Abortion Foes Push To Redefine Personhood

[Ernst]

Isn't this about planning your family?

I mean seriously we kill life forms to feed us everyday so we really are not protectionist of life at all.
So, the question is why are we invading a woman's body with law?

Is it to control a woman or possibly to control people like cattle?


Is it the domain of government to manage the human herd?

 

[Pipe Dream]

People are not exactly an endangered species. Medicine has increases the life expectancy to a point where way more peple are born than die everyday. In the past, people required large families due to high infant mortalities and plagues. Today, we no longer have as many uncontrollable illnesses and manual labor or hunter gatherer lfestyles that would take heavy tolls on the population. We consume huge amounts of natural resources and pollute the world we live in more everyday. There are people starving to death and living in poverty, why ddoesn't anybody give a crap about providing for them, yet are quick to say that every child should be brought into the world? To me it's about quality of life not quantity. If a women can not take care of a child and provide for it, why should they be forced to go through with such a life impacting event?

You can say, well she shouldn't have had sex but that's a weak argument. AIDS (sexually transmitted) is preventable with a condom just like pregnancy is, right? Should AIDS victims be denied treatment because they could have prevented it? Should people with any STD just have to deal with it just because they made a poor choice, even if it was totally cureable? Of course not. No one wants an STD and yet they continue to exist, just as unwanted pregnancy will, because you cannot stop people from having intercourse because the desire is too strong. You can't make sex illegal or I'm sure they would have already done it.

I also fail to see how your tax money is being wasted to unwanted pregnancy. If anything, your saving money because those kids would probably be on welfare because the parents are unable to provide for them. How many people are really going to get pregnant and have an abortion constantly? I would say not many because the experience is not a fun one, it's shamefull enough as it is. They would be more inclined to learn fom their mistakes and use a cheaper form of birth control in the future because abortions aren't free. There would still be plenty of babies beng born, unplanned and planned, not everyone is going to kill their fetus.

 

[Ernst]

I thought this after reading Pipe Dreams thoughtful post.

What about economic planning and profits due to an ever increasing demand on resources?

Could say promoting one race over the other be an economic force as well in limiting birth control?
We have several examples of race and political affiliations we can consider but two that come to mind at the moment are White Americans and the Catholic Church.

Maybe a vague point to make but I'll spice the conversation.

 

[Charlie Ventura]

You dont trust the ruling the SCOTUS issued on abortion rights?

I mean, if HC reform was ruled unconstitutional - I'd accept it. Why is abortion an issue that conservatives ignore from their vigilant worship of the constitution? As libertarians, dont you guys usually say "if it's constitutional it should be legal! Personal freedom trumps all!"?

The SCOTUS ruled on the issue, their opinion is the only opinion that matters; That is how the founding fathers intended.

Actually Mame, this is a point of serious contention among Libertarians. We are pretty much split on the issue. Being raised as a Catholic, I believe abortion is murder. As a Libertarian, I believe that the unborn have human rights, and those rights are to be protected. About half of Libertarians polled feel as I do on the rights issue. The other half believe as you do. I think those like you really haven't thought the issue through.

 

[deprave]

To be fair, these fat sweaty guys who push anti-abortion shit are eccentric, total lunatics, and they do it for the wrong reasons and they don't even fully understand women's health.

I am a liberal libertarian, I support abortion for medical reasons, I believe that killing people even a fetus for any other reason then the risk of the babie or mothers life is wrong. As a libertarian I disagree with things like DHS and Family planning programs, and when these things are involved with abortion it makes me even more against abortion because government is given control over not only life and death but control over the family and family decisions.

Its the government being involved in our personal lives, that is why libertarians disagree with abortion for the most part. (DHS and big government involvement in healthcare being the main issue). We would need "radical" healthcare reform to get most libertarians to support abortion.

 

[beardo]

I can not believe their are people who are pro fetus murder or 'pro choice'. Why is assisted suicide and euthanasia not legal but abortion is? As for a womens body being invaded by law- I would say the only thing that has been invading her body is penises and that the place of the Law is to prevent the murder of a person, especially sanctioned murders preformed by 'healthcare professionals' in publicly funded clinics.

 

[secretweapon]

Does anyone recollect anything from your time as a fetus? Myself I can't remember anything until about the age of three.

Your taxes are going to fight a war which neither side will win.

I would rather see more funding going towards prevention of an unplanned pregnancy. That's not what we have been seeing as the attack to bring planned parenthood crashing down because 3% of that funding goes to abortions. What about the other 97% to go to doctor visits, contraceptives etc. ?

You make a good point, People cannot build buildings where some small lizard lives because we might endanger that poor lizard, but a human baby? bah throw it in a bucket and let it starve to death!

Exactly why I think we (humans) are a virus consuming our host (earth).

 

[Pipe Dream]

I can not believe their are people who are pro fetus murder or 'pro choice'. Why is assisted suicide and euthanasia not legal but abortion is? As for a womens body being invaded by law- I would say the only thing that has been invading her body is penises and that the place of the Law is to prevent the murder of a person, especially sanctioned murders preformed by 'healthcare professionals' in publicly funded clinics.

I can't believe people woud want to have the freedom of choice to smoke chronic and do what you want with your body and think they should have contol over another person's personal decisions regarding their body, seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Does anyone recollect anything from your time as a fetus? Myself I can't remember anything until about the age of three.

Your taxes are going to fight a war which neither side will win.

I would rather see more funding going towards prevention of an unplanned pregnancy. That's not what we have been seeing as the attack to bring planned parenthood crashing down because 3% of that funding goes to abortions. What about the other 97% to go to doctor visits, contraceptives etc. ?





Exactly why I think we (humans) are a virus consuming our host (earth).

As a matter of fact, no I cannot recall being a fetus. Next thing you know people are going to say that my semen has a right to live and charge me with genocide. Everybody should have the right to live so they can be given a gun to kill other people.

 

[Girdweed]

I completely agree that a woman can do with her body as she pleases, but she should not be allowed access to my tax money to pay the cost of the abortion. I find abortion abhorrent and personally am against it, but its not my place to prevent others from doing what they want since it isn't hurting me directly.

This is my take as well. I don't want to pay for it but, in the long run, it's cheaper than providing the unborn child with food, clothing, and shelter.

 

[beardo]

Isn't this about planning your family?

I mean seriously we kill life forms to feed us everyday so we really are not protectionist of life at all.
So, the question is why are we invading a woman's body with law?

Is it to control a woman or possibly to control people like cattle?


Is it the domain of government to manage the human herd?

What about the choice to kill someone you don't like? Or killing someone someone you don't want to be obligated to subsidize? why should the law interfere with my right to choose? How do you feel about the abortion of certain adults?

 

[beardo]

I can't believe people woud want to have the freedom of choice to smoke chronic and do what you want with your body and think they should have contol over another person's personal decisions regarding their body, seems pretty hypocritical to me.

I don't think Anyone should have the power to make decisions regarding the life or death of someone else, which is why I believe it is wrong to allow expectant mothers and doctors to legally murder a person.
Abortion is against U.S. and international law.

 

[beardo]

I can't believe people woud want to have the freedom of choice to smoke chronic and do what you want with your body and think they should have contol over another person's personal decisions regarding their body, seems pretty hypocritical to me.
.

What about laws that charge someone who kills a pregnant woman with a double homicide? isn't that hypocritical? To consider it an act of murder in one instance and a procedure worthy of being tax payer subsidized in another.

 

[beardo]

Euthanasia would be a much better policy as far as fixing our budget problems- ban abortion and have a mandatory doctor visit when you reach retirement age so they can fix the problem that is you so that you do not become a burden on society. Imagine how much more tax revenue we could have with all pregnancies being carried to term, increasing the tax base and eliminating all retirees.

 

[Ernst]

If men could get pregnant Abortion would have been an article in the bill of rights.

 

[secretweapon]

I believe that Life begins at the Creation of the sperm, and that sperm, as potential human lives, deserve equal protection given to fetuses and grown children.* Think of the billions of sperm needlessly killed by such things as hot tubs and tight-fitting underwear.* In the future we will learn to save every sperm Created, so these potential lives can each develop into human adults as the FSM intended.

-Bobby Henderson

 

[canuckgrow]

What about laws that charge someone who kills a pregnant woman with a double homicide? isn't that hypocritical? To consider it an act of murder in one instance and a procedure worthy of being tax payer subsidized in another.

See there in lies the problem.....it is a medical procedure not a homicide....So using your comparison does not work......
Fetus is still attached to Mom via the umbilicle cord. There are moral reasons that term limits are put on abortions and rightfully so......you see the little mass of webbed appendiges and developing tissue can't survive outside Mom without massive intervention and even then only after 24 weeks...Chance of survival is about 50% at 24 weeks. Thats 6 Monthes pregnant ok...following so far. Legal Abortions in Canada are carried out from 4-20 weeks.....the closer a woman gets to the 20 week mark the harder it is for her to convince the Dr's to even perform the procedure. Look around you the last thing we need on this earth is more unwanted babies and children....We have far too many of those already and I find it morally reprehensible the way the pro life movement tries to shame and scare people into believing their horseshite....
If a woman is thinking about an abortion she does not want that child....Adoption you say?????how about some white folks start adopting some babies outside of their own race...There are literally millions of them around the world that are starving,,,being sold,,,killed,maimed.....I guess thats ok as long as we don't abort a fetus right?

 

[canuckgrow]

I believe that Life begins at the Creation of the sperm, and that sperm, as potential human lives, deserve equal protection given to fetuses and grown children.* Think of the billions of sperm needlessly killed by such things as hot tubs and tight-fitting underwear.* In the future we will learn to save every sperm Created, so these potential lives can each develop into human adults as the FSM intended.

-Bobby Henderson

I just rubbed one out in the shower and killed about 40 million of the little fuckers.

 

[Ernst]

Woman is the nigger of the world.
[video=youtube;w4eYq58__o0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4eYq58__o0[/video]

Free Choice is Freedom! Plan your families if you can.

 

[Charlie Ventura]

For those who think a woman has a "right" to abort, and those in favor of abortion on demand, check out the history of Planned Parenthood and its founder Margaret Sanger. Sanger was a Progressive, and like most Progressives, she thought she knew best what was good for the masses. In her eyes, abortion was the path to a more "enlightened" society free from Negros and other "lower forms of life." Margaret Sanger was a racist, pure and simple. Its the same mindset that is displayed by other notable Progressives. Do a study on Walt Whitman sometime. Do we really need another look at Hitler's Progressive solution to "the Jewish problem?"

 

[Alphadawg]

I believe it's ok to have an abortion and thats your right to decide. Not some else to decide for you.