3/8" squares- photo in my thread)), which worked fantastic. I had no problem with roots growing through it, nor up the side walls. Shortly after moving to the main pod, they developed fluffy root systems (I did not have this in my previous attempts) with root hairs/ This result WITHOUT an accumulator. Not that I am against them. hth
MikeY: Funny. Keep in mind any disagreements we might have that my comments (like pod depth ) are based on having completed 4 ~ HPA grows. On my last grow my roots were too long because I had no choice during the seedling stage than to use a min 30 sec timer. We all know that makes for a bunch of long tap roots. Once I was able to transfer them to the main pod, I raised the roots off the pod floor with a commercial lighting grate (hundreds of 3/8" squares- photo in my thread)), which worked fantastic. I had no problem with roots growing through it, nor up the side walls. Shortly after moving to the main pod, they developed fluffy root systems (I did not have this in my previous attempts) with root hairs/ This result WITHOUT an accumulator. Not that I am against them. hth
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Thanks- I know outdoors and mites may be an issue- I am hoping by being on a second story deck that I will be far enough away from some of the critters... I'm sure you already know that silicon deters spider mites as it imparts microscopic grains of sand into the leaves and stems that literally grind down their teeth- so they tend to eat those plants only as a last resort. I am interested in your metal grate idea, but couldn't locate the pics in your thread, can you tell me how to find it? (private message is ok too if it's from another board). Thanks Mr. Flora
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
And now- I'll post some links I found educational and useful along my internet meanderings From ph and nutes, to scaring off cats and (pesky teenagers?) 
http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/phfacts.html
http://vzj.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/3/1027
http://www.onhort.com/What-Really-Causes-Stretch-article2891
http://growersunderground.com/pH_Manifesto.pdf
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-disease-control/66208-cannabis-nutrient-deficiency-table-great.html
http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/pH.htm
http://www.rutec.com/Manual/NUTRIENTS.pdf
http://www.amazon.com/Contech-Electronics-CRO101-Scarecrow-Motion-Activated/dp/B000071NUS
http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/phfacts.html
http://vzj.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/3/1027
http://www.onhort.com/What-Really-Causes-Stretch-article2891
http://growersunderground.com/pH_Manifesto.pdf
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-disease-control/66208-cannabis-nutrient-deficiency-table-great.html
http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/pH.htm
http://www.rutec.com/Manual/NUTRIENTS.pdf
http://www.amazon.com/Contech-Electronics-CRO101-Scarecrow-Motion-Activated/dp/B000071NUS
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Ohh yes, and here is a new type of comprehensive nute calculator (haven't had time to play with it enough to see if it's good or not, but looks really cool)... This thing does everything, and it's capabilities definitely surpass my knowledge...
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Well, my water filter arrived with the 1 micron polyspun inserts. I chose those type of material because the other main option is vegetable cellulose which is basically a great medium to grow bacteria and algea. The polyspun material is bacteriostatic (anti-microbial). I'd take a picture, but it's just a typical clear plastic 10" whole house filter with the little red bleeder valve omitted (I'm using this on the suction side of the pump and I feared the valve would open under a vacuum and draw air in. I was please to blow a breath through the filter with the element installed and felt zero resistance. I just hope water will also find it's way through with such little drag- my preliminary guess is this will work fine... I don't suppose 1 microns would filter out any appreciable amount of the nutrient solution right?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Plastic, not metal. Note dual mist head swivels and articulates.
The lava Rock was an experiment to keeo roots from wandering down. I wound up taking it out . Hardly any roots grew down through it, but I wound up pulling this grow due to heat stress flipping all 4 plants to males. Sorry I did not take a photo when the root ball was much bigger
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
OK- thanks man- I'm familiar with that plastic mesh material for use in lighting systems. I don't know why, but those roots look like something from "The Excorcist" to me... I'm sorry the heat got to em, but I bet the topside was still just fine in any case and that's what really matters to most people. Somehow I'm becoming a stuck up "rootophile" oh god
... Do you always mist from the underside- if so, why have you decided on that route?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
These plants were left too long in my bubbler so they grew long tap roots. The beauty of mj is that it will grow under some pretty adverse conditions. So, yes the tops looked excellent and within a couple weeks the famous atomized roots developed.
Part of the reason why I mist from the bottom to compensate for not having nutes under constant pressure. By having the heads low (but aiming up) the few heavy droplets fall while the atomized mist rises to fill the pod. My mist heads throw mist at ~ 320 degrees, providing near full pod coverage each cycle.
Instead of having a dual head better to have 2 single heads, one on each side (note single head on the far right), but staggered for better coverage. One head can be higher the other lower to improve on vertical coverage. These heads are easy to install/move especially when using flex tubing. The threaded locking collar allows me to just drill a hole and move, so if they are positioned wrong, they can be moved in about 2 minutes. You want heads positioned to create max swirl and pod coverage, and since each pod volume to plant number is different it's handy to be flexible.
Part of the reason why I mist from the bottom to compensate for not having nutes under constant pressure. By having the heads low (but aiming up) the few heavy droplets fall while the atomized mist rises to fill the pod. My mist heads throw mist at ~ 320 degrees, providing near full pod coverage each cycle.
Instead of having a dual head better to have 2 single heads, one on each side (note single head on the far right), but staggered for better coverage. One head can be higher the other lower to improve on vertical coverage. These heads are easy to install/move especially when using flex tubing. The threaded locking collar allows me to just drill a hole and move, so if they are positioned wrong, they can be moved in about 2 minutes. You want heads positioned to create max swirl and pod coverage, and since each pod volume to plant number is different it's handy to be flexible.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Gotcha... You really have worked hard to try to get around all the shortcomings of going accumulatorless. I don't know anyone else with as much perseverance as you on the subject... I'd probably given up long ago, so that's why I'm just gonna take the plunge and do it from the get-go... I'll send you some pics so we can compare any differences once I get going...
rosecitypapa
Active Member
Hey Trichy, this looks to be an interesting grow and thread, pulling up a seat and taking notes, sub'd,...
Thanks for breaking down a detailed parts list. I'll start a build this fall/winter. Right now it's ghetto greenhouse baby! LuciferX's free grow software coupled with automation with the arduino is catching my fancy. Although the promise of automated pH dosing would be great to realize, as I understand it most hpa are setup dtw, correct?
Maybe I should reconsider and go hpa first and make pH monitoring and dosing unnecessary. But that would make my dwc investment null.
Thanks for breaking down a detailed parts list. I'll start a build this fall/winter. Right now it's ghetto greenhouse baby! LuciferX's free grow software coupled with automation with the arduino is catching my fancy. Although the promise of automated pH dosing would be great to realize, as I understand it most hpa are setup dtw, correct?
Maybe I should reconsider and go hpa first and make pH monitoring and dosing unnecessary. But that would make my dwc investment null.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Hey Rosecitypapa, yeah you have a tough choice. I really like the idea of goin DTW. To be honest the periostolic pumps and Arduino might cost more than the whole from scratch HPA setup... There are a few of us giving this HPA a go now, so perhaps the prudent choice for you would be to give a run out of your existing setup- maybe hold off on the automation expenses, and you can watch us make all our mistakes in the meanwhile. As you say- in the fall/winter you can make the change if you still feel it's worth it. Alot of people get reasonable results out of dwc, so you have to ask yourself, do you wanna grow, or just jump from system to system-right? The good news is if you have been in search of the ultimate way to grow- you've probably found your destination- although there are alot of personal preference variables involved too. There is going to be alot of tinkering and fine tuning with this setup, so you can compare what we have to deal with with what you are dealing with- and then decide if it's worth the difference for yourself... Thanks for your interest, the more the merrier!
thump easy
Well-Known Member
dam those r short ass plants and some big ass chamber i love it u guys r freekn asum i guess u dont have to worry about the roots cloging your chambers were can i get chamber like that cuz thats my problem now the water flow sucks its all the way up....
these r biger chamber than my lil square set up
these r biger chamber than my lil square set upTB, I run a LPA setup thats controlled by an arduino and some boards I designed and have fabbed and its very cost effective for what it does. I have it running my lights, pumps/solenoids, fans, ph, ppm, temp(x4)/humidity,etc... I am also in the process of creating an HPA setup that will be controlled off the same controller. the little relay boards can run about 15amps(rated 20) and can be wired remote I replaced the switch in the o3 gen with one for example. You can go however far you want with it really, from just cycling a couple solenoids to running a multitable/room EF or DWC.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
That sounds really cool Kdn... I am actually a tecchie gadgety type and love computers and automation. I have yet to really integrate it all into gardening though. At the moment I'm trying to put together this HPA system as "correct" as possible. I plan to run in the outdoors though (I live in year round 12/12 sun), so lighting and ozone are a non-issue, and I wouldn't need to control them, and with drain to waste, PH control is also a non-issue. I probably was too quick to estimate the costs, and I appreciate you enlightening me that it's not so bad. I guess there's just a point where I see so many noobs try to take on the most complicated system possible, without even having a soil grow under their belt, and it just turns into frustration for them and they never can even reap any of the benefits of their high tech system. With all of the hype, people forget that ol' fashioned soil can and does turn out very nice plants. I have to be careful to not be a hippocrite here too, as I'm taking on HPA while not having grown in 20 years. Since I'm leaving the light and air to mother nature, that only leaves nutrition, delivery method, and ph to me. I believe I will only have 2 main variables out of those with DTW- delivery method (and I've chosen a more challenging one I agree) and proper nuting (which is prety much a learning curve for any type of grow). So, once I get this down, I might very well incorporate some of the high tech control you have been playing with. Feel free to write about your system here as I find it interesting, and hopefully this thread will also help you find some help in the HPA aspect should you chose to adopt it. The people's work who inspired this thread are probably the best out there on the subject, and I think the specific way we're trying to do HPA here is probably the best method currently around any of the forums.
thump easy
Well-Known Member
man i dont understand a mother fucking thing all i know is i got some spacing isues so i ran my pvc pipe so i can get n open my chamber for a biger yeild n set option hoses n cleaneng gadgets i dont say because of the patent i got i drawing to scale like a house but difrent i get 3 per light i think thats dam well but lighting spacing n nutrient all combinde its doing me great n of course the strain.