And Another reason to pass Horticulture only for the People of California in 2012

[Ernst]

This is a remake of a thread of a similar title so that the topic is related to the story and commentary.
Please keep on topic and do not spam freedom of speech.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ernst Berg

All up and down the state each jurisdiction if crafting regulations that serve them and not the liberty of those allowed to use, breed and share in non-commercial ways.
we must stand firm and legalize Horticulture rights for every California citizen in 2012 or we will have a patch work of laws that when you set over a imaginary line somewhere you can hop back and forth between legal garden and illegal garden.
We need one set of regulations for all of California not 600.

RED BLUFF — Two draft laws, one that would ban medical marijuana dispensaries and another that would strictly regulate them, are on their way to the Tehama County Planning Commission.
And if the regulatory version ultimately passes in its current form, the county would be breaking new ground by requiring that a licensed medical professional dispense the cannabis.
"We definitely would be the first as far as I can tell," Assistant County Counsel Arthur Wylene said. "That doesn't make it right or wrong. We just would be on the leading edge."
In its fourth study session since November 2009, the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday voted 4-0 to send the two documents to the commission, which will hold a public hearing to consider them. Supervisor Ron Warner was absent.
They're trying to get something on the books before a moratorium expires in September.
While he said he hadn't decided how he'd vote when the issue ultimately returns to the board, Supervisor George Russell reiterated his objection to the medical-professional rule.
"In its current form the ordinance would be meaningless," Russell said. marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and in California physicians recommend but don't prescribe cannabis for patients.
But Supervisor Bob Williams, who pushed for the requirement, said he was doing so to "provide groundwork for future boards" should federal law ever change. "If it's medicine, we should treat it as medicine," Williams said.
Like Russell, he also said he'd yet to decide what his final vote would be.
In the draft rules, only one permit would be issued for each 30,000 people in the unincorporated area of the county, which with the current population would effectively limit total permits to one.
Both proposals define a dispensary as 10 or more people who provide or receive medical cannabis, covering both storefronts and mobile retail outlets. Dispensaries would be confined to designated land within industrial zones.
Before the vote, the board heard from three audience members, including Kathy Nelson.
"I'm actually practically begging you guys not to open dispensaries," Nelson said. But Robert Alejandre, who said he was speaking on behalf of veterans, supported the idea of including medical professionals in any dispensary law as well as "tight security."
John Stoufer, acting county planning director, said after the meeting he would get the drafts on the Planning Commission agenda as soon as possible. Providing he can meet public noticing requirements, that could be May 19.
Supervisors are hoping to adopt a dispensary ordinance by early August.

These guys want to issue just One Garden permit for 30,000 people if they ever allow Medical Gardens at all..

It's not that we are being set back it's that we have no effective cannabis leadership in this state.
With one group demanding we take on the Federal laws against on cannabis commerce and other out to kill whatever cannabis anything they can like some zombie needing to eat people.

When will we be free to plant some cannabis with our carrots and tomatoes?

Vote against Commerce and Crazies in 2012! Let the people go first!

After all we want Legal Gardens in 2012 don't we?

 

[doc111]

 

[Beansly]

Ugh...Why the rage?
Not my thread...just let it go....

 

[Ernst]

Ugh...Why the rage?
Not my thread...just let it go....

Good question.. Since the federal Government is making it very clear they will not allow legal commerce yet.

Did you by chance see the point of this thread? What do you think?

How do you feel about California Jurisdictions doing everything they can to stop cannabis and if they can't stop it then they will limit who has it? So no community cannabis dispensaries and they will support a monopoly if that fails?
I'm guessing it will be someone they pick to own the monopoly. It's a clear pointer to the problems we have with cannabis commerce and why it will fail if we vote for it.
It is another reason to support Full horticulture rights for all Californians first.
We will not be able to fix the for profit side of Cannabis if the For the people side is kept criminal.


We need to realize that the Green we have to legalize first is Cannabis not drug profits.

 

[undertheice]

Why the rage?

gee, i wonder. could it have something to do with the incessant repetition of this "horticultural rights" mantra, bumping threads that would better be left to die a natural death, or is it simply ernst's refusal to face the fact that his entire premise is fatally flawed?

How do you feel about California Jurisdictions doing everything they can to stop cannabis and if they can't stop it then they will limit who has it? So no community cannabis dispensaries and they will support a monopoly if that fails?
I'm guessing it will be someone they pick to own the monopoly. It's a clear pointer to the problems we have with cannabis commerce and why it will fail if we vote for it.
It is another reason to support Full horticulture rights for all Californians first.
We will not be able to fix the for profit side of Cannabis if the For the people side is kept criminal.

i realize i'm repeating myself, but turn about is fair play. the problem we have with the dispensary issue has come about precisely because there were no guidelines set up in the original legislation concerning distribution. it said we were allowed access, but gave us no clear cut avenue and left the necessary regulations up to more local authorities. when attempting to dismantle such a long standing prohibition, we must include a road map for distribution or such reactionary maneuvering is bound to pop up.

 

[redivider]

yeah i'll second whoever considers this SPAM.

you are spamming this forum with a bunch of BS. mods, give this guy an infraction. he literally created 2 threads within 24 hours of each other saying the same exact thing.....

marijuana isn't caramel, or grapes, or culantro, or bell peppers.... you talk about personal holticulture to conjure up images of grandma taking care of her roses every morning, when that is not how most of the marijuana is grown in this country. most of the marijuana grown in this country is not grown for personal consumption, it's grown so you can sell that shit. that's REALITY. you need a serious dose....

any law must include strict penalties for people who use the profit off cannabis to commit crimes.... or who grow/sell marijuana outside of what is considered legal in that particular state.



SPAMMER!!!!!!

 

[Ernst]

Gardening and Horticulture are the norms. You are free to make your own threads so there is no need to spam mine.

I made a new thread to escape a fight but it looks like that is what is allowed?

Moderation on this?

In America I served in the Military and in the Military we had a saying. I might not agree with what you have to say but i will die defending your right to say it.

 

[Ernst]

Ernst, others will have differing opinions.... it is not a reason to give up. Like you, I believe any commerce plan will kill any initiative, simply because of the word "tax". However, keep in mind that we were not legally able to make our own wine and beer until commerce had it all cornered up first. Big money has a lot of influence among law makers. It always has, and always will. We may have to fight for our right to grow and produce after commerce opens the door. Think about it, not all people that smoke will grow or even want to. Some are happy just buying their smoke and having a lot of choices as opposed to locking in on one or two strains in a private garden.

I also notice that no one addressed your original concern, a buffet of different laws from one county to the next. Not only will that be confusing, it may very well criminilize the movement of MJ through a particular county. I believe for the laws to be fair, they must apply to all Californians equally. You raised a good point and it's a shame some choose to attack you rather than have an open and frank discussion. If your response is to belittle differing opinions, you'll never truly have a frank and open discussion with anybody about anything. Try to see other viewpoints and see where they are coming from. It doesn't mean you are accepting the idea, it merely means you take it under consideration and have an adult conversation.

Jumping to 40 pt fonts in bold is not an adult, frank conversation. If you are unwilling to discuss all ideas and opinions, there is no sense in your posting any further. It simply defeats the purpose of promoting discussion.

Indeed I can use smaller font for emphasis.

So how will commerce lead the way? Places like red Bluff are not ready for pot farms and pot shops from what I read.

Sure people buy weed.. they do now and we have commerce now but what we don't have is rights to the cannabis plant for private non-commercial horticulture uses for everyone.
We will have people who want to grow and sell and some want to sell only and some want to grow only.
Commerce is the domain of the Federal Government. Washington State, California and now Colorado have received the news from the Feds. Commerce is off the table.

And As I say, I am not against commerce or agriculture I simply believe we can get more done if we pass something in 2012 so why put all our eggs in one basket for 2012? Why gamble again?

However, tell me how you see commerce leading the way. You need to include how that will help the people of Red Bluff change their position about federal law and stop Federal intervention on Cannabis commerce. I've asked this question a few times in the form of "how do we get the no voters to vote yes."
How do we get the Red Bluff people to be all for cannabis business in their jurisdiction?

What will unify California and provide a base we can build on?

Pardon the disjoint reply but i requested that the other thread be deleted.

I moved here to escape the fighting.

 

[Dan Kone]

Gardening and Horticulture are the norms. You are free to make your own threads so there is no need to spam mine.

You're attempts at disguising commerce as "horticulture" are completely transparent. There is not a person on this forum who doesn't see right through it. Give it up already.

I made a new thread to escape a fight but it looks like that is what is allowed?

Yeah, interestingly enough people think you're a fraud today just like they did yesterday.

Moderation on this?

Why do you feel you are the only person on this forum who has the right to have unchallenged opinions? Why should you get to spread your misinformation but others shouldn't be allowed to challenge it?

Well guess what Ernest. You can make 10000 threads and all be there calling you out in all of them. As long as I'm not breaking any forum rules, the moderators will not stop me. You don't get to spread misinformation here with out being called on it.

In America I served in the Military and in the Military we had a saying. I might not agree with what you have to say but i will die defending your right to say it.

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that is a lie, just like when you invented that story about your mormon wife last week where you claimed to participate in her baptism but all the details were wrong.

You're a total fraud. It's pretty easy for everyone to see you are just making stuff up.

Also - LOL @ you quoting and responding to something that isn't enough in this thread. wtf?

 

[doc111]

Ugh...Why the rage?
Not my thread...just let it go....

lmfao!!!!!! No rage at all my friend. This is only about the umpteenth thread that Ernst has made on this exact same subject. It may not fit the literal definition of spam but I think it fits the spirit of it. He's spamming the politics forum just like he's been doing for the last 3-4 months and I called him on it, period!

BTW, I thought this was Ernst's thread, not yours.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Ernst can't seem to understand that people are averse to being lectured by a self-righteous douche-bag.

His Ernsty musings are enough to make anyone upchuck.

Ersnt apparently loves the sound of his fingers tapping on the key board.

Ernst prefers beating around the bush to the direct approach.

Ernst wore out his welcome in record time.

In short, Ernst does not know when to fuck off.

 

[undertheice]

Ernst wore out his welcome in record time.

you've gotta give him a bit of a break, he's a man with a cause. it's a one-sided, short-sighted cause, but a cause none-the-less and he isn't the only one here with a case of keyboard diarrhea. i think we've all gotten the point of his message by now and have seen through to the truth of the matter, but i doubt that will keep him from his continuing crusade against an inclusive bill.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

you've gotta give him a bit of a break, he's a man with a cause. it's a one-sided, short-sighted cause, but a cause none-the-less and he isn't the only one here with a case of keyboard diarrhea. i think we've all gotten the point of his message by now and have seen through to the truth of the matter, but i doubt that will keep him from his continuing crusade against an inclusive bill.

I appreciate your fair-minded approach.

Thread-happy members are nothing new here.

But one with such reactive and bi-partisan opposition?

That tells me something.

He can serve his applesauce here all he wants, but it will come with a disclaimer offered by the rest of us.

 

[Carne Seca]

::sigh:: I hate to agree with this but it is getting old fast and he seems to lose all sense of objectivity the more he rants about this issue. His multiple thread/same issue spamming is more annoying than bumping a thread because you want people to respond. Which is exactly what he is trying to do.

 

[redivider]

bumping a thread isn't as bad as starting 5 of them.

and he's getting the same exact response each time, they say insanity is doing the same thing many times and expecting different outcomes.

 

[undertheice]

His multiple thread/same issue spamming is more annoying than bumping a thread because you want people to respond. Which is exactly what he is trying to do.

the early success of his rather lopsided polls gave him all the encouragement he needed to consider his message well received. y'all can't say you weren't warned. both dan and i were pointing out the flaws in his logic from the beginning, but he just seemed to consider us a minor irritation in the midst of his great success. there are still a few folks, the usual anti-business crowd, who run to his defense, but i think we've all seen through the half-truths by now. he's just a grower who wants to see the expansion of his sector, not really worrying about how it will effect the overall legalization movement.

 

[undertheice]

this has to be a first. jo, seca, red and i all agreeing on something on the same page. could this mean the end of the world is at hand? if med chimes in, i'll be certain of it.

 

[Carne Seca]

the early success of his rather lopsided polls gave him all the encouragement he needed to consider his message well received. y'all can't say you weren't warned. both dan and i were pointing out the flaws in his logic from the beginning, but he just seemed to consider us a minor irritation in the midst of his great success. there are still a few folks, the usual anti-business crowd, who run to his defense, but i think we've all seen through the half-truths by now. he's just a grower who wants to see the expansion of his sector, not really worrying about how it will effect the overall legalization movement.

But he started out so reasonable... or so I thought. Now he's a weird kind of cyber-bully.

 

[redivider]

i'm anti BIG BUSINESS and conglomerates and the tax breaks these receive... as if billions in dollars in profit, and record-high executive pay isn't enough.....

i am also against too big to fail financial firms.... that bail-out money could've been used to help other actual job creating entities which also struggled or outright went out of business during the recession.....

and i have a beef with his point of view mainly because he doesn't really give us any sort of benefit to society, the economy, the state, or to marijuana users.... it's just a philosophical position which seems to ignore the majority of pot users who buy pot, sell pot, all the growers who do so on commercial scales to sell the product and support themselves, and all the people involved in getting the pot to the people who want to smoke it....

seems like: well since I grow pot, and my friends grow pot, then private holticulture is the way to go. what?? there's 40 million people out there who smoke pot but don't grow it?? too bad.

i also have a beef from when he argued against the last legalization effort in cali while he takes full advantage of the priveledges of being a medical user. he argued against a proposition ,which many saw as imperfect but a step in the right direction, while knowing all the while that his access to pot would not be affected b/c of his medical status... im not even from cali and i took offense to it....

 

[Ernst]

Ernst can't seem to understand that people are averse to being lectured by a self-righteous douche-bag.

His Ernsty musings are enough to make anyone upchuck.

Ersnt apparently loves the sound of his fingers tapping on the key board.

Ernst prefers beating around the bush to the direct approach.

Ernst wore out his welcome in record time.

In short, Ernst does not know when to fuck off.

You mean like a coward that hides who he is and attacks others? That kind of self righteous douche-bag?

Don't throw rock when you live in a glass house.

Get brave and join the real people fighting to legalize cannabis.