SAR Research

[KakKakKax]

I am starting this thread because I'm very interested in the SAR response and the specific components we can use to elicit it.

I purchase the YEA! brand of Chitosan and applied it tonight to my month old Afgani and SF Exotic Purple clones tonight and will apply to my Bubba Kush, Black Dalia, Super Silver Haze, Bigfoot and Blueberry ladies at week 6 of flowering. I'm throwing up what I have tonight but I encourage anyone who has any experience with; Scorpion Juice, willow water, Messenger (or blow me away and talk about YEA!) to share their experiences.

I am new to this but I want to grow like a scientist, friends and allies are always welcome.

 

[bish]

Hey is this thread dead? I am trying to do SAR research. Oh well. Bud factor x is for SAR response.

 

[newworldicon]

So how are you finding the YEA! ....???

 

[Wolverine97]

Welp, since this has been brought back from the dead I'm interested as well. I've been doing a fair bit of reading about the SAR response, and I've tried several products which claim to be made for this. I'm trying insect frass this time, we'll see how it goes.

 

[newworldicon]

Welp, since this has been brought back from the dead I'm interested as well. I've been doing a fair bit of reading about the SAR response, and I've tried several products which claim to be made for this. I'm trying insect frass this time, we'll see how it goes.

Do you mind sharing what you have learnt please?

 

[Wolverine97]

Results are inconclusive. Cannazyme is supposed to elicit SAR response, but while I feel that I have heartier plants while using it I don't see a great increase in production or anything from its use. Budfactor X on the other hand I would say did increase plant growth and yield, but I didn't run a control so it's just my opinion at this point. I had also read that aspirin could have the same effect, but I don't think I really saw a difference with it. I'm generally not a fan of AN, but I'm definitely going to run the Budfactor X with a control plant to compare , but the current grow won't allow a proper control so that will have to wait.

 

[newworldicon]

Results are inconclusive. Cannazyme is supposed to elicit SAR response, but while I feel that I have heartier plants while using it I don't see a great increase in production or anything from its use. Budfactor X on the other hand I would say did increase plant growth and yield, but I didn't run a control so it's just my opinion at this point. I had also read that aspirin could have the same effect, but I don't think I really saw a difference with it. I'm generally not a fan of AN, but I'm definitely going to run the Budfactor X with a control plant to compare , but the current grow won't allow a proper control so that will have to wait.

Thanks for that, what sort of ratios of the aspirin did you use out of interest? I'll also wait for your results with the Budfactor X before buying it.

 

[Wolverine97]

325 mg/gallon

 

[WAWill]

Meh, I don't care how old this thread is. I've got what feels like a good nug to add...

I just did some searching surrounding this, and what Wolvie is saying seems to be fairly close to confirmed.

I've been told not to provide links so search "systemic acquired resistance salicylic acid" if you want more info, but basically when this response occurs naturally at an infection or damage site:
"The most likely trigger for this response is methylsalicyclic acid—produced in large quantities around the infection site. The phloem carries it to the rest of the plant. At sites away from the infection, it is converted to salicylic acid."
...and salicylic acid itself...
"A white crystalline organic acid, 2-hydroxybenzoic acid, C6H4(OH)(COOH), used in the production of aspirin and other industrial chemicals."

So, we're trying to get the end response without the damaging stimulus or even initial damage-response compound, just that which induces the protective, and in our case heady, response for which we're looking. Also, "used in the production of" may not mean "contains" such that you could make anything as effective as Bud Factor X, but I do recall my father having a planter's wart when I was a kid and having to put this weird stuff on it - salicylic acid. Unfortunately, I have a hazy (I think I was like 7) recollection that it had been a prescription...

...actually, just checked - nope, no prescription. "Dr. Scholl's Clear Away Plantar, Salicylic Acid Wart Remover for Feet". So I assume you could find it in a soluble form, then it's just a question of a run through peripheral ingredients for potential problems like "mmm, let's throw some antibiotics in there", some calculations and a little careful testing to reach the right dilution, and you've got home made Bud Factor X...er, well, at least one ingredient that probably exists in it.

About $100 for a litre of BFX.
About $10 for .3oz of concentrated salicylic acid wart remover.

So, if by some luck BFX is really just a dialed-in concentration in solution of SA, I guess it's a question of ratio for value - for the same money, you get about 3oz SA concentrate or 1litre(about 34 fluid oz) of solution. Meaning, if the dialed-in dilution of SA found in these wart-intended concentrates would be greater than something like 11.5:1 water:SAConcentrate in favor of water, then you've matched the BFX price point. Thinking back to seeing my dad put that weird stuff on his plantar's wart (it friggin' SMOKED, I kid you not!), I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ratio is EXTREMELY high, and that the cost analysis works out.

...oooor I could just buy some damn BFX...I do love knowing about this stuff, but the older I get, the more I understand the true and significant VALUE of convenience.


+ edit: continuing to look around about this, and would now suggest searching "Inducing Systemic Acquired Resistance: Helping Plants Help Themselves". So, I guess there are other likely inducements in BFX, but we still may be able to DIY 'em. Looking more and more like the nuances of the best ratios in multiple compounds might bear out the cost of the BFX though...

 

[WAWill]

Okay, I'm going off the deep end here, but this is AMAZING if true:

"While researching which insecticides to use in our integrated pest management program several years ago, I was drawn to a class of chemicals called neonicotinoides, or synthetic nicotine. There are several neonicotinoides on the market that contain imidacloprid, which is the active ingredient that induces the SAR response. At least one company has picked up on the SAR attributes by advertising the vigor response side effect when using this class of insecticide, which is easier than explaining systemic acquired resistance."

So, a pure imidacloprid pesticide, with some tiny amount of salicylic acid could be a good (and cheap) thing. I wonder if one could get the benefit applying during veg as a foliar feed to keep the imacloprid in the rhizosphere to a minimum, and what the actual effect of imidacloprid on the rhizosphere's beneficial denizens would be if one did apply as part of regular watering? If anyone with some hardcore knowledge about imidacloprid reads, I'd deeply appreciate further info or just as nudge toward where I might find it.

From the same article:
"Other materials we use in the nursery activate pathogenesis-related gene expression and induce SAR. Silicon induces the SAR response and enables suberization (cork development in cell walls). Since most soilless mixes do not contain silicon, we add wood ash from burning tree branches from around the nursery and the mineral olivine, which is magnesium/iron silicate. As a result, the stiffening of cell walls almost eliminates the need to use PGRs on most plants."

...So, no more need for Silica Blast then maybe?

Well, whether this gets any of us any closer to making more of our own supplements or not, I always find knowing this stuff helps me understand a plant's responses and, even when using commercial products, meet them appropriately. I hope someone else does too.