• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

is USA really bankrupt

DrFever

New Member
[SIZE=+3]The USA Is Already Bankrupt![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]YOU are the last generation living in the twilight near the edge of the abyss![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]No Empire has EVER lasted forever, not even the mighty Roman's![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Congress is marching us all down a similar political and ideological path as[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]the Roman's once took. Governments backed only with military force as their[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]only true source of revenue and power soon fall. We have become such an empire.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The end with be tyrannical, violent, maybe [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]vicious[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]! IF you are one of the lucky few[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]citizens with any valuables left you will have to defend them from seizure not only[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]from an increasingly aggressive government taxation force but also from your[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]fellow citizens that have already hit rock bottom and are homeless by the millions.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]If you can afford to leave the USA make plans now![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]Havens for the wealthy are sprouting up like weeds[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]all over the world NOW! The exodus of the wealthy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]from Europe, Japan and the USA is well underway![/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]If you stay here be sure to hide your assets very well!!! Do not keep your money in[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]the[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]bank!!! Do not hide cash under the mattress either as inflation can turn that[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]into a pile of worthless paper in only a few BAD years. Invest in durable goods[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]and non-perishable inventory. Hide it well from the prying eyes of both government[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]and citizen thieves alike! With these assets your family can barter for food, medicine[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]and any of the other basic necessities of life in the turbulent years to come.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]THE UNPREPARED ARE NOT GOING TO DO WELL WHEN THIS TIME COMES![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]United States Congressional Record - March 17, 1993 - Vol. #33, page H-1303 - Speaker- Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11. Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a coroner's report that will lead to our demise."[/SIZE]

Imagine for a moment that someone inherits a farm. Let's say that the farm has good topsoil, a good well, good breeding stock, good seed, and excellent farm equipment in good repair. Prior to passing into the control of the present owner the farm did a good business selling vegetables, meat, and dairy products to the local market, and it made a small profit. But let us suppose for a moment that the present owner of the farm doesn't understand farming, or isn't even really interested in learning. The present owner has no objection to standing around looking good, so he stays at the farm, standing in front of it, looking good to passers by. Of course, the bills still come in, so our farmer puts them on his credit card. When that bill comes due he uses another credit card, Then another. Pretty soon the interest payments alone are higher than his bills and the banks get nervous and call him. No problem. Our farmer sells the tractor, takes the money around to the various credit cards, the food store, the utilities, and pays off all his bills. Then he stands around in front of the farm looking good to passers-by, the lord of his domain. Will, the bills still come in. Again the credit cards get loaded up. So, this time our farmer sells the harvester. Then later on, the cattle, then the chickens, then the seeds, then he leases the well to his neighbor and finally sells the top soil from his farm to another farm down the road whose soil is getting tired. The cash is taken around to the various creditors, the food store, the utilities, etc. Now at this point, our farmer thinks everything is okay. The bills are paid, he has a little cash in his pocket, and everything is fine. Of course, you know better. The farm simply does not exist any more; it's just an empty lot with a few buildings, and soon they will be gone as well. The path from the farmer's present condition to seizure of the property for unpaid taxes is a foregone conclusion, even if the farmer doesn't look far enough ahead to see it. Poor, dumb, stupid farmer. That farmer is our government, and our business leaders. Just as our hypothetical farm has lost its soil, livestock, seed, and farm equipment, America has lost its manufacturing ability. Short sighted business leaders, with as little interest in manufacturing as our farmer had in farming, decided their own personal bonuses would be higher if they simply sold their factories rather that ran them. After WW2, the 27 American TV companies including Zenith, Emerson, RCA, GE, etc. led the world in TV technology. Then, the owners of the patents on TV technology decided they didn't need to dirty their hands by actually making the TV sets themselves any more, and they started selling licenses to manufacture, which the Japanese bought. By 1987, the only remaining American TV company is Zenith. The patent holders get their money, but the American products which can be sold overseas are gone, along with the jobs to make them. The same happened in high-tech electronics. The integrated circuit was invented in the United States. But rather than focus on selling integrated circuits, the companies that owned that technology sold the machines to MAKE integrated circuits around the world, and now America sells very few chips anywhere. The patent holders have their money, but the cash flow from sales of manufactured goods, and the jobs that go with them, are gone. When Seymour Cray needed custom chips for his supercomputers, he had to order them from Japan. The same thing has been happening in aviation. The airplane was invented in the United States, and through the 60s, we sold a lot of them around the world. But lately, all aircraft sales to foreign countries involve "offsets", a portion of the core technology that gets licensed to the purchasing nation and gets manufactured there. Bit by bit, the core technology gets bled off, taking with it jobs, and cash flow from the sale of those manufactured products. Along the way, the rights to manufacture American inventions outside America leak away on a steadily increasing basis. Even the mighty F-16 is now being manufactured overseas, under license. To cover the loss of manufacturing jobs, our government has invented the catch phrase "service economy". This is the idiotic notion that we don't need to actually sell manufactured products; that we can grow and prosper our nation by doing each other's laundry. To conceal the loss of manufacturing jobs, the government has legislated into existence thousands upon thousands of useless paper-shuffling jobs, and declared their necessity by fiat. The most obvious is the income tax which has been so obfuscated by the government that half of you had to rely on an outside expert to figure out just what all those incomprehensible words really meant. By this device, the government has replaced those jobs that made products to sell with an equal number of jobs that produce nothing whatsoever of any worth, except to keep the unemployment figures down. This over-burdening of the American people with gratuitous regulations and paperwork has accomplished nothing except to obfuscate the loss of manufacturing jobs, and to transform the American character from innovators and inventors creating new products to that of minor clerks, peeking under each other's seat cushions for lost change. So, with most of our manufacturing now gone, just what DOES America make? Trouble, mostly. With 4% of the world's population and 18% of the economy, we have 50% of all the lawyers, all looking to make a killing by looting those few industries that still call America home (like Microsoft). Kids don't want to be scientists and engineers; they've seen how little such people are valued in our country. Based on recent history, kids see the "big bucks" are in corporate law, specifically investment banking, leveraged buyouts, greenmail, junk bonds, in short what other countries describe as "trying to make money grow by shaking it side to side". With America's ability to actually produce products that can compete on the open world market in decline, it's no wonder that the balance of trade is the problem it is. Nobody buys our export products because we just don't make that many any more, and like or not, we have to buy our appliances from the people who make them, which are NOT Americans. (When Ampex invented the VCR, they didn't even bother trying to find an American company to make it, they immediately sold the rights to Japan). So, what do all these countries on the plus side of the trade imbalance do with their surplus billions? Well, they have been loaning it right back to us! Our government engages in a practice politely called "deficit spending". Other terms which would aptly describe the practice include "counterfeiting" and "check kiting", but it all comes down to the same thing; spending money one does not actually have. What would be a jailable offense for a normal citizen was rendered legal for the government by the Federal Reserve Act. This was not a popular piece of legislation. In fact the Democrats had campaigned in 1912 on a platform of rejection of the creation of a private bank in charge of a fiat money system. Nevertheless, on December 23, 1913, taking advantage of the absence of congressmen opposed to the creation of a fiat monetary system during the Christmas break, the Federal Reserve Act was passed. Years later, during the great depression, Congressman Louis T. McFadden (who served twelve years as Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency) asked for congressional investigations of criminal conspiracy to establish the privately owned 'Federal Reserve System'. He requested impeachment of Federal officers who had violated oaths of office both in establishing and directing the Federal Reserve -- imploring Congress to investigate an incredible scope of overt criminal acts by the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Banks. McFadden even suggested that the Federal Reserve deliberately triggered the great stock market crash of 1929, in order to eventually force the passage of the Emergency Banking Act of March 9, 1933, which suspended the gold standard. In describing the FED, McFadden remarked in the Congressional Record, House pages 1295 and 1296 on June 10, 1932: "Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government Board, has cheated the Government of the United States and he people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the misadministration of that law by which the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it".
Why all the fuss over the gold standard? Well it goes back to the original Founding Fathers and the meaning of the word "dollar". "Dollar" is actually a weight measure of silver, 371.25 grains, to be exact. Our American silver dollars are actually heavier, since other metals were added for durability. But that 371.25 grains of silver WAS the dollar, matching in weight an unbroken chain of accepted monetary units that reached back through the Spanish Milled Dollar, the Dutch Daller, back to the German Thaler; the product of a silver mine which sold it's product in coins of an exact weight. The Coinage Act of 1792 defined our dollar to exactly match in weight the silver dollars in use around the world, and then defined the gold dollar to be that amount of gold which would equal the worth of silver in a silver dollar, 24.75 grains, 1/15 the weight of the silver in a silver dollar. So, what's wrong with this? Nothing really. When you, as a citizen, hold a silver dollar or a gold dollar in our hand, you hold that actual worth of metal. Nothing the government can do can change the worth of the money in your control.
Take the Roman Silver Denarius pictured above. The Roman Empire is long gone, but the money that Rome issued still has worth because the coins themselves had inherent worth. Long after the collapse of the empire, Roman silver coins were still used as money, because the silver in the coin itself did not depend on the issuing government for its worth. Of course, carrying around too much coin can be bothersome, so many nation, including our own, issued paper notes as a convenience. But that paper currency of the nation was just a convenience. The gold and silver certificates were merely "claim checks" for the equivalent weight of gold or silver held in the treasury, and which would be produced on demand when the certificate was presented. But in the end, the lawful dollar of the United States was 371.25 in silver, or 24.75 grains of gold. The problem with this system from the point of view of the government or the banks is that it limits the amount of money they can work with. When the bank runs out of silver or gold (or the equivalent certificates) it can no longer lend any more money with which to earn interest. When the government runs out of gold or silver (or the equivalent certificates) it can no longer spend money (just like the rest of us). The immediate effect of ending the gold standard was that with the paper dollar no longer legally dependent on 371.25 in silver or 24.75 grains of gold, more paper dollars (now called "Federal Reserve Notes") could be printed, their worth no longer under the control of the citizens but under the control of the issuing central bank, based on the total number of dollars printed (or created as credit lines). The more dollars which are created out of thin air, the less each one is worth.
A federal Reserve Note. The swindle of the system is simple. The Federal Reserve Bank hires the US Treasury to print up some money. The Federal Reserve only actually pays the treasury for the cost of the printing, they do NOT pay $1 for each 1$ printed. But the Federal Reserve turns around and loans out that money (or credit line) to banks at full face value, those banks which have exhausted their deposits then loan that Federal Reserve fiat money to you, and you must repay it in the full dollar value (plus interest) in work product, even though the Federal Reserve printed that money for pennies, or created it out of thin air in a computer. As the Federal Reserve overprints more money, the money supply inflates, and too much money starts chasing too few goods and services, which means prices go up. But contrary to the charade put on by the Federal Reserve, inflation doesn't just come and go due to some arcane sorcery. The Federal Reserve can halt inflation any time it wants to by simply shutting down those printing presses. It therefore follows that both inflation and recession are fully under the control of the Federal Reserve. Over time, that excess of printing has destroyed the value of that dollar you think you have. If you want to know by just how much, go out and try to purchase 371.25 grains of silver right now. Usually, the deterioration is gradual. Sometimes, it has to be obvious, such as the 1985 devaluation (done to halt the trade imbalance) which triggered the Japanese real-estate grab in this country. Many politicians have attempted to reverse this process. John F. Kennedy issued an Executive Order 11110, requiring the Treasury Department to start printing and issuing silver certificates for the silver then remaining in the US Treasury. Kennedy decided that by returning to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. This was the reason he signed Executive Order 11110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System.
John F. Kennedy's United States Note. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency. Kennedy's comptroller of the currency, James J. Saxon, had been at odds with the powerful Federal Reserve Board for some time, encouraging broader investment and lending powers for banks that were not part of the Federal Reserve system. Saxon also had decided that non-Reserve banks could underwrite state and local general obligation bonds, again weakening the dominant Federal Reserve banks". Kennedy's E.O. was never implemented following his assassination, and shortly afterwards, United States silver coins were taken out of circulation and replaced with the copper clad slugs in use today. These two events, the failure to print new silver certificates, and the substitution of worthless slugs for our silver coins, may explain why the Warren Commission included on its panel John J. McCloy, a man with no experience in crime, law enforcement, or national security, but who had been the President of the Chase Manhattan Bank. It should be noted that the banks themselves are still using the gold standard. Accounts are still settled between major national banks by the transfer of gold bullion. So here we are with a bank that legally counterfeits the money you borrow but expects a full value (plus interest) repayment. But what's good for the Federal Reserve is good for the government itself, and this is where we get back into that funny word "deficit spending". The government spends more money than it takes in. It has for many years now. The Federal Reserve, being the only lawful source of this fiat money, prints up the excess cash the government needs (or manufactures a credit line in a computer). This extra cash is treated as a loan, in order to keep the government overspending from further eroding the worth of the dollar in the world market. The government (meaning the taxpayers) is on the hook for the full face value, plus interest. But there's another problem. The government is borrowing so much money that it drives the interest rates up! You pay MORE interest on your mortgage, car loan, and credit cards, because the government cannot balance its books. That extra interest you pay is therefore another hidden tax. The government, in its "generosity", gives you a tax credit on mortgage interest that is higher because of their own borrowing! During the 80s, as exports dropped, and jobs moved from manufacturing to lower paying "service sector" jobs, the US tax base declined. In order to keep the jobless rate from rising, a massive defense program called the Strategic Defense Initiative was cranked up, but since this program produced no exportable product, it produced no taxable sales revenues, and hence the money poured into the project accelerated the government decline into debt. Because manufacturing was on the decline, fewer start-up companies were approaching the lending institutions, so the government loosened up the rules (while increasing the insurable deposit limit) to allow "investments" in more high risk ventures, most of which turned out to be frauds, or worse, money laundering operations for drug criminals. This includes Whitewater, Flowerwood, and Castle Grande. Despite shifting the S&L loss primarily onto the taxpayers (to reassure foreign investors that the taxpayers still made America a safe place to park their surplus cash) the government plunged further into debt. In the 12 years of the Reagan/Bush administrations, the United States went from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor. Many of those nations which had enjoyed huge trade surpluses started loaning that profit back to the United States with the stipulation that we work on our manufacturing, clean up our infrastructure, raise taxes, in short, clean up our act, so that investment in America makes sense! However, we didn't quite do that. There has been some shuffling around to try to conceal the real scope of the problem. Over the last several years, the Federal Government has been sending less tax money back to the states than it takes in in taxes. This means that the states have to borrow MORE money to cover their obligations. The net result is that the debt is being transferred to the states, to conceal its true size. The government will easily admit to a $3 trillion "publicly held" debt, grudgingly concede that it's "unfunded liability" brings that number to almost $7 trillion, but the real hard truth is that total government debt, state and federal, is now over $14 trillion dollars, or about 50,000 for every man, woman, and child inside the United States. Since 1960, the taxpayers have shelled out $15 trillion in interest payments alone, while the principal continues to rise. Yet another stunt the government has pulled is to "borrow" from the various trust funds under its control. Some $2 billion has vanished from the trust accounts of Native Americans (presently suing the Departments of the Interior and Treasury), and nearly ¾ of a TRILLION dollars has been removed from your Social Security retirement trust fund and spent in the last 8 years.
If the government has to borrow your retirement money when things are supposed to be so good, under what conditions can it repay the money? Or is that government IOU in your retirement account merely a promise to either tax you a second time or stiff you on the benefits you thought you were paying for?
In the last 8 years, during what are supposed to be record setting good times, the Federal government has nearly DOUBLED its debt load. The estimated interest on the debt equals all the personal income tax paid by all Americans. Our government is so deep in debt that it cannot get out.
This brings us to the issue of collateral. We've borrowed so much money the lenders are getting nervous. Back during the Johnson administration Charles DeGaulle demanded the United States collateralize the loans owed to France in gold and started carting out the bullion from the treasury. This caused several other nations to demand the same and President Nixon had to slam the gold window closed or the treasury would have been emptied, since the United States was even then in debt for more money than the treasury could cover in gold. But Nixon had to collateralize that debt somehow, and he hit upon the plan of quietly setting aside huge tracts of American land with their mineral rights in reserve to cover the outstanding debts. But since the American people were already angered over the war in Vietnam, Nixon couldn't very well admit that he was apportioning off chunks of the United States to the holders of foreign debt. So, Nixon invented the Environmental Protection Agency and passed draconian environmental laws which served to grab land with vast natural resources away from the owners and lock it away, and even more, prove to the holders of the foreign debt that US citizens were not drilling. mining, or otherwise developing those resources. From that day to this, as the government sinks deeper into debt, the government grabs more and more land, declares it a wilderness or "roadless area" or "heritage river" or "wetlands" or any one of over a dozen other such obfuscated labels, but in the end the result is the same. We The People may not use the land, in many cases are not even allowed to enter the land. This is not about conservation, it is about collateral. YOUR land is being stolen by the government and used to secure loans the government really had no business taking out in the first place. Given that the government cannot get out of debt, and is collateralizing more and more land to avoid foreclosure, the day is not long off when the people of the United States will one day wake up and discover they are no longer citizens, but tenants. The following map shows the current extent of all lands grabbed by the government under the guise of environmentalism.

In short, the United States is in deep trouble. We have lost a huge amount of our manufacturing capacity, and those products we still make do not compete well on the world market, despite the steady devaluation of the dollar. In short we have vast debts to pay and little to pay them with. Like the foolish Farmer we have sold the machinery that allowed us to prosper, and we stand around shaking our investment portfolios back and forth in the hopes that the money inside will somehow grow all by itself. It won't. It never has. The very best that can be said is that money gets moved from one person to the other. Those nations and banks to whom we owe money have been very patient indeed with us. They know that our economies are so tightly entwined that what hurts America will hurt them. But sooner or later, possibly after a market crash, someone, in order to pay their own debts, will demand their loans to the United States be paid. Rather than get caught with "bad paper", there will be a run on the United States government. In addition to the government debt of $14 trillion, our businesses are home to trillions more in foreign investment, kept here by the promise that the American taxpayer will be made to cover all losses. But with our manufacturing in decline and our schools producing far more lawyers than anything else, it should be obvious to the prudent observer that the American taxpayer, even if so inclined, may not be able to cover the losses of their own government, let alone a foreign investor. That has to be making them nervous as well. This brings us to the "equities markets", most notably the stock market. Over the last several years a constant media harangue has assured us that the soaring numbers of the stock market are the sole measure of how good our economy is. But close examination of those high-priced stocks reveals that most are heavily over-valued; their price the result of market forces rather than underlying worth (earnings ability). Amazon.com, as one example, has had a terrific run-up of its stock price, even though the company itself has yet to show a profit. The government has admitted to using covert means to prevent a market downturn; to keep the stock prices at an artificially high and overvalued level, in order to wave those impressive numbers about as "proof" that everything is okay so that the taxpayers go back to work and pay more taxes. But in order to keep those stock prices up above their actual worth, demand must be maintained to keep the prices high. In other words, NEW investors must constantly be brought into the bottom of the pyramid to keep the prices of the stocks at the top from dropping. Hence the onslaught of commercials luring neophyte investors into the stock market via "online trading". Like any Ponzi scheme, the stock market will collapse when no more new buyers can be dragged in at the bottom. As the market starts to stutter, governments (most recently Britain) have moved to dump huge reserves of gold onto the world market to depress gold prices and deter investors from deserting the stock market for gold. Some years back I worked on the film version of "The Day The Bubble Burst", and in between playing a stock broker, I got to spend some time with the show's consultant, Mr. William Hupt, who had been on the trading floor in 1929 as it all fell apart. He still had, framed, that last strip of ticker tape that ushered in the Great Depression, and he shared some stories which have a bearing on what is going on today. The first story Bill shared is that there had been early indications of a dangerously over-valued market, running to deep on margin, and like the Plunge Protection Team, the largest investment houses, in particular the House of Morgan, attempted to reverse the early corrections by purchasing large blocks of stock in order to create market demand and drive the prices back up. It worked all but the last time. The second story Bill shared was that a friend of his, riding up to his office in September of 1929, overheard the elevator operator chatting about his own stock portfolio, and his investments. Something about that image of an elevator operator playing the market set off warning signals, and Bill's friend immediately liquidated his entire portfolio, just in time to miss the great crash. Many people, including the actor Charlie Chaplin, had recognized the "recruitment" of that segment of society that did NOT have risk capital as new investors as a desperate attempt to prop up an overvalued market, and got out in time to save their own personal fortunes. In the end, there is no such thing as a free lunch. You cannot make money grow in value by shaking it back and forth from one bank to another. You cannot prosper a nation by doing each other's laundry, or filling out their government mandated and greatly obfuscated paperwork, or flinging stock certificates around which may have as little real worth as Federal Reserve Notes. To make money, to show a profit, you must make products that somebody else wants to buy, and sadly, that is a capability the United States has allowed to slip away in great measure. The "service economy" was political propaganda to make the public believe that the decline of our manufacturing ability was a good thing. Our nation is broke, bankrupt, and having sold much of its machinery and technology (or given it away to political donors), is unable to easily return to those endeavors which once made our nation great. Our infrastructure is in decay (the percentage of roads in the US with major damage doubled last year alone), our public schools unable to produce a workforce able to function in a high-tech manufacturing environment, and those managers end engineers with manufacturing experience have in great part been lured away to other nations. The severity of our total government debt has reached a point where the promise that the taxpayers can be made to cover any foreign investment loss rings hollow, because we can no longer pay the debts our government has now. Our nation is in trouble. We don't make many of the products we used to make. Consequently we don't have the products to sell that we used to. We don't even make most of the products we need ourselves (like that computer you're staring at this very moment). Result: we have a massive trade imbalance. Cash is flowing out of the nation, and it's not coming back in anywhere near as fast. There's no way to spin it; that is a major problem. Our nation is becoming poorer, it is hopelessly in debt, and all the artificial escalation of stock prices cannot conceal that. And as the artificially pumped up stock market continues to decline, the true scale of the economic horror which is the product of decades of government corruption, will become apparent to all. At that point you the average American citizen could become the terrorist's and your activities will need to be tagged and tracked with your new micro chipped ID card. This assures your obedience to an out of control taxation policy and possibly even discourage citizens against any type of organized rebellion to enforce the US Constitution.
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
this sums it up Very nicely imo.


It's a slow day in a little East Texas town.. The sun is beating down, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.. On this particular day a rich tourist from back east is driving through town.

He stops at the motel and lays a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

As soon as the man walks upstairs, the owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her "services" on credit.

The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner.

The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the $100 bill, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything.. No one earned anything.

However, the whole town is now out of debt and now looks to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is conducting business today.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
yeah, we should all hoard everything from others and flee the states if we can..... :roll:



Or we can take back our government by force as it no longer serves our best interests.
 

420God

Well-Known Member
My family lived on this land long before "money" existed here, along with oil and guns.

I'll be fine.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Yeah, look what capitalism has done in the last century. Rich families continue to amass the wealth, the majority of it, while they increasingly rely on labor. I'm not saying communism is a great model, but the only ones spouting off at the mouth about capitalism are the well to do... Capitalism does NOT work in the long run. As long as there is greed and envy, we'll always have social classes. Mark my words, there will come a time when a dollar won't buy you a cup of ice water. In fact, $10,000 won't buy you any relief. There is a reason there is a parable about a camel passing through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man entering the kingdom of heaven. What will he say when God asks why he died and left so much money behind when people are starving, or are scrapping by. If capitalism was always the answer to everything, why are we once against faced with a huge financial crisis? Many large corporations take advantage of tax loop holes and they do not pay their fair share of taxes. they also operate in foreign countries to avoid taxes, yet are American owned and based companies...

yeah, good ole' capitalism..... The answer to everything related to greed and envy... :roll:

so... many... words...

I've been preaching the good word for years.
its called capitalism.
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
I hope I am set not rich so would not do any good to leave MY COUNTRY. But for sure something is about to come to an end.
 

DrFever

New Member
My family lived on this land long before "money" existed here, along with oil and guns.

I'll be fine.
hey dont think the government cant take your land in reality you only own a foot of the land government can easily take it away from you give you a offer you say now then they just take it seen alot of people this happen 2

government wants your land they will take it plan and simple how can they simple they ree assess your property at lets say 500 billion dollars all of a sudden your property tax jumped to lets say 80 million guess what sucks huh they own your land :-P

2 things in this world DEATH N TAXES its most corrupt thing
 

420God

Well-Known Member
hey dont think the government cant take your land in reality you only own a foot of the land government can easily take it away from you give you a offer you say now then they just take it seen alot of people this happen 2

government wants your land they will take it plan and simple how can they simple they ree assess your property at lets say 500 billion dollars all of a sudden your property tax jumped to lets say 80 million guess what sucks huh they own your land :-P

2 things in this world DEATH N TAXES its most corrupt thing
I'd like to see them try and take a Natives land twice.

The country would be too far gone before the government gets that far.
 

DrFever

New Member
take they own the native land only given to you one thing usa does do is not fck around back to capitalism they take what they want and dude why is it not to many natives really try to start stuff up cause they know the national guard will come in a clean up end of story like back in the day when natives were in the indangered species list just like the american buffalo almost ran out so did the indian almost
but getting to the indian thats another BS topic there allowed to hunt fish with nets cross borders i see it all the time hey you want
buy cigerattes , fish meat that as a indian there suppose to hunt for them selfs but in essence its pouching

or how bout some more detail they hunte pregnant deer just to gut the unborn inside it to eat
dont tell me otherwise i see it on indian reserves any thing for a bottle hell i saw mooses head cut clean off nothing taken just because someone wanted the head on native land
 

420God

Well-Known Member
take they own the native land only given to you one thing usa does do is not fck around back to capitalism they take what they want and dude why is it not to many natives really try to start stuff up cause they know the national guard will come in a clean up end of story like back in the day when natives were in the indangered species list just like the american buffalo almost ran out so did the indian almost
but getting to the indian thats another BS topic there allowed to hunt fish with nets cross borders i see it all the time hey you want
buy cigerattes , fish meat that as a indian there suppose to hunt for them selfs but in essence its pouching

or how bout some more detail they hunte pregnant deer just to gut the unborn inside it to eat
dont tell me otherwise i see it on indian reserves any thing for a bottle hell i saw mooses head cut clean off nothing taken just because someone wanted the head on native land
You make it sound like the people of this country are willing to just roll over and let the Government do what it wants, kinda sad.

The majority of the people of this country are starting to really see the bigger picture, it's just a matter of time.
 

420God

Well-Known Member
take they own the native land only given to you one thing usa does do is not fck around back to capitalism they take what they want and dude why is it not to many natives really try to start stuff up cause they know the national guard will come in a clean up end of story like back in the day when natives were in the indangered species list just like the american buffalo almost ran out so did the indian almost
but getting to the indian thats another BS topic there allowed to hunt fish with nets cross borders i see it all the time hey you want
buy cigerattes , fish meat that as a indian there suppose to hunt for them selfs but in essence its pouching

or how bout some more detail they hunte pregnant deer just to gut the unborn inside it to eat
dont tell me otherwise i see it on indian reserves any thing for a bottle hell i saw mooses head cut clean off nothing taken just because someone wanted the head on native land
Oh, and I don't hunt, I farm.

I eat steak whenever I want.:mrgreen:
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Somehow TPTB have deluded so many that people actually think that someone who conserves resources for a rainy day is now a terrible and Evil HOARDER and not a conservationist.
 

DrFever

New Member
cool its just sad that its takin this long for the ppl of the united states to see whats really goin on how foreclosures and the state there in today i am concerned 20 years from now what usa will be at being most money is poured in from foriegn investors kinda looks like usa is selling out
doesnt matter who the president is usa is in serious trouble IMO there never to recover
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
Yeah, look what capitalism has done in the last century. Rich families continue to amass the wealth, the majority of it, while they increasingly rely on labor. I'm not saying communism is a great model, but the only ones spouting off at the mouth about capitalism are the well to do... Capitalism does NOT work in the long run. As long as there is greed and envy, we'll always have social classes. Mark my words, there will come a time when a dollar won't buy you a cup of ice water. In fact, $10,000 won't buy you any relief. There is a reason there is a parable about a camel passing through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man entering the kingdom of heaven. What will he say when God asks why he died and left so much money behind when people are starving, or are scrapping by. If capitalism was always the answer to everything, why are we once against faced with a huge financial crisis? Many large corporations take advantage of tax loop holes and they do not pay their fair share of taxes. they also operate in foreign countries to avoid taxes, yet are American owned and based companies...

yeah, good ole' capitalism..... The answer to everything related to greed and envy... :roll:
It’s like Neal Boortz likes to say: “Rich people get richer because they keep doing the things that make them rich. Poor people stay poor because they keep doing the things that make them poor.” No amount of government intervention is going to “give” everyone equal results. Government involvement and regulation played as much if not more of a role in the housing bubble and the subsequent financial collapse. The dollar isn’t loosing value because of capitalism it’s because of government. The government is the one printing money to buy its own debt.

We have the second highest corporate taxes in the world. I don’t blame international corporations for taking advantage of the tax code. I blame the politicians because they set the dam system up. There are better ways to tax that don’t require the government to track every dollar a person makes.

I don’t belong to a “class” of people. I fall into a certain income bracket but “class” has nothing to do with that. But capitalism doesn’t force a person to pass judgment on others, that’s human nature.
 

DrFever

New Member
also make one wonder if 911 wasnt a tactic amaseing how soon as 911 went down usa fell makes me wonder if there more forces at work
Did binladen take credit for this ????? usa took blame to him tho
as everyone knows bush administration and binladen were partners now theres a bounty on his head could it possibly be binladen has enough dirt to really bury USA's corrupt government ?????
but to take pressure off usa lets start a war on terrorism kinda sad really how can you fight a war on mosliem when its all over the world even drumsfeld said were fighting a war which we will never win unless its a world war
i look at this as lets put a scare on the people no different then comunism really if you got scared ppl they wont start stuff
 

mame

Well-Known Member
The U.S. isn't nearly as broke as the right would have you believe.

If the U.S. was in fact broke would we be able to borrow essentially unlimited amounts of money at nearly 0% interest rates?

Let me repeat, the U.S. is not broke. We are in debt, the country is running a deficit but we are not broke and in fact should have probably spent more to get out of this recession (and without all of those tax cuts, only ~100 billion of the 850 billion stimulus was infrastructure spending and it should have been most of the bill IMHO...700+bil).

Wait, "we should have spent MORE?@!"

Yes. according to the Kaynesian theory, detailed in this 1936 Book by an economist named Kaynes we should have spent our way out of the recession because in fact, it is governments "role". Kaynesian theory was used to forge the New Deal and was the dominating school of economic thought until the 70's (more on that in a moment). During the 50's and 60's the middle class was created due to the applied principles of Kaynes theories, including but not limited to:

Regulations on the banking industry (1932)
The New Deal
higher taxes on the rich.

This created the Great Compression; A time in the U.S.'s history of surprising economic equality(excluding Blacks and women I guess). The rich were rich but certainly not swimming in green and every American could work for a decent wage and own a home and a car.

The 1970's brought some new ideas - or old ones changed up a bit - in the Neoclassical economic model similer to the Classical model that had been used from the 1700's till the late 1930's and replaced by Kaynesianism.

But enough of all of this, the point is this:

Kaynesian depression economics strive to lower the unemployment rate while also striving to protect the average Joes standard of living. This means stimulus spending to stimulate demand, regulation to prevent another crysis and low interest rates from the FED.

The Neoclassical model works supply side economics. A policymaker following this model strives to decrease costs to allow for more to be employed. This is achieved through deregulation, tax breaks, tax cuts and pay cuts. An example of this, as contended by Neoclassical economists says that if the city could hire 100 workers for $30 an hour they could alternatively hire 300 workers for $10 an hour. BAM! lower unemployment!

Kaynesian economists countered said example by pointing out that the standard of living for those $10 an hour workers is much lower than the guy who would have made $30 an hour and they also pointed out that many skilled workers would go elsewhere looking for better pay.

We've seen the Neoclassical model as the predominant force in action for the last few decades. How has it performed?

“during the past 20 years, 56 percent of all income growth went to the top 1 percent of households. Even more unbelievably, a third of all income growth went to just the top one-tenth of 1 percent.” - Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.)

The income for us, the average joes, has barely kept up with inflation since 1982.

We are not broke, but the rich would like labor to be cheaper; And that's what it comes down to.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Moving forward.

Debt is the currency we all trade in.

All that is happening is after bailing out the rich, running up endless war debt, covering losses from banks, and lowering the corporate tax rates is that the lower economic boundaries are being expended.

We are creating more poverty to cover more debt.
So no way will anyone abandon the economic system.. What would they replace it with that can control people as good as our system of debt as currency?

Our "Mark of the Beast" credit rating system is the grand scale of economic Government.

Remember you can vote out your Law based Government but you will face homeliness when you go up against your Economic Government, the Plutocracy.
 
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