Hempstar 3 Stage LED Grow

[ledbudguy]

If 3w LED is better than 1w, can we assume 5w is better than 3w? Here's one panel with some claimed 5w: http://blackdogled.com/products.html Anybody see any grow journals with Blackdog LED's used?

From what I've been told by the ISIS guys they have a new fixture that they are developing that has 15w diodes, so I guess 3w is better than 1w and 5w is better than 3w and 15w is better than 5w, etc., etc.... From what I gather the LED business is about to take over the grow light marketplace and that is why you are seeing soooooooo many company reps in these forums trying to discredit each other. Bottom line is this; this technology is changing really effen fast right now, I'd compare it to the invention of the pentium processor... so you can expect new revisions and models popping out like madd over the next 12 - 24 months. There will be a bunch of low grade chinese knock offs flooding the market as in any emerging product and these forums will be inundated with scammers trying to sell us all cheap shit. Plain and simple, do some research, ask questions and most important watch what people who are actually using the product are reporting and make an educated decision based on results not bullshit and hype!

 

[medicine21]

I agree that the LED grow light market is filled with BS. However, there is compelling evidence, such as presented by yourself, ledbudguy, that the technology can work. So then what should we look for when choosing a light:

1. Higher Wattage for diodes. Today 3w+
2. More spectrums. Today 11 spectrums
3. Enough total wattage to cover your core area. This is the tough one, since manufacturer claims here vary significantly. Ex. ISIS FX-3 coverage is 100 sq feet. A 100, really? I wouldn't want to waste all that light outside my 4x8 area...
4. Lens angle. 60deg or 90deg??

The rule of thumb for HID lights is 50W/sq foot. Can we even come up with one for LED, since the wattage can be spread through a large surface area on the panel itself, where as HID has a concentrated source of power?

 

[ledbudguy]

I agree that the LED grow light market is filled with BS. However, there is compelling evidence, such as presented by yourself, ledbudguy, that the technology can work. So then what should we look for when choosing a light:

1. Higher Wattage for diodes. Today 3w+
2. More spectrums. Today 11 spectrums
3. Enough total wattage to cover your core area. This is the tough one, since manufacturer claims here vary significantly. Ex. ISIS FX-3 coverage is 100 sq feet. A 100, really? I wouldn't want to waste all that light outside my 4x8 area...
4. Lens angle. 60deg or 90deg??

The rule of thumb for HID lights is 50W/sq foot. Can we even come up with one for LED, since the wattage can be spread through a large surface area on the panel itself, where as HID has a concentrated source of power?

I agree that the coverage area is highly exaggrated by all of the manufacturers... in my instance, I would feel comfortable reporting that the ISIS-1 that I am using is good for 4-6 plants of average height. I'm pretty sure they have the spectrum figured out at this point in the game, although we can probably expect to see developments in the area of mold supression and insect repelling...

To answer the questions, I would say that...

1. Absolutely don't buy anything that doesnt have at least 3w diodes in the flowering spectrums
2. I think that the 11 spectrum is probably better than the 5 spectrum that I am running because I know for sure that the 5 spectrums produce wicked bud
3. You see here all the fixtures that the companies are selling are all based on the same configuration of diodes, the only thing that I can see that changes is the size of the case. I would'nt expect that FX3 to realistically cover more than 20 sq ft if you are growing weed. Bottom line, more wattage doesnt mean more coverage, coverage is determined by lens angle which takes us to the next question...
4. If you are growing lettuce I would go with 120 degree lenses, in our case marijuana I would stick to 60 - 80 degrees of lense angle. That said, I have figured out something cool with the interlacing of the spectrums of different angled diodes. The interlacing of certain spectrums appears to have a pretty amazing effect!!! I'm trying to put together some cash and maybe get one of these manufacturers to donate some gear for research so that I can set up what I believe will be the grow room of the future.

Like I said before, don't believe the hype until you see it first hand from many independent sources... Any dickhead out there can say he has the best grow light, and until it's proven it just bullshit!

 

[medicine21]

The interlacing of certain spectrums appears to have a pretty amazing effect!!! I'm trying to put together some cash and maybe get one of these manufacturers to donate some gear for research so that I can set up what I believe will be the grow room of the future.

Does your theory support the idea that covering a 4x8', for example, with 3x180W LED is better than 1x540 LED?

 

[ledbudguy]

Does your theory support the idea that covering a 4x8', for example, with 3x180W LED is better than 1x540 LED?

without a doubt! That said, obviously the less power of the diodes the less result you can expect but interlacing the spectrums has a massive effect on the outcome! I am going to venture to guess that based on what I have stumbled upon that there is going to be a formula that is going to come out of all of this that will allow you to calculate based on total area how many different sized fixtures with varying lens angles that you will need to create the perfect growing environment both light wise and temperature wise. I highly doubt that there will be need for more that 2 different configurations of panels, one as the main source of lighting and a secondary source for interlacing

I am going to set up a new room hopefully by the end of march where I am going to prove this theory!

 

[tony1960]

I'm also a user of LED's from start to finish. For the flowering phase it is very important to have enough "deep red" or "infrared" in order to convert the flowering hormone from inactive to active. Also, I recommend LED farmers use a good light mover, slow model, so that fewer of the expensive units are necessary.
Good luck!!

 

[medicine21]

without a doubt! That said, obviously the less power of the diodes the less result you can expect but interlacing the spectrums has a massive effect on the outcome! I am going to venture to guess that based on what I have stumbled upon that there is going to be a formula that is going to come out of all of this that will allow you to calculate based on total area how many different sized fixtures with varying lens angles that you will need to create the perfect growing environment both light wise and temperature wise. I highly doubt that there will be need for more that 2 different configurations of panels, one as the main source of lighting and a secondary source for interlacing

I am going to set up a new room hopefully by the end of march where I am going to prove this theory!

that's very interesting! I'll look for that grow journal.

What do you mean by: "temperature wise"? How much heat do these lights really give off compared to HID, for example?

 

[mad dog bark]

cheers for call out rasputing. excuse my poor editing and grammer. this is all new to me i normally lurk in the dark in forums and try pick up tips. but alot you guys seem know ya stuff and have prior grows under belts. yeah led bud guy i saw ya journel was intersting fella. I think infact that how i found this grow from dunit. cheers medicine top info. oh and will keep an eye out for led bud guy next grow. laters all.

 

[dunit]

Wow! Lots of chat in the last day while I was busy. LedBudGuy thanks for jumping in. In terms of my opinion I won't bother to write a ton because LBG pretty much nailed it. 3W are totally needed. 1W panels just don't get the penetration. Even 2W aren't as good. I think that the ONLY limit on LED's in the past has been that the wattage on the individual diodes is just not enough to penetrate. I'm sure we will see bigger and better things in the very near future but for now 3W are king of the hill.

Far red and IR play an important role, as does UV and IR. From my research I would say that 7 spectrums is the minimum and with the spectrum shift under even mild temp increases that you need to "shoulder" the Chlorophyll A & B peak spectrums which puts you at 11. Just my opinion.

Anyway, back on the farm.....in two days the bud production has just exploded. Started running liquid cool bloom so maybe that helped.

Feast your eyes

 

[mad dog bark]

wow yeah them mags look amazing. plants stunning. looks like alot of bud sites there. sorry to push but wot lense the mag use.? i have sent few e mails to the company but still waiting on reply. how far along are the girls? I know its early days but from wot you see now wot are your expectations on final yield? another question for you from wot you see now is how many large plants could a single mag handle and flower well.

 

[dunit]

The 357 Magum uses 60 degree lenses. That was why I went with it. I think that the other big confusion (other than wattage) with LED's is lens angle. A 90 degree lens will provide 43% less intensity than a 60 degree lens. That's basically Kessils claim to fame.

The sharper the lens angle the more intense the light but the smaller the coverage area which is why Kessil only covers such a small area. I'm guessing that there are other panels in the 357 class that will cover a larger area but the intensity just wont be there to penetrate bigger plants.

I'm limited by plant numbers so I'm looking for penetration.

In terms of yeild....I'd like to hit a pound and right now it looks doable. On 360 watts total actual draw would be impressive so we'll see how I do. I hate estimating and as though some well established and sponsored growers like Irishboy got just over that using twice the power and a $2000 light I'm probably frickin dreaming .....but what the hell......aim high

 

[dunit]

wow yeah them mags look amazing. plants stunning. looks like alot of bud sites there. sorry to push but wot lense the mag use.? i have sent few e mails to the company but still waiting on reply. how far along are the girls? I know its early days but from wot you see now wot are your expectations on final yield? another question for you from wot you see now is how many large plants could a single mag handle and flower well.

Today was day 25 of flower.

How big a plant are we talking?

To answer another question you had directed at LedBudGuy....when he was talking ideal temperature, I firmly believe that a huge part of his success what that his confined space kept the room temp up. I think he was running 83-85F. A lot of exclusive LED grows (unless they are in warm climates) have trouble maintaining adequate temperature for rapid plant growth and that needs to be addressed to get decent numbers.

 

[medicine21]

In terms of yeild....I'd like to hit a pound and right now it looks doable. On 360 watts total actual draw would be impressive so we'll see how I do. I hate estimating and as though some well established and sponsored growers like Irishboy got just over that using twice the power and a $2000 light I'm probably frickin dreaming .....but what the hell......aim high

I think you can hit 1-1.5lb or I would hope. You have a 4x4' area covered with 2x357Mag right? If Mag claims are correct and 2x357Mag > 1000W, and I've seen 1.5-2lb come from a 4x4 under 1000W doing SOG, flood and drain with a 10 day veg period, I hope you can get close to that.

 

[dunit]

I think you can hit 1-1.5lb or I would hope. You have a 4x4' area covered with 2x357Mag right? If Mag claims are correct and 2x357Mag > 1000W, and I've seen 1.5-2lb come from a 4x4 under 1000W doing SOG, flood and drain with a 10 day veg period, I hope you can get close to that.

Yeah I'd like to think I can hit those numbers but quite honestly I don't look at manufacturers claims so much as what other people have done with similar set ups and try to keep it as realistic as possible. This has been a learning process and one of the things I've realized is that you need to look at the ACTUAL draw of your panel and be realistic. I've got lots of learning to do and when I cut down this time and see what the bud density and maturity is like to the bottom of the plants it will give me an idea of what to try next time and keep improving.

So for now I'm leaving the manufacturers claims out of it and just see who's actually putting up numbers so try to set myself a goal. Irish boy and Setting Sun are the long time guru's at LED and they've never hit 1gram per watt (I don't think) but come close.

If you look at all the grow journal, LedBudGuy with his ISIS panels is the highest I have found. His panels are 170's but the actually draw 120 watts so if you calculate his actual draw of 5 panels its 600watts and his yield was 762 grams so almost 1.3 grams per watt.

Using that as a benchmark, my panels draw 180 each so 360 for the pair I would pull pretty much bang on a pound if I hit his numbers. He has set the bar and that's what I am trying for right now....so wish me luck

 

[mad dog bark]

how do. I think wot i was getting at dunit was if you had 3 4 foot monsters growing wood the light hit the bottom bud. but reading on its a premature question as early days with your lights and early flowring stage for your girls. guessing maybe 5 wat leds min for big plants but then if you get good results mayb 3w enough. doesnt the isis have mxied 3 and 1 w leds? doe you use carbon dioxide during both veg and flower? does it make a large difference on final yield and quality? if you use in a sealed area without running a carb filter how else or wot else could you use to get rid of smells? thank you on the led angle. couldnt find that info anywhere. oh yeah and on one your resent pics it looks like one ya girls got 3 big colas or heads. is that a trick off the eye and it 3 plants in a row or you done some topping or wotever the term is. still they look good fella good work. bet your glad with how healthy they are.

 

[dunit]

So day 26 of flower. Quick pics before I go shovel more snow.

 

[dunit]

how do. I think wot i was getting at dunit was if you had 3 4 foot monsters growing wood the light hit the bottom bud. but reading on its a premature question as early days with your lights and early flowring stage for your girls. guessing maybe 5 wat leds min for big plants but then if you get good results mayb 3w enough. doesnt the isis have mxied 3 and 1 w leds? doe you use carbon dioxide during both veg and flower? does it make a large difference on final yield and quality? if you use in a sealed area without running a carb filter how else or wot else could you use to get rid of smells? thank you on the led angle. couldnt find that info anywhere. oh yeah and on one your resent pics it looks like one ya girls got 3 big colas or heads. is that a trick off the eye and it 3 plants in a row or you done some topping or wotever the term is. still they look good fella good work. bet your glad with how healthy they are.

I didn't top or FIM or do any pruning. Some of the plants look like they have multiple top colas but thats just lower branching that grew up close to the height of the top. Thats just how they grew. As far as 3 of 4 ft monsters, I don't know. These ladies are gonna top out around 2 ft unfortunately as I was hoping for a taller plant but they hardly stretched in flower. I've got Purple Kush vegging under an ISIS for the next round and I'm gonna run them taller I think. Will see how hard the lower buds on these plants are and make a judgement call then.

 

[mad dog bark]

so wot you thinking next round another week or two in veg for increase in height?or do you think its more to do with that strain and how it grows?

 

[dunit]

so wot you thinking next round another week or two in veg for increase in height?or do you think its more to do with that strain and how it grows?

I ran this strain years ago and its just not a big plant unless you veg forever and even then it doesn't take off much in flower. It was good for tables. I used to run a strain (10 years ago) called Purple Death and it used to explode to about 3 times the size it was triggered at. I used to trigger it at 18" and end up with 4 1/2 foot plants.

I know the PK will double so will trigger at about 18".

I think in the end LED's require a different style of growing than HID and unless you are side lighting too you can't run monsters (4-6 ft) but hoping to dial it into where I can run 3 footers.

 

[mad dog bark]

wot you run to get rid of odours. or as all legit is odour not a worry? carbon filters the norm i no but with low heat with leds i can c carbon filters not the wisest of options. i think from last two sets of photos the bud sites swelling up nice and that is only few days apart. well that impression i got from the single head shots.