PH, Lime...... Help please :P
- Thread starter sputniknz
- Start date
sputniknz
Active Member
best advice... thnx.... how often do you do it, weekly etc...
sputniknz
Active Member
dude... this did not help at all
SCARHOLE
Well-Known Member
My bag says "apply once a year". Seems like this stuff is long lasting.
But im not sure how often is safe, the bags directions for use kinda sux.
Biological Graffity
Active Member
....I use a few fistfulls before watering on a 7 gal pot till Ph reads 6.9
swantip
Well-Known Member
hey,i also have the same problem.My plant is 3 weeks old and the edges of its leaves are starting to get yellow-brown.the ph is around 5.4-5.6. how should i apply the lime in the soil of a growing plant? just mix the lime with water and give it to the surface of the soil or should i mix the soil with my hands after watering it with the lime?
Illumination
New Member
well then go for it and good luck
Nullis
Moderator
Lime is not what you want if your pH is already between 6-7. Sorry to add more confusion, but garden lime/dolomite lime/hydrated lime is to raise your pH up to the acceptable range (again, between 6-7).
If your pH is already upwards of 7, lime certainly is not going to help bring it down (although after a certain point it is possible that there is a plateau of some sort where the lime just isn't going to raise it anymore, either). You want something which is acidic to lower the pH and lime doesn't fit the bill.
You can either add soil acidifier/garden sulfur to your medium, or you can allow your fertigation solutions to be more acidic via addition of other strongly acidic nutrients (most organic nutrients are, such as Earth Juice) or perhaps even blackstrap molasses, which is acidic. Another thing you might consider is filtering your tap water with reverse osmosis or even a tabletop Brita/Pur/Zero-Water filter which will help remove whatever dissolved solids are causing the high pH.
You might also consider mixing spring/bottled/distilled water with your tap water to achieve a more appropriate pH.
Nullis
Moderator
No, you have the opposite 'problem' as the OP. But, lime is the solution in your case... not the OP's. You can start by mixing a tablespoon of powdered dolomite or garden lime (calcium carbonate) to a gallon of water, agitate continuously because it does not actually dissolve in the water. I find it easier to mix say a teaspoon per 3-4 cups of water in a smaller bottle and agitate continuously while I pre-water each plant with it. Then I water it in more thoroughly with my usual fertigation mixture/solution.
As for the OP, if your pH isn't much higher than 7 that isn't a huge issue. It should be easily remedied by making your water slightly more acidic.
sputniknz
Active Member
ok... this was a great read, but my tap water is 8, after adding nutes it goes down to 5.5, when i collect runnoff it goes back to 7.2. I beleive this indicates (approx) a soil ph of around 7.5 or 7.6. Im noticing my plants are stunted, not flowering and struggling overall.... but at they same time they look healthy if you know what i mean. So do you still think i should forget the lime?
Nullis
Moderator
Yes, forget the lime. People seem to think that lime is the solution to all pH problems, but this is not so. Don't be afraid to make your fertigation solution more acidic (even below 5 in your case); or whenever you planned on giving plain water instead add in 1/2 tablespoon (or up to 1 tbsp) of blackstrap molasses to keep all water applied on the acidic side.
Soil pH has a tendency to change as the plants and microbes utilize or exchange ions in the soil. pH will shift up or down continuously depending on whether the plant is absorbing more anions or cations, and will further change as microbes utilize H+ ions or pump OH- into solution.
Whether run-off is an accurate indication of soil pH/how accurate it is exactly is arguable, I would followup with an actual soil pH test. They sell inexpensive testing capsules designed for soil. You fill the included plastic sampler with soil up to the first line, empty the contents of the capsule, fill up to the second line with water, shake and wait for the color change. I've also heard that with regular pH testing drops you could/would want to soak x amount of soil in a cup of water for a while, and then test some of that water for a more accurate result.
Soil pH has a tendency to change as the plants and microbes utilize or exchange ions in the soil. pH will shift up or down continuously depending on whether the plant is absorbing more anions or cations, and will further change as microbes utilize H+ ions or pump OH- into solution.
Whether run-off is an accurate indication of soil pH/how accurate it is exactly is arguable, I would followup with an actual soil pH test. They sell inexpensive testing capsules designed for soil. You fill the included plastic sampler with soil up to the first line, empty the contents of the capsule, fill up to the second line with water, shake and wait for the color change. I've also heard that with regular pH testing drops you could/would want to soak x amount of soil in a cup of water for a while, and then test some of that water for a more accurate result.
sputniknz
Active Member
i just bought a ph test kit... will post results, please check back soon and give me some more of your brain.
sputniknz
Active Member
i feel like breaking my other ph tester, the test kit i bought today says ph is 7.0.... which brings me back to my original problem.... 2 x lowryder autos @ 70 days... under 600 HPS, plants look stunning but no buds.... 16/8 lights..... plants look like they re vegged....wtf do i do now 
Jdubb203
Well-Known Member
I give you the secret but you can't tell anyone next time mix 1 teaspoon of dolomite lime per gallon of soil. This lime has a ph of 7 it will not raise or lower like people are saying it will buffer your soil to right ph. I started doing this after having ph problems on and off. Now I do this when I transplant it works so great I don't EVER check my ph plants look so good and green they look fake so they tell me lol.
Los Muertos
Active Member
WTF...no buds at all? I don't think autos really have a veg state like normal plants do. I kept autos a while back at 24/0 and theyi feel like breaking my other ph tester, the test kit i bought today says ph is 7.0.... which brings me back to my original problem.... 2 x lowryder autos @ 70 days... under 600 HPS, plants look stunning but no buds.... 16/8 lights..... plants look like they re vegged....wtf do i do now
were done at 9 weeks. Wasn't worth the effort imo though. Just ok smoke and very disappointing yield. Hope everything works out.
lime73
Weed Modifier
Exactly! I use vinegar to lower ph from 8.0-6.5(soil)
apx 1ml/liter
sputniknz
Active Member
ok.... but why arent they budding?? i see pistils everywhere, i have had problems but at 70 days i would still think a few buds should be showing.... here are some pics....
the second last picture (the one with the spray bottle hanging on door handle for size) has a problem i have seen before... will elaborrate on next post.
the second last picture (the one with the spray bottle hanging on door handle for size) has a problem i have seen before... will elaborrate on next post.
sputniknz
Active Member
ok... so to elaborate further... the plant in the second last pic of my previous post has leaves underneath with VERY similar colouring to the leaves in the pic (NOT MINE) below.... it says that this is a zinc deficiency, i have given a boost of trace elements over 1 week ago but although new growth doesnt show this colouring the old growth still has it..... advice is greatly appreciated.
Zinc (Zn) Micro Nutrient and an Immobile element.
Zinc plays a lot of roles in the plants, first off zinc aids in the plants size and maturity as well as production of leaves, stalks, stems and branches. Zinc is an essential component in many enzymes as well as growth hormone auxin .Low auxin levels can be the cause of stunting of the plants leaves and the shoots. Zinc is also important in the formation and activity of chlorophyll. Plants that have a good level of Zinc, can handle long droughts. So thats why Zinc plants an important role how it absorbs moisture.
Zinc deficiencies on some plants will have the Spotting and bleached spots (chlorosis) between the veins first appears on the older leaves first, and then goes on to the immature leaves. It will then start to slowly affect tips of growing points of the plants. When the zinc deficiency happens so suddenly, the spotting can appear to be the same symptoms to that of an iron and manganese, without the seeing the little leaf symptom.
Zinc is not mobile in plants so the symptoms will occur mainly in the newer growths. Having a plant that is deficiency in Zinc can cause small crops, short shoots and have a cluster of small distorted leaves near the tips. Between the veins (Interveinal) yellowing is often combined with overall paleness. Pale or grayish, yellowing between the veins; rosetted weak is the signs of a Zinc deficiency.
With a low level of zinc in your plants, your yields will be dramatically reduced.
Interveinal chlorosis is present in the small, narrow distorted leaves at the ends of really shortened shoots and the shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. These nutrients will get locked out due to high pH: Zinc, Iron, and Manganese. These deficiencies will often occur together. Parts affected by a zinc deficiency are young leaves and petioles.
Having an excess of Zinc is very rare, but when it does happen it can cause wilting and in worse cases death.
Problems with Zinc being locked out by PH troubles
High ph, Low organic matter, High Phosphorus levels in the soil, and or lack of nitrogen.
Soil
Zinc gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.5-4.7, 7.5-9.5
Zinc absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 5.0-7.0 (Wouldnt recommend having a soil ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Zinc gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.7-8.5
Zinc is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0-5.5 (Wouldnt recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Zinc deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have potassium in them will fix a Zinc deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
And any of the following nutrients will fix a zinc deficiency: Zinc sulfate, zinc chelated, or zinc oxides are adequate fertilizer sources for zinc. Or you can bury galvanized nails in the soil. (Make sure you take off the sharp point at the end to prevent roots from being damaged) Garden Manure, which is slow acting. Greensands, Cottonseed Meal are both medium/slow absorption as well.
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Zinc (Zn) Micro Nutrient and an Immobile element.
Zinc plays a lot of roles in the plants, first off zinc aids in the plants size and maturity as well as production of leaves, stalks, stems and branches. Zinc is an essential component in many enzymes as well as growth hormone auxin .Low auxin levels can be the cause of stunting of the plants leaves and the shoots. Zinc is also important in the formation and activity of chlorophyll. Plants that have a good level of Zinc, can handle long droughts. So thats why Zinc plants an important role how it absorbs moisture.
Zinc deficiencies on some plants will have the Spotting and bleached spots (chlorosis) between the veins first appears on the older leaves first, and then goes on to the immature leaves. It will then start to slowly affect tips of growing points of the plants. When the zinc deficiency happens so suddenly, the spotting can appear to be the same symptoms to that of an iron and manganese, without the seeing the little leaf symptom.
Zinc is not mobile in plants so the symptoms will occur mainly in the newer growths. Having a plant that is deficiency in Zinc can cause small crops, short shoots and have a cluster of small distorted leaves near the tips. Between the veins (Interveinal) yellowing is often combined with overall paleness. Pale or grayish, yellowing between the veins; rosetted weak is the signs of a Zinc deficiency.
With a low level of zinc in your plants, your yields will be dramatically reduced.
Interveinal chlorosis is present in the small, narrow distorted leaves at the ends of really shortened shoots and the shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. These nutrients will get locked out due to high pH: Zinc, Iron, and Manganese. These deficiencies will often occur together. Parts affected by a zinc deficiency are young leaves and petioles.
Having an excess of Zinc is very rare, but when it does happen it can cause wilting and in worse cases death.
Problems with Zinc being locked out by PH troubles
High ph, Low organic matter, High Phosphorus levels in the soil, and or lack of nitrogen.
Soil
Zinc gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.5-4.7, 7.5-9.5
Zinc absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 5.0-7.0 (Wouldnt recommend having a soil ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Zinc gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.7-8.5
Zinc is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0-5.5 (Wouldnt recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Zinc Deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Zinc deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have potassium in them will fix a Zinc deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
And any of the following nutrients will fix a zinc deficiency: Zinc sulfate, zinc chelated, or zinc oxides are adequate fertilizer sources for zinc. Or you can bury galvanized nails in the soil. (Make sure you take off the sharp point at the end to prevent roots from being damaged) Garden Manure, which is slow acting. Greensands, Cottonseed Meal are both medium/slow absorption as well.
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Nullis
Moderator
You're partially right but mostly very wrong. Lime WILL RAISE soil pH. Adding too much lime could RAISE soil pH higher than 7. But, lime definitely WILL NOT EVER LOWER pH.
If you don't believe what [most] other people are saying perhaps do a google search to verify before posting bad info. And don't count on other cannabis growing forums to have the facts, there are plenty of legit gardening, horticultural, college or government (local state agency) websites with good information on soil matters.
sputniknz, if your leaves kinda look that that except on the lower growth then that seems like a magnesium deficiency.
