The Truth About Ron Paul

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redivider

Well-Known Member
addicts are addicts, if they truly want to change they can, but many of them are weak minded and can't, which is many cases is why they are addicts anyway. If drugs were legalized and the revenue were put to drug education in our schools drug use would not go up.

redivider, your last post was way off. you should educate yourself so you do not appear so ignorant.
troll it up troll it up


nothing productive to say?? then say nothing at all.

drug legalization worked in portugal, but that socialist wasteland with their long vacations, great benefits, strong unions, high salaries, quality health care and great quality of life.... pffft.... who'd use drugs there????

i am very educated and i've been from the ivory towers of academia to places that would make south dallas look pretty damn nice. i'd bet i'm one of the more educated fools on this site.... ;)
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Too bad the Austrians are wrong. Ron Paul's economics policies are way off base... Kind of the same as his stance on drug use. His argument is, "Dont regulate 'em because if they aren't smart enough to survive and they fail, it's their fault! Let 'em fail!"... But he completely ignores that the cost to society. In the case of his "free martket" argument of letting big banks fail, or allowing GM to fail "in the spirit of capitalism" he completely ignores that all it takes is one large company led by a handful of executives to take on too much risk - and then the countless employees of said douchebag lose their careers over it... on a big enough scale (like the great recession) an entire country(or most of the advanced world) can be unfairly effected by the mistakes of a few. How is this fair? More importantly, how is this good economic policy? Especially once you consider that a few simple rules make the great game of capitalism fair for us all... It just makes no sense to go down this route considering the alternatives.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
no.

i think he's an idiot who's never met a heroin addict.

i've had family die b/c of aids contracted from sharing needles and have more than one friend hooked on the drug and given MY experience I can 100% assure Dr. Paul that HEROIN should not be legalized. PERIOD.

i believe his point of view is wrong and nothing you can do/say/show will EVER change that.
So what part of heroin being illegal stopped your family from sharing needles?
If your viewpoint can never change then why do you even post here? It wasn't too long ago you were espousing that the characteristic to change views over time was admirable and wise. now you say the opposite. Contradict yourself much?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
In the case of his "free martket" argument of letting big banks fail, or allowing GM to fail "in the spirit of capitalism" he completely ignores that all it takes is one large company led by a handful of executives to take on too much risk - and then the countless employees of said douchebag lose their careers over it... on a big enough scale (like the great recession) an entire country(or most of the advanced world) can be unfairly effected by the mistakes of a few. How is this fair? More importantly, how is this good economic policy? Especially once you consider that a few simple rules make the great game of capitalism fair for us all... It just makes no sense to go down this route considering the alternatives.
It's putting obedience to the process above the purpose of the process.

The purpose of capitalism is to have an economic system that benefits the most people. When capitalism fails to do that, it really is ok to adjust the process to make it preform in a way that benefits the people.

Of course that's evil socialist talk to Ron Paul. Ron Paul acts like the free market is some sort of sacred deity that we should all serve. He assumes that we'd all be better off if we had the right to profit as much as we want however we want. But he offers no proof of that and never addresses the potential consequences that come along with doing that.

The reason he gets away with never addressing the downside of free market economics is because no one takes him seriously enough to ask the tough questions. If he actually did get asked the hard questions he would turn into Ernest.

Ron Pauls whole outlook falls apart with two words: robber barons
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Wow, " one of the smartest" on here! Lmao! Bro, no one is smarter then no one, unless you are really stupid! You need to be more clear in your statements sir. Im smarter then you, so what, I aint tooting my own horn about it cause you or anyone else on here might be smarter then me in a different field of study. So your statement there makes you seem like the dumbest dude here



troll it up troll it up


nothing productive to say?? then say nothing at all.

drug legalization worked in portugal, but that socialist wasteland with their long vacations, great benefits, strong unions, high salaries, quality health care and great quality of life.... pffft.... who'd use drugs there????

i am very educated and i've been from the ivory towers of academia to places that would make south dallas look pretty damn nice. i'd bet i'm one of the more educated fools on this site.... ;)
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Too bad the Austrians are wrong. Ron Paul's economics policies are way off base... Kind of the same as his stance on drug use. His argument is, "Dont regulate 'em because if they aren't smart enough to survive and they fail, it's their fault! Let 'em fail!"... But he completely ignores that the cost to society. In the case of his "free martket" argument of letting big banks fail, or allowing GM to fail "in the spirit of capitalism" he completely ignores that all it takes is one large company led by a handful of executives to take on too much risk - and then the countless employees of said douchebag lose their careers over it... on a big enough scale (like the great recession) an entire country(or most of the advanced world) can be unfairly effected by the mistakes of a few. How is this fair? More importantly, how is this good economic policy? Especially once you consider that a few simple rules make the great game of capitalism fair for us all... It just makes no sense to go down this route considering the alternatives.
Life aint fair buddy, government cannot make life fair for anyone, ever.

Did Keynesians see the housing bubble ? No. Did the Austrians? Yes. Do the Keynesians have a Plan to save the economy that will actually work and continue to work in the future? No. Do the Austrians? Yes. Are Austrians much better looking and overall twice as intelligent as Keynesians? Absolutely.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Life aint fair buddy, government cannot make life fair for anyone, ever. [
It can make it more fair. If you believe it can not, then should murder be legal? I mean, life isn't fair right? So I should be able to kill you and take all your stuff.

Did Keynesians see the housing bubble ? No. Did the Austrians? Yes. Do the Keynesians have a Plan to save the economy that will actually work and continue to work in the future? No. Do the Austrians? Yes. Are Austrians much better looking and overall twice as intelligent as Keynesians? Absolutely.
So your only proof of the Austrian solution working and the Keynesian theories failing is that Austrians are better looking? Interesting.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Too bad the Austrians are wrong. Ron Paul's economics policies are way off base... Kind of the same as his stance on drug use. His argument is, "Dont regulate 'em because if they aren't smart enough to survive and they fail, it's their fault! Let 'em fail!"... But he completely ignores that the cost to society. In the case of his "free martket" argument of letting big banks fail, or allowing GM to fail "in the spirit of capitalism" he completely ignores that all it takes is one large company led by a handful of executives to take on too much risk - and then the countless employees of said douchebag lose their careers over it... on a big enough scale (like the great recession) an entire country(or most of the advanced world) can be unfairly effected by the mistakes of a few. How is this fair? More importantly, how is this good economic policy? Especially once you consider that a few simple rules make the great game of capitalism fair for us all... It just makes no sense to go down this route considering the alternatives.
Granted there are costs when a large corporation with thousands of employees fails. However, saving an unprofitable and flawed corporate monster only stifles innovation and ingenuity as well as assist in lining the pockets of said corporations CEO's. Seriously, GM failed because it failed to provide top of the line products that met the standards of the consumer and was not in demand due to it's lack of appeal. However, you encourage an economic policy which would save these companies that push a virtually unmarketable product at their so chosen outrageous prices for the simple fact that it may save jobs? The US gave $49.5 billion dollars to GM. Imagine what could have happened if GM failed and that money had been given to an emerging company in the private sector or maybe even Ford? Nobody mentions Ford despite the fact that they too had been struggling and took it upon themselves to turn their company around, and return innovation and make their company profit again without ever accepting a government bailout.

How about this: (Reference: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/04/business/20090205-bailout-totals-graphic.html) Referring to the link I just provided our government gave 9.0 trillion to failing businesses. What if our government decided to distribute the $9.0 trillion to the 307,006,550 citizens of this country? This equates to giving each citizen $29,315.34. Imagine how drastically this would have changed our economy allowing the free market consumers to decide which product, investment, or debt they chose to spend this money on? Most citizens of the United States only make this much in a year. I know I personally could have been out of debt, probably driving a better car which I chose because I liked it (free market choice always selects the right product for you) or if I owned a house I could have easily been caught up on all of my mortgage payments as well as very likely ahead at the same time (which in turn should revive the failing banks, however not likely considering they failed for variously more reasons than just that). Tell me, what would you do with this money and why do you think it was smart to give it to a failing corporation again?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
It can make it more fair. If you believe it can not, then should murder be legal? I mean, life isn't fair right? So I should be able to kill you and take all your stuff.
LOL Strawman is the best you can do? Thinking the government does not have the power to make life fair equates to wanting murder to be legal? Really? This is the reasoning process your argument is going to hinge on? Please do try to do better in the future, these types of arguments are .....
[video=youtube;X8PyTo6NyXA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8PyTo6NyXA[/video]
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
LOL Strawman is the best you can do? Thinking the government does not have the power to make life fair equates to wanting murder to be legal? Really? This is the reasoning process your argument is going to hinge on? Please do try to do better in the future, these types of arguments are .....
You said it was impossible for government to make life more fair. So why have any laws at all then?
 

deprave

New Member
i truly believe he's never been personally touched by these hard drugs.

i bleieve his point of view is just as yours, if you get hooked on heroin it's your own fault.

no it is not. it is a disease which grips people's mind like you wouldn't believe. these people aren't criminals or some sort of 'lepper' type anomaly of nature which deserves to be relegated to dumpsters and hopelessness.

i see YOU haven't been personally involved with anybody who's hooked on heroin b/c of that weak argument.

methadone clinics do not work. methadone is a legal alternative comparable to heroin, only withdrawal is a WHOLE LOT WORSE and it sets in A WHOLE LOT QUICKER so you have to go back sooner to get your fix.

i'll just say that that type of hard-drug addiction doesn't really hurt the user nearly as much as the users' family/friends.... that is why i believe ron paul is VERY mistaken on his point of view. he needs a serious dose of REALITY.

i wonder if he ever watches 'intervention'.... geez...
sorry yes I have, My X-girlfriend died because of heroin, I cant even count the number of friends that fell to heroin after high school, the number of family members and friends that I lost to heroin in just the last 10 years I can not count them on two hands, there is a huge epidemic in my community.

My Belief: Addicts will be addicts, you can not change that, it is not the drug to blame it is the user, they teach you not to do heroin in what first grade? Don't do opiates it really is that simple or shit just dont do them for a many consecutive weeks? Contrary to popular belief you dont become addicted the first time, its just not true. I have done every opiate under the sun in college on many occasions, not doing them every day or every week you simply won't become an addict. Heroin addicts WANT to be heroin addicts for atleast several months of their life.
 

deprave

New Member
Too bad the Austrians are wrong. Ron Paul's economics policies are way off base... Kind of the same as his stance on drug use. His argument is, "Dont regulate 'em because if they aren't smart enough to survive and they fail, it's their fault! Let 'em fail!"... But he completely ignores that the cost to society. In the case of his "free martket" argument of letting big banks fail, or allowing GM to fail "in the spirit of capitalism" he completely ignores that all it takes is one large company led by a handful of executives to take on too much risk - and then the countless employees of said douchebag lose their careers over it... on a big enough scale (like the great recession) an entire country(or most of the advanced world) can be unfairly effected by the mistakes of a few. How is this fair? More importantly, how is this good economic policy? Especially once you consider that a few simple rules make the great game of capitalism fair for us all... It just makes no sense to go down this route considering the alternatives.
sorry that is not Dr. Pauls entire argument, Criminal executives should be held responsible for their crimes that is Dr Pauls stance on corporate crooks, he does not advocate for corporate criminals infact he is know as an anti-corporatist, this argument you use is takin out of context, really just look at how silly this argument really is please, it is just like the Ron Paul will threaten national defense argument, and Ron Paul will legalize drugs argument, takin way out of context, its buying into the psy-op against Ron Paul, Ron Paul is not some kind of radical, as I said, Ron Paul is not a Terrorist, he is not a threat to the American Way of Life, with Ron Pauls philosophy we all prosper. Please Read Ron Pauls books or listen to him speak/write some more please I encourage you, because its obvious to me you don't fully grasp Ron Paul.

Do you guys really believe a hero like Ron Paul is some kind of terrorist, that he will legalize drugs, that he will be a threat to our national security, that he will be a threat to our way of life and let the corporations run wild(as they do now I might add) - Its a ridiculous argument, its a psy-op against the American people, this man has served in government for a very long time and in the Military.

This is why I made this thread, apparently I am not being specific enough, All I can do is ask is that you guys please consider Ron Paul and actually research his philosophy with an open mind because your understanding of Ron Paul is skewed.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Individualism vs collectivism. America was not founded on the principle of what is best for the majority. It was created to protect the rights of the individual.
Saying that you're for legalizing one substance but not another is the epitome of hypocrisy. Suggesting that the more laws you have, the more fair life will be is from a totalitarian mind-set. Believing that continuing on the same road that has brought us to the brink of economic collapse, is the right thing to do, is insane.
Flinging aspersions at Ron Paul and his never ending crusade to restore individual liberty, just shows how ignorant some are of their very own country.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Did Keynesians see the housing bubble ? No. Did the Austrians? Yes. Do the Keynesians have a Plan to save the economy that will actually work and continue to work in the future? No. Do the Austrians? Yes. Are Austrians much better looking and overall twice as intelligent as Keynesians? Absolutely.
Uhm, this just isn't true. Everyone knew about the housing bubble.. Greenspan, Volcker, Krugman, Paul, Pelosi, Bernanke, ALL of them...

What is this plan the Austrians have? Austerity? As I've posted about on these boards and have been following pretty closely, Austerity is failing the Eurozone... Why should it work for us? We're all in a similar situation ATM... it's not like we're somehow special that inneffective policies magically become useful just because you say so or because our flag is red, white and blue... What else is there? De-regulating the market and instituting more tax cuts? Well, that didn't work before, why should it work now? I'd love to hear about these amazing solutions you claim the Austrians to have... Empirical evidence of policy effectiveness would be nice too(specifics)...
Do you guys really believe a hero like Ron Paul is some kind of terrorist, that he will legalize drugs, that he will be a threat to our national security, that he will be a threat to our way of life and let the corporations run wild(as they do now I might add) - Its a ridiculous argument, its a psy-op against the American people, this man has served in government for a very long time and in the Military.

This is why I made this thread, apparently I am not being specific enough, All I can do is ask is that you guys please consider Ron Paul and actually research his philosophy with an open mind because your understanding of Ron Paul is skewed.
No, I believe Ron Paul is a good man who clearly has good intentions but he just happens to be wrong. Pretty simple. His views on how a "free" America would function are just so unrealistic it's dumbfounding TBH... I never thought a man so old could be so niave...

The markets aren't perfect, sorry.
Saying that you're for legalizing one substance but not another is the epitome of hypocrisy
Not really. Using a cost/benefit analysis it's pretty easy to see, for example, that legalizing Marijuana would be worth doing because the benefits outweigh the costs to society... With Heroin it's easy to see that the costs likely outwiegh the benefits by far and so it makes sense to ban the substance and others like it.
How about this: (Reference: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...s-graphic.html) Referring to the link I just provided our government gave 9.0 trillion to failing businesses. What if our government decided to distribute the $9.0 trillion to the 307,006,550 citizens of this country? This equates to giving each citizen $29,315.34. Imagine how drastically this would have changed our economy allowing the free market consumers to decide which product, investment, or debt they chose to spend this money on? Most citizens of the United States only make this much in a year. I know I personally could have been out of debt, probably driving a better car which I chose because I liked it (free market choice always selects the right product for you) or if I owned a house I could have easily been caught up on all of my mortgage payments as well as very likely ahead at the same time (which in turn should revive the failing banks, however not likely considering they failed for variously more reasons than just that). Tell me, what would you do with this money and why do you think it was smart to give it to a failing corporation again?
There is a difference between giving money, and lending money. If you were loaned 30 grand what are the chances you'd pay it off? Slim? None? Chrysler, for example, took 10.5 Billion in loans and has payed most of it off already - leaving only a $2 billion balance after only a few years... That loan saved a shit ton of jobs...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Uhm, this just isn't true. Everyone knew about the housing bubble.. Greenspan, Volcker, Krugman, Paul, Pelosi, Bernanke, ALL of them...

What is this plan the Austrians have? Austerity? As I've posted about on these boards and have been following pretty closely, Austerity is failing the Eurozone... Why should it work for us? We're all in a similar situation ATM... it's not like we're somehow special that inneffective policies magically become useful just because you say so or because our flag is red, white and blue... What else is there? De-regulating the market and instituting more tax cuts? Well, that didn't work before, why should it work now? I'd love to hear about these amazing solutions you claim the Austrians to have... Empirical evidence of policy effectiveness would be nice too(specifics)...
Keynesians want austerity and thats what they are getting. What you are taught in school is FALSE, and you will be proved wrong on every issue very shortly.

Bernanke knew all about a bubble huh? Watch him tell you there is no bubble, then come back and tell me he knew.
[video=youtube;INmqvibv4UU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INmqvibv4UU&feature=related[/video]

No, I believe Ron Paul is a good man who clearly has good intentions but he just happens to be wrong. Pretty simple. His views on how a "free" America would function are just so unrealistic it's dumbfounding TBH... I never thought a man so old could be so niave...
Yeah because doing things the way the US Constitution intended would be highly wrong and just plain dumb, running things illegally and unconstitutionally is way better isn't it Mame?
 
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