Well N A, The Tankless Water Heater is the Bomb!

[mrduke]

thanks leagally i was concerned that every 15 miniutes or so was to much but it sounds about right now. My temps top out at canopy level between 83-85. just filled the tank so we'll see how long the propane tank lasts. Sounds to me like I'm off and running with co2 started at day11 of flower ++++++ rep again if i could

 

[budleydoright]

Hows your water temps and what are you using for a cooling rez?

Overshoot can be an issue with the water cooled units because the produce so much so fast. Set it to the lowest or coldest setting.

 

[mrduke]

Hows your water temps and what are you using for a cooling rez?

right now I'm useing nothing but the cold day temps it gets to about 85 then cools off to 70ish I still need to figure somthing out for summer time.

Overshoot can be an issue with the water cooled units because the produce so much so fast. Set it to the lowest or coldest setting.

yeah its already set at lowest gas setting and highest water flow. not much inthe way of heat it only runs for about a minute and a half every 15 min or so. I'm stocked for sure

 

[boomdawg]

This is the thread where I will bust my first post cherry on! Thanks LF for what you do! I will be cloning this set up soon and got a question or two.
I have about twice the CF as you (around 1000+CF). Is the 6L gonna do the trick and just turn the burner(s) up? Or should I step up to like a 10L? A while back I was looking at the burners at the hydro shop and thought about it but passed thinking its too hot, if only there was a water cooled route. Well Fuck yeah there is!
Thanks again and good job!

 

[legallyflying]

6l should be fine. I have it turned down to the lowest possible setting. If it generates too much Co2 it will just overshoot the ppm mark. Meaning it is cranking out co2 really fast there is a lag between the time that the meter senses the ppm and shuts off and when the rest of the co2 "gets to" the meter. the higher the burn rate the more the overshooot. The 6 liter produces PLENTY of co2. Unless your room is massive it will work just fine.

 

[mrduke]

i must agree with LF my room is 11x7x7 and i have a even small heater than his and it only runs for about 1.5 minutes but still passes the designed shut off of 1500ppm and will raise to about 1650 or so. these things rock for sure.

 

[legallyflying]

Hey duke, can you post a pic when you get a chance? I feel like we are leading somekind of movement against grower price gouging

 

[boomdawg]

Ok so with the massive, rapid and abundant Co2, overshoot of the 6l and even the 5l (thanks mrduke) its a non issue. Got it. Sweet. I wonder if the 5l mrduke has would work but just take a bit longer and probably still overshoot?

I have a sealed room(s) kind of like yours in a way I think. Flower room then scrub to veg room and then back to flower room via a 3" thick Styrofoam 4'x4x4' ac air transfer chamber (all sealed)(except heat exhaust out the back) . Since the whole system is sealed and theres now abundant free c02 should I just leave all the fans on including the one scrubber fan/room transfer fans, recirc fans, etc all the time during day (co2 cycle) and nite as well? I mean shit its essentially free now so gas the whole thing during lights on and the residual can supplement the veg room...

Thanks for chiming back in mrduke and thanks for the info on the digi co2 monitor! I am wondering also about your reservoir temps (or really if its even an issue?) as I will be doing the shady side 50 gal above ground res. too. No choice concrete....

This kind of internet grassroots shit just kicks ass! Whatever I do I try to do it as cheap as possible and do as much of the work myself as possible. I like being able to get items at hydro shops but i cannot afford to pay their retirement as well. Their prices are not reasonable unless you catch some sale for big ticket stuff. For example a fucking burner (the smallest one 1G someshit) was like 4 bone with tax. WTF and no water cooling with that either. i can get a BBQ for a third of that. This was a discount hydro shop too. Anyway they are all making millions off the people selling their shit on Craigsbay. Dont get me wrong we need them as well as the dispensaries but they too overcharge everyone. So the message is "DIY"!

 

[mrduke]

yeah id love to but my druken wife lost the camera again that make like 5 in as many years. The only issue i ran into with this setup is a sump pump would loose pressure once the heater limited the flow, so i had to switch to a transfer pump. Just a inline style about the same as a sump cost me 80 buck no biggie. Another different thing i did is to keep the res in the room so the temp is a bit of a struggle, its not bad so far but come summer i'll need a chiller, which means i'll be adding more damn heat. And hell yes Im all for killing the price gouging that happens day in and day out, one step at a time

 

[boomdawg]

What size sump pump did you use? Also LF mentioned initially he used a 1/2 HP pump and then linked a 1/4 HP pump later http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-hp-115-volt-submersible-water-pump-98342.html Not sure which to use. Sorry if I missed that somewhere?
Maybe a higher rated sumper would have worked? Did you get a schurflo transfer pump? Those are cool. They have AC and DC versions.
On the plus you could probably use your res an an indoor spa! Call the wife out to the garage with margaritas and

 

[legallyflying]

I am using the one in the link. works like a charm, never had a problem with it. even with the drum burried the water still gets hot as fuck by the end of the night. Do I care? No. Does it still work like a charm. Yes.

Man, if you could recycle the water through a hot tub...now THAT would be fucking money!!

Damn, I'm actually going to think about that one.

 

[mrduke]

my little water heater has a pressure regulator built into it so if there isn't enought pressure it shuts off. it also has a overheating sensor so if the water temp coming in is to high it will shut off too. I dont know if these are features only on the eccotemp heaters or not.

yeah my water is plenty warm after a light cycle but not hot enought to shut it off and after 12 hours in a 65* roomat night it cools right off.

I use flotec 1/12 hp utility pump. i tried three different sumps and none of them would maintain constant pressure once it was regulated down by the heater.

and if the wife comes into the garage she get margaritas and not

 

[boomdawg]

LF- Your repeat mention of heating the spa is also an inspiring idea! Why not run your lines into the spa versus the underground tank? And supplementing the spa heater will make it all worthwhile untilizing that energy! I guess the big problem would be if the spa is nearby?
On that note I had a pre med brainstorm. Has anyone given thought of using the co2 from the house water heater? You could Y off the vent and get one of those vents that open and close electronically and a blower fan and hook it all up to the controller! Distance is probably key here as well and Im guessing you would need an older pilot light water heater? I dont know just a thought.

 

[boomdawg]

LOL MrDuke!
Ok I am gonna do it a tad different. Component wise I am going to clone your (LF) set up minus the co2 controller Ill use Digi.
For the tank I am going to try a large liquid food tank that i scooped up a while back. Its like 300 gallons. My idea is to use more water to keep water temps down. I know it probably doesnt matter but WTF I have the tank. Ill throw a pic of it later. Now I am hoping this works but really dont know if more H20 will make a difference. One reason I am not sure is my aeroponic cloner initially had water covering the pump and I thought add more water and it would lower temps. It did not lower cloner temps and ambient temps were the same. I cant explain that... I am 2-4 weeks out on this project and will post back when I gettit done.

 

[budleydoright]

No doubt the more water you have the better and cooler your temps. I think the point I have tried to make is that the water temp while it does matter, will not keep the burner from working well if it gets hot. they still remove an incredible amount of heat.

I think a chiller is overkill for a burner, I bet a simple heat exchanger and fan will do the trick. If you go with a chiller, you may as well try to chill your lights as well. Be easy to build your own icebox type heat exchanger. I'm a total DIY type, and have been thinking about building something along these lines.

 

[legallyflying]

Simple physics my friend. Your water (no matter how much, will equalize to ambient temps). Your increase above ambient will decrease with increasing water volume. House water heater..possible but difficulties are serious. One it's cycling on and off all the time but the biggest issue is getting the exhaust to the room
The flows have to be just right not to fuck with combustion and you would have to go horizontal pretty quickly and that is generally a no no unless it was designed for it. Lastly, the gas would be much hotter as it doesnt flow through a heat exchanger like the tankless does

 

[mrduke]

No doubt the more water you have the better and cooler your temps. I think the point I have tried to make is that the water temp while it does matter, will not keep the burner from working well if it gets hot. they still remove an incredible amount of heat.

I think a chiller is overkill for a burner, I bet a simple heat exchanger and fan will do the trick. If you go with a chiller, you may as well try to chill your lights as well. Be easy to build your own icebox type heat exchanger. I'm a total DIY type, and have been thinking about building something along these lines.

what is this heat exchanger you talk about? I've been thinking of a chiller but really dont want to drop 400 plus run like 5 more amps of power half the day.do you have some links or a place to buy one of these .

 

[budleydoright]

Best cost growers makers of the fresca sol make the heat extractor but really all we're talking about here is a water to air heat exchanger. Do a search on ebay. It could be a heater core or a radiator for a car.

You could also make my 100 air conditioner chiller. they will last a few years

.
Anybody can make one., and it will certainly get you through the heat of the summer. Probably only run for a few minutes an hour.

 

[guy incognito]

Awesome thread. My room is about 10' X 20' X 7', with 3 tents all 4x4. Air cooled lights pulling outside air and dumping to outside. I am on the 2nd floor of the house though with no NG hook up or water hook up. How difficult is it to run a NG pipe? The only access I can think of to my 2nd floor would be through the heating duct from the basement. I can disconnect the duct from the main heating duct (and seal it off there) and just use the duct from the basement to the 2nd floor as a conduit (The duct is unused anyway. It's virtually useless as is without a duct booster). Certainly not to code, but no one will inspect this either as it will be taken back to it's current state when I am finished with this grow location.

Anyway, I have a NG pipe and cold water supply not far from the duct in the basement. I was thinking I could tap into the NG line and run a vertical section of about 12' up to the room. And also run several hoses (one for water supply, one for water drain, and 2 to the tankless water heater). If I keep the reservoir upstairs I have no doubt it will get way too hot. Does it sound reasonable to have the res in my basement, and pump the water up about 25' to the heater and have it drain back down to the res? Is that too high to pump? Or will I need an oversized industrial pump to accomplish this?

I have crops coming in and should recoup several thousand $ in the next couple months. I think it will be worth the $ to reinvest to get a cheap automated co2 system set up. I want to run water and drain lines to the room anyway, and will most likely be using the unused heating duct as a conduit.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[legallyflying]

First off, I must say that you better be fairly handy to attempt what your trying to do. I'm not a strict code compliance guy or anything but when dealing with NG you obviously have to be safe for the obvious reasons. You can run the pipe through a wall or through a chase or vent duct but the first thing you have to ask yourself is..can I fit a 12' pipe up there? Like physically get it in there.If you have 8' ceiling you probably can. If not, your going to have to combine pipes as you push them up the chase.

First things first however... You have to find a joint to T into. So you need to find out where the nearest pipe joint is that you can unthread and put a T into. That is where your obviously going to start. I would bet money that the joint is near your furnace in the basement.

You will be using the black iron pipe and you use the YELLOW TEFLON TAPE for gas lines not the white stuff used for water lines. Your going to need the following things...1/2 " black iron T, 1/4 turn gas valve, enough 1/2" black iron pipe to get close to your burner location, and a 2' or 4' section of flexible gas line (i.e. dryer connection pipe...they sell it at HD).

There is no such thing as getting the water "too hot". Or at least I think there isn't . Unless radiant heat from the water drum is going to be an issue I would just put it upstairs. I used rubber garden hose to convey my water too and from the burner. You can find a sump pump that will lift to 25' , water flow shouldn't be too much of an issue, you don't need a whole hell of allot. Your also going to have to run an extension cord from your controller to the pump in the basement.

Does this help?