The 'Official' Do Not Vote For Obama In 2012 - Thread. Don't Want Him Back N Office!

[macewindu]

Take a close look at Gary Johnson!
He's our man.

Johnson 2012

 

[musicislfe]

Its all a joke. All of it. You fools sit here and preach like you CAN actually make a difference. You cant. If you can, do it. I wanna see. Does it really take revolutions,or civil war for change? Or can we all be smart enough to see whats coming. The obvious. Yes? No? So be it. Who cares about the left, or right. ??? what does that fucking solve? Obama not american?? WHO FUCKING CARES????!!!! Our legitimate rights are being sucked up by people that sit in office hired to write laws. They have no work If they dont write laws, pass bills, so on. Dont you see? The economy took a shit but now were having to pay in different ways so that the government can continue to run, using our sweat, our hard earned dollar that we sacrificed our family time for to be at work on time everyday like fucking robots. Like $4.00 a gallon of gas and dont even give me shit and tell me france pays $7, Fuck france fuck you. $100 dollar late fee for registering your vehicle late????? Really??? I can barely afford to get to work on 5 dollars of gas and now your going to charge me a fee 50% more than it costs to register my car? Oh ok
i was late paying my $22 PO BOX fee oh hey your late we're going to charge almost a 100% late. fee $15.00 late fee . . Why do you think I was late? Do you think I got so caught up playing with my money that I forgot to pay my bills?? I for one WILL be on the front lines. I sat on the corner with a sign once protesting. People talk about doing this sorrt of thing, I DID IT you know what happen? I was told to leave or I would be arrested. Free country, YOU FUCKING FOOLS.

 

[secretweapon]

Mr. Music smoke a bowl and chill.

In America freedom isn't free. Paying bills on time is called responsibility. I'm not saying your not responsible but Shit happens.

 

[musicislfe]

Lol. Shit does happen. Oh well, thats what the Egypt should of said. Fuck change, Shit happens.

Oh I would love to smoke a bowl. But I have no money.

 

[canndo]

Liberal semantics at it's best. If you want answer those question study history. Not law, History. Go back to your Jefferson Quote and find the intent of the writer and signers. There are very few words in the Constitution that don't have directly defined term of intent documented. Our law was based on principles. Leran those principles and you will understand our law.

Interpretation, yours, mine or SCOTUS's. Your rooting through history and my doing so will still no doubt result in two different interpretations. Semantics, is not a trivial thing but an essential. Interestingly, you seem to be using Semantics, which is literally the meaning of words" as dismissive. If what you say is true, that there are very few words in the Constitution that don't have directly defined terms of intent then tell me, finally, what does cruel and unusual mean. Two words, one phrase. How about it?

 

[canndo]

Are you saying that the federal income tax is a direct tax that is exempt from the apportionment clause in the constitution?

I believe I did sir. That is my understanding of the 16th. And yours? Although I had thought our discussion to be more broad than this single point.

 

[canndo]

I would say it's a moot point really. The Constitution only applies to citizen. Not enemies of war!

Now I will agree that the Constitution does not apply to enemies at war but nowhere in the Costitution does it say that it applies only to citizens. The preceeding document, although not legaly binding does indicate that all men, not all citizens are entitled to rights which are intrinsic to their being. The point is not moot at all if a citizen who is "declared" an "enemy combatant" by the president of the United States is treated in a way that is unconstitutional. I can further be argued that under the Constitution the president cannot unilateraly declare a U.S. citizen an enemy combantant and deprive him of his rights under the Constitution. Finally, as I said, the issu of lashing is not moot either.

 

[canndo]

Ah common ground, I love it! I'm betting there's a whole lot more we agree upon. I'm betting there's a whole lot more this entire country could agree upon if we were just able to remove the bullshit labels and stereotypes we place on one another. I believe that about 10% of the left are complete whackos and 10% of the right are lunatic zealots. Unfortunately each has their own media outlets and scream louder than the other 80% of us that can look at things with common sense and come to a reasonable agreement. I am also praying that someone comes forward that is worthy of my vote but unfortunately he wants to remain governor of New Jersey. Go figure! Enough with the love fest, I must press you on not worrying about the power that the fed accumulates. Limited federal government was the foremost concept our forefathers wanted this country to adhere to. "All powers not delegated to the fed by the constitution shall belong to the states" that is where we started and I believe the reason we have succeeded to this point. Slowly over the last hundred years we have strayed to the point that we should seriously consider the possibility of our great country going bankrupt because of a fat bloated wasteful pig of a federal government. I know your intelligent by your ruse about "cruel and unusual punishment" and your understanding of original intent. Do you not agree that we have gone far beyond our founders intent?

Of course I agree that we have gone beyond the founder's original intent. No reasonable person (even if they are liberal Windsblow), could think otherwise. The question then is evident. Is it necessary in a society that our founders could never have envisioned, for our government to go beyond their original intent? I suspect in certain situations that we must go beyond that intent. Let us take our current health care situation as an example. Did the founders intend that a government be legally able to force us to purchase a private good or service? I really don't think so - or, more to the point... NO. I think they would roll their eyes and question the sanity of the country, they would be horrified at this subversion of their shining dream.

But if we took them aside and explained that because we are a humane country we mandated that no person sould be turned away from immediate medical care even if they could not pay. We would explain to them that this is along the same principle that we found when interpreting their words, that every man is entitled to assistance of council in a trial even if they could not afford a lawyer. We would explain to them that due to our mandate, we all pay for medical services for others and we do not believe it is right that we be forced to do so when instead we should force THEM to do so before the fact of their need.

I suspect our founders would be stunned and when asked what should be done, they would shake their heads and admit that they did not know.

On another note of intent, I would be curious to hear what they would say about banning abortions. I believe they would laugh in our collective faces at such a notion yet it is so often those who protest abortions and wish for there to be governmental obstruction to those abortions who most claim to crave going back to what the framers had in mind.

 

[canndo]

Our Courts rule on case law but our system wasn't intended to work this way. Case law is corruption. Period!!! Case law is why our country is burning it's self down. If case law was good law, then we should still have slavery or JIm crow or you name every bad law that has precedence. Case law is popular law. It is the rule of man over the rule of law.

You make a good point, one that I had never considered.

 

[canndo]

View attachment 1562559


See thats what i dont understand you blame big companies that sit on large masses of money. they got there from blood sweat and tears no one in this country is guaranteed money you have to work for it. You get mad when big corporations get tax breaks but the guy working at McDonald's has a higher percentage. Yet those companies paying lower taxes still give more than 55% of all total taxes collected by the united states. That means they pay for half of your food stamps, well-fair, infrastructural needs ,military defenses,and the list goes on. so before you blame big companies imagine your life with 3x the current taxes and unable to find a job. No big companies = no jobs ( even less then we have now). with no jobs available and taxes strictly coming from the citizens that would put more people on well-fair turning into a downward spiral.

The United States party system is complete bull shit.

In the past Republicans and Democrats actually had a purpose providing different ideas to add to the country, but now they just oppose each other like little kids in a pissing contest. They dont give a dam about the health of the country.

In the last 20 (?) years, worker productivity has doubled, some from autmation but most certainly not all. Yet average pay has increased barely at all over those 20 years. So when you say "they got there from blood sweat and tears" exactly who's blood sweat and tears are you talking about?

 

[musicislfe]

In the last 20 (?) years, worker productivity has doubled, some from autmation but most certainly not all. Yet average pay has increased barely at all over those 20 years. So when you say "they got there from blood sweat and tears" exactly who's blood sweat and tears are you talking about?

Fucking Amen.

 

[musicislfe]

In the last 20 (?) years, worker productivity has doubled, some from autmation but most certainly not all. Yet average pay has increased barely at all over those 20 years. So when you say "they got there from blood sweat and tears" exactly who's blood sweat and tears are you talking about?

Exxon Mobil paid no federal income tax in 2009



http://climateprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-mobil-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2009/


I laugh in your face. (and "They" laugh in ours)

 

[Mr Neutron]

I believe I did sir. That is my understanding of the 16th. And yours? Although I had thought our discussion to be more broad than this single point.

With all due respect, sir, you are the one who kept pressing the issue of "cruel and unusual" as a single point. So allow me to illustrate MY point by asking one more question. What is the Constitutional definition of income?

 

[musicislfe]

Oh and lets not forget.
Good thing for the population. Its sooo obvious.. Dont you see??!!

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=67562604-8280-4d56-8af4-a27f59d70de5

 

[canndo]

With all due respect, sir, you are the one who kept pressing the issue of "cruel and unusual" as a single point. So allow me to illustrate MY point by asking one more question. What is the Constitutional definition of income?

Wonderful question. I don't believe it is in there. If it is not there, then what should be the reasonable source for a definition?

 

[musicislfe]

"""Wonderful question. I don't believe it is in there. If it is not there, then what should be the reasonable source for a definition?""""

A Law Dictionary.



Do any of the links Ive attached raise any concerns? Your children, the ones you love more than anything in this world are being raised as cattle, To supply this nation a foundation so that the men lurking over the presidentS shoulderS can continue their dynasty, and protect thier families and interest from YOURS.

 

[canndo]

"""Wonderful question. I don't believe it is in there. If it is not there, then what should be the reasonable source for a definition?""""

A Law Dictionary.



Do any of the links Ive attached raise any concerns? Your children, the ones you love more than anything in this world are being raised as cattle, To supply this nation a foundation so that the men lurking over the presidentS shoulderS can continue their dynasty, and protect thier families and interest from YOURS.

That doesn't seem right to me. We agree about children and cattle. There is more to the matrix than at first blush. When one takes the right pill one can actually see the process but it is hard to keep in focus.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Wonderful question. I don't believe it is in there. If it is not there, then what should be the reasonable source for a definition?

Some will say if it is not defined IN the Constitution, it CANNOT be defined outside of the Constitution. Therefore, without a clear understanding of the meaning of income, the law is invalid because of vagueness.
On the other hand, others will say, "let the Supreme Court decide the meaning" and in Eisner vs Macomber they did. The SCOTUS ruled that income is gain or profit. Elsewhere, it was ruled that wages paid in exchange for labor is not gain or profit. After all, if you work an 8 hour shift for a predetermined amount of money, you are exchanging your labor for money. No one has gained or profited. Elsewhere (my apologies for not citing the actual cases here, I am going from memory and don't want to take the time to look them up, but feel free to check, the information is out there), the court ruled that your labor is your private property and that the 16th Amendment gave the government "No new taxing powers", in other words, if they did NOT have the power to tax your wages before the 16th, they do not have that power now.
Furthermore, in the IRS own documents, they say that filing and paying of said income tax is voluntary, specifically "Voluntary Compliance". Now I'm not going to ask you to give me the definition of voluntary, I think everyone here will agree what that means. Does it mean that if you do NOT comply, you will go to jail?
The "We the People" Foundation has had a $50,000 reward for anyone who could produce the law that says American citizens must pay a tax on their wages, so far nobody has collected. Also, I know of 5 ex-IRS agents that have left the Infernal Revenue Service because they have seen through the facade and their sense of justice and truth prevented them from carrying on in an illegal scam.
This is all only a tip of the iceberg. I haven't even mentioned the violation of the 5th Amendment when filing a tax return or the many other dirty little secrets that remain hidden to the uninformed.

"In a recent conversation with an official at the Internal Revenue Service, I was amazed when he told me that 'If the taxpayers of this country ever discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff, the entire system will collapse'." -- Henry Bellmon, U.S. Senator (1969).

 

[REALSTYLES]

Why don't you Obama haters run for President? All politicians are greedy dick heads with their own agenda and we the little people are the ones being fucked and as for saying Obama's not a citizen is point blank racist and ignorant with no proof. Just because one person said that comment now everyone's jumping on the band wagon

 

[beardo]

Why don't you run for President?

I am... Heres a link-,
https://www.rollitup.org/politics/308488-running-president.html