is USA really bankrupt
- Thread starter DrFever
- Start date
Serapis
Well-Known Member
It isn't affecting the world wide commodity markets..... I understand your answer in reference to America, but world wide? It's the fact that capitalism embraces the highest bidder. Speculation on commodity futures in the various world markets is where the inflationary pressure is coming from. In fact, with world markets linked as they are with technology of today, a single entity could attempt to corner the futures market on a specific commodity if they had enough to cover the call.
While the majority of inflation is indeed caused by a rise in available currency, history has shown that there are other inflationary pressures as well, such as a perceived or actual shortage of a commodity. Speculation that a certain commodity may be scarcer in the future also contributes to inflation. Your argument is only standing on one foot. Take a look at the other causes of actual inflation and forget the book definition for a second...
While the majority of inflation is indeed caused by a rise in available currency, history has shown that there are other inflationary pressures as well, such as a perceived or actual shortage of a commodity. Speculation that a certain commodity may be scarcer in the future also contributes to inflation. Your argument is only standing on one foot. Take a look at the other causes of actual inflation and forget the book definition for a second...
Serapis
Well-Known Member
mame
Well-Known Member
Inflation is essentially the lesser of two evils unfortunately; Bernanke has it right with QE2.
We're in a liquidity trap now (because the government failed to act quickly enough or with enough cash), meaning that monetary policies like the current low interest rates aren't going to work like they normally would to stimulate the economy (although the current rates need to stay low for now or the economy will get worse). However, what QE2 does do is spark inflation which DOES have positive effects including ensuring central banks can adjust nominal interest rates( which are intended to mitigate recessions), and encouraging investment in non-monetary capital projects.
The FED wouldn't have to do this, of course, if Congress wasn't so retarded; We had a chance with the stimulus bill and due to it's small size and inappropriete allocation of dollars; (Nearly half of the bill was tax cuts... the rich "job creators" dont need extra money, they need more customers... The rich are currently holding onto as much as 3.6 TRILLION dollars because they dont need to invest it, and why would they?) There isn't enough demand.
Honestly, the whole concept of a liquidity trap is very complicated and is a whole beast of it's own, creating uncertainty among those who are aware of it (people with money). There are people in power who know what they're doing (Bernanke, Obama) but action is obviously limited due to seemingly uninformed political forces as evidenced by the backlash against Burnanke's QE2 (essentially our only option at this point) and Obama's "failed" stimulus (which didn't work as well as it could have because there wasn't enough cash put into it, NOT because stimulus spending doesn't work).
We're in a liquidity trap now (because the government failed to act quickly enough or with enough cash), meaning that monetary policies like the current low interest rates aren't going to work like they normally would to stimulate the economy (although the current rates need to stay low for now or the economy will get worse). However, what QE2 does do is spark inflation which DOES have positive effects including ensuring central banks can adjust nominal interest rates( which are intended to mitigate recessions), and encouraging investment in non-monetary capital projects.
The FED wouldn't have to do this, of course, if Congress wasn't so retarded; We had a chance with the stimulus bill and due to it's small size and inappropriete allocation of dollars; (Nearly half of the bill was tax cuts... the rich "job creators" dont need extra money, they need more customers... The rich are currently holding onto as much as 3.6 TRILLION dollars because they dont need to invest it, and why would they?) There isn't enough demand.
Honestly, the whole concept of a liquidity trap is very complicated and is a whole beast of it's own, creating uncertainty among those who are aware of it (people with money). There are people in power who know what they're doing (Bernanke, Obama) but action is obviously limited due to seemingly uninformed political forces as evidenced by the backlash against Burnanke's QE2 (essentially our only option at this point) and Obama's "failed" stimulus (which didn't work as well as it could have because there wasn't enough cash put into it, NOT because stimulus spending doesn't work).
There is no "Liquidity" trap because there is no liquidity. Every large bank in the world is pretty much completely bankrupt. The derivatives market is 30 times world GDP...$1.24 Quadrillion in size. The only thing propping these banks up is the suspension of Accounting rules and pure money printing. The initial stimulus package wasn't large enough? Do you even know how big it was? The Stimulus + TARP was over $3.3 Trillion. You must get your news from MSNBC, those crack heads don't know the difference between inflation and demand driven price increase. Obama couldn't balance his checkbook and you think he knows what he is doing? LOL Obama doesn't have ANY SAY in what the Fed does, the Fed cannot be overruled in the actions it takes.
Your assumption that Congress is retarded is spot on.
Deflation is better for the US Citizen, inflation is better for the government.
Your assumption that Congress is retarded is spot on.
Deflation is better for the US Citizen, inflation is better for the government.
beardo
Well-Known Member
Poland for one but their are many others
beardo
Well-Known Member
If they want to do a stimulus to help the economy I have an idea that makes sense in many levels. Take the money and build factories - only Americans and American companies can be hired to build these factories. Use the factories to make bicycles and they will only be made of American produced components by Americans then instead of giving everyone a tax credit give them a bicycle it will reduce the need for oil and help peoples health lowering health care costs as well as creating jobs...after they have built everyone a bike they could focus on export production or start converting the factories to other production
Its a great idea, but i bet that 99% of people still won't give up their car and start riding a bike. You want to help the economy? Let it crash quickly so we can get to the job of building a better one from the ground up.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
That hardly answers my inquiry.... What law allows foreign troops on our soil? Specifically please, because a lot of conservative Tea Partiers were spewing that last year and it was bogus. There is no law allowing foreign troops on our soil at their whim... That is pure stupid.. I did your search, which one of those 8 million hits should I look into? A lot of it is conspiracy talk back in 2008....
Serapis
Well-Known Member
There are no standing laws or orders that allow foreign troops onto US soil. I'm sure if we held joint training exercises, sure.... after all, we do it in Germany, S. Korea, Japan, and many of our other allies.... My question to you is, what was your point or actual claim?
I don't think you understand how Laws work. There is no law prohibiting foreign troops here, thats all that matters. Laws do not grant you rights or privileges, laws only restrict them.
The funny thing is that when confronted with evidence you refuse to even look. You can lead a horse to water.......
mame
Well-Known Member
You're wrong on a few points and I'll explain why:
First, we are in fact in a liquidity trap. Paul Krugman believes we are in a liquidity trap . This is reinforced by Burnanke's QE2, which has been criticized for causing inflation - but that is part of the plan because - like you said - inflation punishes people. Savers to be exact. Those people with 3.6 trillion dollars put away, afraid to invest, may not have a choice soon enough.
Second, derivatives are not the devil. The way they are being used however, is. Warren Buffet explains a bit here (and in another article that seems to be aluding me... it's from a couple of days ago). Derivatives can and often times do serve a good purpose; I'd argue that with sufficient regulation - uncluding caps on net "bets" that companies take (maybe based on the companies net worth?) - derivatives can (and they do) help companies and can potentially help the economy... The key word here is responsibility. I'd compare Derivatives to Nuclear power plants; Very useful but obviously, comes with risks that need to be accounted for.
Third, I never said Obama controls the fed. I simply said that he is one of the few in power that actually knows what he is doing. My criticism of Obama is he is trying to hard to be a Post-Partisan (although I know it is so he can be reelected) and so he is giving into the Republicans far too much.
fourth, a quick internet search shows that TARP cost 109 BILLION dollars. I found no source claiming that the $850 billion stimulus was actually 32+ trillion dollars... The burden of proof is on you here bud.
oh and I dont watch MSNBC; I hardly even watch CNN anymore. Sometimes, when nothing is on TV and I need a laugh I put Fox News on... lol.
Your whole post went like this: I don't know, but these really smart people we hear about on TV said so. In my book its a logical fallacy, an appeal to authority. Neither of the people you cited has any experience running the worlds largest economy. One is a Teacher, the other a investor.
Obama doesn't know what he is doing, he already spent more of your money than all other presidents combined. The economy is still tanking.
Couldn't find any info on the secret bailouts eh?
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/real-size-bailout-treasury-fed
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/business/worldbusiness/22iht-22global.16350861.html
http://nation.foxnews.com/bailouts/2010/12/02/shocking-fed-s-trillion-dollar-foreign-bank-bailout
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/02/924883/-The-$33-Trillion-Wall-Street-Foreign-Bank-Bailout
BTW I meant 3.3 Trillion not thirty three, musta forgot the decimal. but anyway there is all that Proof you were looking for.
Obama doesn't know what he is doing, he already spent more of your money than all other presidents combined. The economy is still tanking.
Couldn't find any info on the secret bailouts eh?
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/real-size-bailout-treasury-fed
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/business/worldbusiness/22iht-22global.16350861.html
http://nation.foxnews.com/bailouts/2010/12/02/shocking-fed-s-trillion-dollar-foreign-bank-bailout
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/02/924883/-The-$33-Trillion-Wall-Street-Foreign-Bank-Bailout
BTW I meant 3.3 Trillion not thirty three, musta forgot the decimal. but anyway there is all that Proof you were looking for.
mame
Well-Known Member
So the internet at my post but it boiled down to a few things:
1)Paul Krugman is much more than just a 'teacher'. He is a widely respected economist of whom has proven himself correct multiple times in the past. His assertions aren't just opinions, they are analysis based on math and the principles of Kaynesianism. He won a Nobel Peace Prize in Economics. His assertions are not valid?
2) Warren Buffet is essentially the man to talk to when talking about derivatives. His arguement is that they do have a place in finance/investing as a limited tool and that they should be regulated. His opinion is credible because well, look at his success in the industry. Lawmakers have always used experts so why shouldn't I?
You've got to learn from somebody. I mean, everything we know in society came from somewhere... You didn't just sit there all by yourself and all of the sudden know more about the economy than somone who spent their entire life studying it. You seem to have an attitude of challenging what has already been accepted as fact. There is nothing wrong with me citing sources, in fact, politicians must cite their sources. Teachers require you cite your sources. Having support for one's arguement does not display weakness or a sheeplike mentality as you seem to be implying... It only strengthens my argument.
3)Obama is following the principles of Kaynesianism and so, has done pretty much what he should have done... Although he should have gotten more infrastrucure spending into the $850 billion stimulus bill and less tax cuts. The economy is no longer tanking, it is recovering very very very slowly... and the recovery would have been faster with more (STIMULUS NOT BAILOUT) spending.
4) And yes, I do remember the FED's secret bailouts( I was using keywords like Stimulus, 33 trillion.. got nothing). I disagree with the way it was done as the FED is not part of the legislative branch; Only Congress should gamble away our tax dollars. Thomas Jefferson opposed the idea of giving a central bank that much power and what the FED did may even be against the constitution. However, I can't argue against the policy's effectiveness because the only evidence one could look toward is those companies preformance since then. I'm going to put a wild guess out there and say most those banks are still operating and employ Americans... So the FED probably feels like they did the right thing. This was not part of TARP, however; TARP was authorized by congress.
mame
Well-Known Member
Recomended reading: http://www.amazon.com/General-Theory-Employment-Interest-Money/dp/1573921394
DrFever
New Member
The 10 economic charts that you are about to see are completely and totally shocking. If you know anyone that still does not believe that the United States is in the midst of a long-term economic decline, just show them these charts. Sometimes you can quote economic statistics to people until you are blue in the face and it won't do any good, but when those same people see charts and pictures suddenly it all sinks in. What is great about charts is that you can very easily demonstrate what has been happening to the economy over an extended period of time. As you examine the economic charts below, pay special attention to what has been happening to the U.S. economy over the last 30 or 40 years. The truth is that what is wrong with the U.S. economy is not a great mystery. All of the economic problems that we are experiencing now have taken decades to develop. Hopefully the charts in this article will help people realize just how nightmarish our economic problems have become, because until people start realizing how incredibly bad things have gotten they will never be willing to accept the dramatic solutions that are necessary to fix our financial system.The sad fact of the matter is that we have been living in the biggest debt bubble in the history of the world over the last 40 years. All of this debt has purchased a wonderful standard of living for the vast majority of us, but all of this debt has also destroyed the economic future of our children and our grandchildren. Someday future generations will look back on what we have done in absolute horror.
The 10 economic charts posted below are meant to shock you. Most Americans today need to be shocked before they will be motivated to take action. Please share these charts with as many people as you can. Hopefully we can wake enough people up that something will be done about all of these problems while there is still time.
1 - Government spending is expanding at an exponential rate. As you can see from the chart below, federal spending is almost 18 times higher than it was back in 1970. Now Barack Obama has proposed a budget that would increase U.S. government spending to 5.6 trillion dollars in 2021. Just imagine what the following chart would look like if that happens....
