i ride the seadoo for an hour and then lay in bed for 3 days.
can't really do that working, can i?
it's a "seadoo". not a jetski. i sit down on it and putt around all day. "disabled" doesn't mean crippled.
How Rich Are You?
- Thread starter medicineman
- Start date
i ride the seadoo for an hour and then lay in bed for 3 days.
can't really do that working, can i?
it's a "seadoo". not a jetski. i sit down on it and putt around all day. "disabled" doesn't mean crippled.
jeff f
New Member
just razzin ya. there are lots of disabilities other than being crippled. for instance, some of us are "mentaly" disabled.i ride the seadoo for an hour and then lay in bed for 3 days.
can't really do that working, can i?
it's a "seadoo". not a jetski. i sit down on it and putt around all day. "disabled" doesn't mean crippled.
jeff f
New Member
btw its guys like you who are responsible for this arctic freeze we are having on the eastern side of the mississippi!!!i ride the seadoo for an hour and then lay in bed for 3 days.
can't really do that working, can i?
it's a "seadoo". not a jetski. i sit down on it and putt around all day. "disabled" doesn't mean crippled.
i burn 16 gallons of high octane mixed with 2 stroke oil every 3 to 4 hours on the water. i love the smell.
if you're ever in sonoma county come on out for a boat ride.
medicineman
New Member
Well, Maybe I can't prove it, but the chances of the "rich" harming people, commiting theft, or acquiring their wealth through fraud or violence, May be pretty good: example; letting safety equipment be broken or not available at their place of business, stealing intellectual property from their competitors, Cheatimg on their taxes, (fraud), And as for violence, those that got rich as war contractors, well you do the connection. I'm pretty sure getting rich is a pretty dirty business, ruthless, heartless and crooked as hell.
It's a whole different thing to have a mob of people physically confront your person to loot your pockets, now isin't it? BTW, good to hear from you again, been a while.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
^^^ Med, a person commits "fraud" when they seek to deceive somebody they made a voluntary agreement with. In other words an entity (like government) cannot declare a commitment for you and then when you fail to comply declare that YOU have committed fraud. For fraud NOT to exist, the original agreement had to be absent coercion and voluntarily entered into by BOTH parties.
If I or another party could make a "contract" committing you to something you never agreed to and then penalize you for your "fraud",
THAT act, committing you without your consent, THAT is fraud.
In other words, one definition of a real "fraud" is trying to collect something from someone, when that someone never agreed to the terms of the agreement or are powerless to resist an "agreement." Logically if you or I can commit fraud by trying to collect on a debt that the other party never agreed to...government can to. The meanings of words don't change when we replace "you" or "I" with government do they?
If I or another party could make a "contract" committing you to something you never agreed to and then penalize you for your "fraud",
THAT act, committing you without your consent, THAT is fraud.
In other words, one definition of a real "fraud" is trying to collect something from someone, when that someone never agreed to the terms of the agreement or are powerless to resist an "agreement." Logically if you or I can commit fraud by trying to collect on a debt that the other party never agreed to...government can to. The meanings of words don't change when we replace "you" or "I" with government do they?
medicineman
New Member
I suppose you could apply that logic to many circumstances involving government or any other situation if you had a mind to. You are basically saying that taxes are illegal, so the tax code does not apply to you. If I seem to remember, the 16th amendment was ratified by 42 states, well over the 3/4th of the states needed, hence it is legal, and does apply to you, no fraud involved. Pay up sucker.
The fraud I was talking about involves de-frauding the government of their rightly charged income. Also any claims of businesses to sell their products that are untrue, as in medicines that do not work or do more harm than good, Products that the proprietors knew were faulty or undervalued, but pushed them off on unsuspecting customers anyway.
Now tell me that doesn't happen. Of all the righties on here, I respect you more than most. You are reasonable and structured in your arguements. You actually have the ability to see the other side of the arguement, maybe not so clearly, but at least you aknowledge it.
Also, no-one I know of actually likes to pay taxes Including me. I do realize government is way oversized, and cleartly think they have a mandate to control us, as was profoundly expressed by the Bush regime. Obama has not rescinded any of the Bush crap, so I hold him in contempt as a user of previous legislation, expressly, chickening out on refutation.
I saw on TV today that the republican plan to cut spending includes cutting 1500 DEA agents, a bunch of FBI agents as well as many more washington insider jobs, Kudos, except, instead of creating jobs they are getting rid of some, which the aforementioned two agencies can go fuck themselves for all I care.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the kind words. I don't consider myself a "righty" though. I'm a voluntarist. Also I don't believe a majority can or should speak for EVERYBODY. If the use of force can be justified simply because a majority says it's okay, that argument could be used to justify gang rape where the rapists represent the majority and the rape victim the minority. All we should ever do is leave people alone if they are leaving us alone. It's really that simple. Arguments that attempt to justify initiating force are founded on an illogical premise, government force cannot and should not be excepted or accepted.
Regarding involuntary taxes, they exemplify government's hypocrisy. Consider reading some Lysander Spooner to get a clearer picture of my logic. I'd suggest no. 6 of his "no treason" essays.
Written over 100 years ago, but this abolitionists words still make sense today.
Here's the link...bout half way through he discusses taxes --- http://praxeology.net/LS-NT-0.htm
Also "getting rid of jobs" such as DEA, etc. is a good thing. At least two reasons, government jobs are paraistic and produce nothing, every time a government job is "created", the people that pay for that job in the private sector must all row a little harder. The other reason is fairly obvious, the DEA are essentially modern day slave catchers and in a free country they would not exist.
medicineman
New Member
All we should ever do is leave people alone if they are leaving us alone. It's really that simple. Arguments that attempt to justify initiating force are founded on an illogical premise, government force cannot and should not be excepted or accepted.
Your logic is way too general in this heavily populated country. The government absolutely needs to iniciate force in keeping volatile entities in check. Gangs in inner cities for example. In fact that may be one of the main function of government, keeping the lid on the crazies. As I've said, there are way too many rules on individuals and not enough on corporations. The problem with this country and reigning in rogue corporations, and their key management, whom I guess we'll disagree on their compensation packages, is the Multinational phenomenem. Large corporations no longer owe alliance to the USA, even though most of them got their start here. If the US government pisses them off, they just move their operations abroad to cheap labor, low taxes and No rules, like pollution rules. How the American work force is ever going to be rebuilt is beyond my understanding. With technical jobs being outsourced to India, Corporations moving manufacturing jobs to china and other cheap labor countries, bringing in engineers and other skilled people from foriegn countries to work for way less wages, how is a young American to catch a break. Americans pay high college costs, while a lot of foriegn countries pay for college. Unless the parents are well endowed financially, most High school grads may only be able to go to the 2 year Jr. colleges, which is not enough to place well in the work environment. We are fast becoming a 3rd world country. With the stagnate wages, loss of wages period, and no new jobs available because our government is under management by corporate America, this countries middle class is destined to the trash heap. I guess my neighborhood will continue to grow in foriegn residency as they are the only ones with capital. In America, foriegners are allowed to buy American property unabated. Try that in other foriegn countries, Mexico for example, has many restrictions on foriegn buyers, also as a sidenote, In mexico, if one is found there illegally, they go to prison, no mamby pamby immigration rules.
Your logic is way too general in this heavily populated country. The government absolutely needs to iniciate force in keeping volatile entities in check. Gangs in inner cities for example. In fact that may be one of the main function of government, keeping the lid on the crazies. As I've said, there are way too many rules on individuals and not enough on corporations. The problem with this country and reigning in rogue corporations, and their key management, whom I guess we'll disagree on their compensation packages, is the Multinational phenomenem. Large corporations no longer owe alliance to the USA, even though most of them got their start here. If the US government pisses them off, they just move their operations abroad to cheap labor, low taxes and No rules, like pollution rules. How the American work force is ever going to be rebuilt is beyond my understanding. With technical jobs being outsourced to India, Corporations moving manufacturing jobs to china and other cheap labor countries, bringing in engineers and other skilled people from foriegn countries to work for way less wages, how is a young American to catch a break. Americans pay high college costs, while a lot of foriegn countries pay for college. Unless the parents are well endowed financially, most High school grads may only be able to go to the 2 year Jr. colleges, which is not enough to place well in the work environment. We are fast becoming a 3rd world country. With the stagnate wages, loss of wages period, and no new jobs available because our government is under management by corporate America, this countries middle class is destined to the trash heap. I guess my neighborhood will continue to grow in foriegn residency as they are the only ones with capital. In America, foriegners are allowed to buy American property unabated. Try that in other foriegn countries, Mexico for example, has many restrictions on foriegn buyers, also as a sidenote, In mexico, if one is found there illegally, they go to prison, no mamby pamby immigration rules.
The USA is not densely populated. Governments main purpose is to uphold the rights of it's citizens, Protect its borders from invasion and enforce contracts. So your keeping a lid on crazies is not a fact, its another one of your opinions you bandy about AS fact. Do I Agree with your assertion of Corporations saying FU to the USA and heading to greener pastures? I sure do, the business climate here is harsh compared to China/Indonesia and their very lax rules and regulations and inexpensive labor. America cannot catch a break, and no good can come out of paying the bills with ever faster depreciating currency. IMO Most people don't need College, most can't tell you anything they really learned anyway. You can ace college just by memorizing shit, you might not understand it, but they only care if you are able to regurgitate the answers back. Its not worth going into 20 years of debt slavery just to get a worthless degree in a field you probably won't even work in IF you can even find a job after graduation. When they changed the bankruptcy laws back in 2005 you can no longer get your debt discharged. They will garnish your wages, your social security, tax returns, whatever it takes to get their money, and after all the collection agencies have their crack at you, you end up owing 50% more due to all the fees and interest. College Students are fucked if you ask me, unless you can pay out of pocket I would not attend.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
When I say "initiate force" I literally mean to be the first to do it. I disagree that it is a role of government to initiate force. Yes they CAN do it, but I disagree it is their intended role in a free society. If it is, then one must conclude as long as government is allowed to INITIATE force arbitrarily then freedom doesn't really exist in any society where government is present. Also to be clear, I think it is everyone's right to defend themself, their family etc. but nobody's right to offend or be the first to use force even if it's government.
Concerning your dislike of corporations, cool. Corporations are a construct of government, government is a corporation. Personally, I don't mind dealing with INDIVIDUALS rather than corporations, but I'm not in favor of more regulation, I'm in favor of less...much less.
Less regulation, means fewer barriers of entry into new business, more businesses competing for your dollar is a benefit to the consumer, me and you. More regulation will not mean more chances for the little guy, it will mean the big guys will WRITE the legislation and keep their competition from even STARTING a business in the first place or tie them up in so much redtape they won't have a chance.
Free markets mean innovation, lower prices and more jobs...trust me.
Also the worst "gangs" often operate under color of law, the guys with the sirens and badges.
SmokeyMcSmokester
Well-Known Member
well said....
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many of the people who demonize corporations actually vote with their dollar and choose to deal with local merchants whenever possible?
I don't hate corporations, but even I do that. Why support the big box stores when my dollars can support a local businessman who will keep the money local?
Sure I could save some money by shopping at Wal-Mart, but wanting to keep more of my own money would be GREEDY!
LOL!
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
oooh, ooh, ooh, back here! *raises hand*
sometimes it's tough to find building supplies anywhere but the home despot. but i assure you, as a good portland hippy, i stop at the rebuilding center for reclaimed lumber whenever possible.
sometimes, those big box stores are damn near inevitable it seems.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Good for you, Buck.
There are many people who are not that thoughtful in their purchases. They see no connection between their doing business with a corporation and their own disagreements with the actions and policies of that corporation.
If it is more convenient, or will save them a buck or two, they will do business with the Devil himself.
It's like what Morpheus told Neo, "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."
medicineman
New Member
I guess I should have said they should be keeping the lid on crazies, like they did in the 60s/70s and beyond. They used to have institutions where they kept the crazies and gave them lodging and mental help untill your God "Raygun" came to office, then they turned them all out on to the streets. I suppose trying to protect you from gangs is not part of the equation either. You know, a lot of things have changed since the constitution was signed, it looks good hanging on a wall, but very few of the premises are taken seriously nowadays. Basically it is the Bill of rights we must hold on to, the constitution as originally documented really has little to do with modern America, Yeah the amendments are very important, speech, guns, right of assembly, etc, must be followed, although the government led by right wing Neo-cons, IE Bush and company, have been busy trying to take those away. I know, I know, the left is after our guns, well they'll have to kick in my door to get them, I don't trust rich liberals with my rights either. I'd say we aren't that far apart on most things, unless you see me as some sponge on the government, (Spelled my) nickle, What I get from SS is a pittance and I payed into it for 50+ years, My pension is also a pittance, but every dollar helps. I worked my ass off, hard physical labor since I was a kid on a farm, 10 years old, and never had a kush office sit on my ass job. That's why I retired at 62, my body was worn out. But ramble on, I doubt we'll ever be exactly on the same page, but we're somewhere in the same book.
BTW I'm only smart at night, 6 years of night school to get 2 years of college, while working 2 jobs, yeah, I'm just some spoiled liberal filching off the government, NOT.
grow space
Well-Known Member
Lame thread!
medicineman
New Member
Could be a lame post, maybe? Maybe I should have called it: "How poor are you". Same thing either way. Actually, you just probably want to call the OP lame, well sorry ol chap, that may or may not be true. Cheers!