Lost In A Sea Of Nutrients? Advanced Nutrients, Canna etc.

MasterS

MasterS

Well-Known Member
Homebrewer - Love your posts btw. I have been growing with Dutch Master Gold A + B. Prior to using it I looked for DynaGro which you recommended awhile ago but could only find the 8oz bottles at a local botanical store. Cost wise, Dutch Master Gold A + B is cheaper than DynaGro (For me). You say you get 1 Gallon (3.79L)for $45 dollars and I get 10Liters (total A + B) for $70 including tax. I use 7.7ml(A+B)/1Liter(H2O). What amounts ratio do you use for DynaGro? BTW I use the same nutrient amount from start to finish. (Al. B Fuct inspired) I'll send you a pic of my newest girls if you're curious to see 21 day old babies in that regime.

Edited: I should add I changed the res every 2 weeks. I'm sure you know Fuct's harvest every 2 weeks method. I have that being shadowed.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
hugetom80s said:
My experiences tell me the reverse is true.

Besides, if my comparison were to come out as I expect it to my own argument concerning bias would simply be turned on me. Until someone conducts a blind comparison study where the growers don't know which nutrients are which, the growers themselves will always be able to consciously or sub-consciously influence the results.
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You're over-thinking things bud. If my EC, pH, lighting system, flood and drain tables and the position in my room are all identical, then I would have no way to explain a hypothetical outcome of AN winning other than saying the winner is the superior product. The variables are controlled and the pictures will speak for themselves. As much as I wish my optimistic attitude would positively affect the yields of my grow regardless of what fertilizer I'm using, it doesn't. The minerals and their ratios do, however.

You do sound a bit worried though. My first run with DynaGro easily out-performed the GH 3part that I'd been using for years. Surely a fertilizer formulated specifically for cannabis by 12 PhDs will out perform a tired old formula like DynaGro, right? Not so far it hasn't.



MasterS Homebrewer - Love your posts btw. I have been growing with Dutch Master Gold A + B. Prior to using it I looked for DynaGro which you recommended awhile ago but could only find the 8oz bottles at a local botanical store. Cost wise, Dutch Master Gold A + B is cheaper than DynaGro (For me).
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DynaGro is cheap because it's one of the most highly concentrated nutrients that I've ever used. For example, a flood and drain grow that yields me 20 ounces only cost about $12 in fertilizer, or about 1/4 of a gallon of nutes over 9 weeks.

I use 7.7ml(A+B)/1Liter(H2O). What amounts ratio do you use for DynaGro?
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I only use 5-6mls per gallon of DG base nutes and half that in dirt.
 
hugetom80s

hugetom80s

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
You're over-thinking things bud. If my EC, pH, lighting system, flood and drain tables and the position in my room are all identical, then I would have no way to explain a hypothetical outcome of AN winning other than saying the winner is the superior product. The variables are controlled and the pictures will speak for themselves. As much as I wish my optimistic attitude would positively affect the yields of my grow regardless of what fertilizer I'm using, it doesn't. The minerals and their ratios do, however.
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If you're not aware of and/or won't acknowledge the scientifically proven impact of personal bias on the scientific process there really isn't any reason to continue the conversation.

homebrewer said:
You do sound a bit worried though.
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What could I possibly have to be worried about?
 
B

Bill C

Member
I've been seeing a commercial on TV lately about a paint that is also a primer, as it does both jobs. When comparing the final result of this product against a primer coat alone, then of course the primer/paint will win. Likewise, if it was compared to a top coat alone, I'm sure it will be more resistant to peeling, etc. But does it really stand up to a full primer coat followed by a top coat? Yes it is easier & cheaper, but does it have better end results?

I somehow get the feeling this comparison is similar. Comparing an all-in-one product like DG against the base nutes of AN alone doesn't really prove anything as far as effectiveness of any particular line of nutes. Who is going to spend the money on AN base nutes only and not spend the extra on the extras, or would even use a base nute alone? This is true of AN, GH, FF, Humbolt, etc. etc. Even DG has ProTek added.

What prefer seeing is full line against full line. If one line has a dozen bottles and the other line only has two bottles, then so be it as that would be more of a real world test of one line against another. Or at least base nutes only, and not use one line's extra on both sides and call it fair, although I'd lay money DG would still whup AN's butt in that case. I don't think anyone would argue with the results you are obtaining, as everyone agrees the AN primer coat alone is not sufficient to paint that wall. I'm not trying to take sides here, just trying to make an observation. Sometimes paying more does pay off. If this were not the case, we'd all be using generic brand Miracle Grow from Wal-Mart. It is up to the individual grower to determine if the increase in yield/potency/whatever is worth the additional cost.

FWIW, I'm a GH 3-part user and am actually considering DG, which is why I'd rather see different parameters for this test. As we all know, the only TRUE test will be when I try it for myself! My personal grow journals from years past are the only "forums" I place 99% confidence in (nothing is absolute). I don't have problems when people bash AN, but it would be more credible if the results were not pre-determined.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Bill C said:
Comparing an all-in-one product like DG against the base nutes of AN alone doesn't really prove anything as far as effectiveness of any particular line of nutes.
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All-in-one simply means it supplies all 16 essential elements. I could use all of AN's products and they still won't offer all 16 essential elements. The reason DG is out-performing AN isn't because I'm not using AN's rip-off boosters or rip-off root-growth products or rip-off bacteria. It's because AN's poor base NPK ratio of 1-1-2 cannot be corrected with any amount of boosters unless I fed 80% booster and 20% base. Doing so would be depriving the plants of the essentials that base nutrients are supposed to deliver. FWIW, I am using KoolBloom to emulate a typical 'booster' sold by AN. It's still not making a difference.

Maybe you're confusing 'Base' with 'Basic' which is exactly the opposite of reality. Base nutrients are jam-packed with the minerals that plants absolutely need, boosters and other products in their line walk the fine line of being slightly helpful and ripoff.

BTW, your paint analogy is way off. Try this one; you have two men. One is a pro athlete and the other is an average guy. Give them both steroids and the pro athlete will still out perform the average guy. Guess which nutrient brand is 'the average guy' in this example ;).
 
hugetom80s

hugetom80s

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
The test is still trucking along and AN's connoisseur continues to underwhelm :lol: . Factor in price and it's like I've always said; AN is for beginners and people who don't know any better.
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Simply assuming that would worry me no more makes it so than any of the other things you assume to be true because they fit your perceptions.
 
S

Stunk One

Member
Hi,
Has anyone used Botanicare Products? Going soil using the veg/bloom and karma. Does anyone have advice on the feed schedule? It comes with one but I don't think it's right.
 
B

Bill C

Member
homebrewer said:
BTW, your paint analogy is way off. Try this one; you have two men. One is a pro athlete and the other is an average guy. Give them both steroids and the pro athlete will still out perform the average guy. Guess which nutrient brand is 'the average guy' in this example ;).
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I believe my analogy of the paint is more accurate than the one you gave, as mine reflects an all-in-one vs a partial. The one you gave is more an analogy of the strain that is being grown. If comparing a pro athlete vs average Joe and dosing them up with the same chemicals to see which one produces better, then I'd have to say the pro athlete is the same as AK47 and average Joe is bag seed. The AK47 will outperform the bag seed, no matter which chemical (nute/steroid) is given.

Which is a nice segway... I always believe the strain is a more important part of the equation, and nutes are pretty much nutes. I've used AN and had great results. I currently use GH and have great results (for a fraction of the $$$). I used Technaflora once with good results. I grew outside in dirt for a few years with just water with no nutes and had great results, which I attribute to the good soil (the garden was a cattle feed lot for decades). To me, it all comes down to cost and convenience, as I figure I'll have great grow no matter what nutes I use; experience tells me that. One area we are in complete agreement is that AN products cost too much compared to what is available from other manufacturers. I, however, don't believe it takes away from the end results.

In a way, I have to applaud AN. If they can get people to buy their product with slick marketing, then more power to them. It's called Capitalism. Tide detergent, Budweiser beer, Chevy cars, Ford trucks, Jif peanut butter... they all spend big bucks on marketing, all saying theirs is the best to get people to buy. I'll buy CVS cold medicine and Kroger Toasty-Os, and have the same results as the name brands for pennies on the dollar. If a bunch of people want to spend that kind of money, then let them. It only helps me in the long run, as I can produce for less than them.

Anyway, good luck with your grow and please keep the updates coming. It's always interesting reading, even if our opinions differ on some things. You've said enough to convince me to give DG a try on a new grow that's getting ready to start to see how it works for me. Thanks for that my friend, and I'll let you know how it turns out a few months down the road when complete.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Bill C said:
Which is a nice segway... I always believe the strain is a more important part of the equation, and nutes are pretty much nutes. I've used AN and had great results. I currently use GH and have great results (for a fraction of the $$$). I used Technaflora once with good results. I grew outside in dirt for a few years with just water with no nutes and had great results, which I attribute to the good soil (the garden was a cattle feed lot for decades). To me, it all comes down to cost and convenience, as I figure I'll have great grow no matter what nutes I use; experience tells me that. One area we are in complete agreement is that AN products cost too much compared to what is available from other manufacturers. I, however, don't believe it takes away from the end results.
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Mineral salts are mineral salts, and that's what my comparison is showing. There is no magic in the bottles from AN, just the same salts that you'll find in every competing fertilizer. I've been at this for almost 11 years now and my results are very consistent given my setup. I DO see differences when testing different products out on the same strain and that's what I hope people benefit from. Truth be told, I'm having 'good' results from Connoisseur, just not as 'good' as other nute brands at half the cost and they yields (visually at the moment) are smaller with AN.

In a way, I have to applaud AN. If they can get people to buy their product with slick marketing, then more power to them. It's called Capitalism. Tide detergent, Budweiser beer, Chevy cars, Ford trucks, Jif peanut butter... they all spend big bucks on marketing, all saying theirs is the best to get people to buy. I'll buy CVS cold medicine and Kroger Toasty-Os, and have the same results as the name brands for pennies on the dollar. If a bunch of people want to spend that kind of money, then let them. It only helps me in the long run, as I can produce for less than them.
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But I think the difference here is that AN is really expensive and they make false claims. Bud says they're the king of beers, they've never claimed to be the best tasting beer. If Advanced Nutrients made beer, they'd probably claim it contained pheromones which would get you laid more often AND they'd be the most expensive beer on the market.
 
aeroman

aeroman

Well-Known Member
Bill C i agree with u but theres no point in arguing with hb

his mind is made up long ago
its too important to him AN be evil for him to see anyting else
 
Jeff1022

Jeff1022

Member
Thanks for the Thread I am using GH FloraNova Bloom and I am getting ready to go to 12 & 12, I had beenr eading the ad's on the Bud Candy and the price about took me a step back anyway I would have been your average sucker , bought it and would have the same results with the GH Bloom, You guy's have saved my wallet so many times I'm thinking I'll change my name to justplain.......... Thank You! :~)
 
V

vic420

Active Member
Imaulle said:
the people who go to college and get a real education in horticulture use dyna-gro

I highly recommend you get the following

dyna-gro foliage pro - http://www.hydroponics.net/i/133215
dyna-gro bloom - http://www.hydroponics.net/i/133534
dyna-gro pro-tekt - http://www.hydroponics.net/i/133537
dyna-gro mag-pro - http://www.hydroponics.net/i/133535


and then if you want a good root accelerator get some great white - http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134358
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funny shit.. the people that go to school grab the shit that isnt as good for pot then other nutrients made for it r.. lol BIO CAnna all the way organic and GREAT...my friend owns the hydro store man.. the only thing good from dyna gro is the protekt.. and only get that if bonticares silica blast is sold out.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
vic420 said:
funny shit.. the people that go to school grab the shit that isnt as good for pot then other nutrients made for it r.. lol BIO CAnna all the way organic and GREAT...my friend owns the hydro store man.. the only thing good from dyna gro is the protekt.. and only get that if bonticares silica blast is sold out.
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DynaGro isn't good for pot? Maybe you should educate yourself a little bit on the essentials that all plants need instead of getting your information from a guy whose one interest is profit, not real world results.

Chronic, day 37, DynaGro in the dirt:





AK47, DynaGro in hydro, a week away from harvest:





A week away from harvest, DynaGro in hydro, my Dumpster strain:



Harvest day, Ak47 in the dirt, DynaGro....




I love playing the picture game and am super excited to see what your cannabis-specific ripoff nutrients are producing....your turn ;)
 
I

Illumination

New Member
vic420 said:
funny shit.. the people that go to school grab the shit that isnt as good for pot then other nutrients made for it r.. lol BIO CAnna all the way organic and GREAT...my friend owns the hydro store man.. the only thing good from dyna gro is the protekt.. and only get that if bonticares silica blast is sold out.
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your words alone show the knowledge of botany and growing you truly possess...please educate yourself friend before you embarrass yourself again....your plants and you could do well to listen or comprehend what others who really do know are trying to help you to understand....it is true...you will not find ONE botanist or horticulturist that grows pot using canna specific brands..why not? Because they really do know better...do not fall for the hype...your hydro store owner knows how to take your and other noobs money...this is not an attack but a sincere effort on my part to open your eyes to the lies and save you money time and plants​

 
I

Illumination

New Member
aeroman said:
Bill C i agree with u but theres no point in arguing with hb

his mind is made up long ago
its too important to him AN be evil for him to see anyting else
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I defer...it is calling thieves what they are...but if you wish to give away your money to lying thieves then by all means do so...just do not come off as that you do makes it and you the best is all....big mike is smiling all the way to the bank with your money not mine
 
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