Hempstar 3 Stage LED Grow

dunit

dunit

Active Member
Devilspawn said:
Did u look at the Blackstar 3w leds that they put out for 2011? Looks like they may be competitive and cheaper that the 357. My 2 90W ufo are vegging the hell out of my grow but all these posts have me convinced they will not do it for flower. Looks like I will end of with 6 strong plants in this grow, maybe 7- 4 widows ( fem), 2 carmelicious( yet to be sexed) and one wild card- maybe- may not be big enough when I go to flower in a week or two. Need to get cracking on figuring it out and orderin the light-its only in a grow cab-planst may get to 3-4 feet in there 36 x 18- says can grow to 56" with my leds and cloner on shelf above
Click to expand...
Which Blackstar is that? Wish they had a website so a guy could actually check out their products. Tall plants in such a small area, make sure you get something with a flatter lens angle. I'd look for 60 degree if you could find it but definately no more than 90 to keep the footprint small and get wicked penetration.
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
Hey dunit, I got a question for you..

You say the unit has Bridgelux, and I see on their homepage that they say they're as good as Cree's, but a lot less than Cree's. Fair enough, but I'm kinda confused on something, and please don't take this a a bash, but.. Bridgelux, according to their website, only make blue and white.. unless I'm missing something. So how does the Magnum cover 11 wavelengths?

Their site has 3 pdf's.. and all 3 have the same wavelengths, so this is a sample..
http://www.bridgelux.com/products/ledchips.html


Code: 
Dominant Power Bin C Power Bin D Power Bin E

Wavelength (240 – 255 mW) (255 – 295 mW) (295 – 340 mW)

445 to 447.5nm BXCA4545445-Cy-z BXCA4545445-Dy-z BXCA4545445-Ey-z
447.5 to 450nm BXCA4545447-Cy-z BXCA4545447-Dy-z BXCA4545447-Ey-z
450 to 452.5nm BXCA4545450-Cy-z BXCA4545450-Dy-z BXCA4545450-Ey-z
452.5 to 455nm BXCA4545452-Cy-z BXCA4545452-Dy-z BXCA4545452-Ey-z
455 to 457.5nm BXCA4545455-Cy-z BXCA4545455-Dy-z BXCA4545455-Ey-z
457.5 to 460nm BXCA4545457-Cy-z BXCA4545457-Dy-z BXCA4545457-Ey-z
460 to 462.5nm BXCA4545460-Cy-z BXCA4545460-Dy-z BXCA4545460-Ey-z
462.5 to 465nm BXCA4545462-Cy-z BXCA4545462-Dy-z BXCA4545462-Ey-z
From that I see 445nm to a maximum of 465nm.


Their whites cover 3000K, 4100K, and 5600K
http://www.bridgelux.com/products/ledarray_sourceguide.html


And while doing a search, I came across something on candlepowerforums, where a guy was asking about 3-chip 3watt diodes from Bridgelux, used in some grow lights.. he was told those were counterfits from China. They also said Bridgelux only makes blue, green, and white.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=285317


So, I'm confused. Are they really Bridgelux, or are they cheap Chinese knock-offs? A quick google for "red bridgelux 3w", or just plain ol' "bridgelux 3 watt" pops up alibaba and other China importers.

Please tell me I'm just reading this wrong... :p
 
D

Devilspawn

Well-Known Member
http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/grow-lights/gotham-hydro-led-grow-lights/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html

Its a 240 W panel, ( Gen 7?) supposedly using 3W crees with mix of 60 and 120 degree for optimal penetration with 11 spectra but mostly the reds- I'm sure you can read their page. Says it will cover 4-6 sq ft and at $260 per looks a bit cheaper than the 357. May give it a shot and see what happens. Will probably keep UFos going too.

About to change the res out today. Flushing right now with reskleen Looks like I'm getting either Potasium def or nute burn with this trouble I have been having keeping pH down. Seeing tips browning on lower leaves and some spottting. I have been spraying with res water so that might have done it too. PPM is up to 1500 with all the damn pH down I have had to add with a little tap in the mix from my softener. Going to a 40ppm mix of DI and Poland Springs this am. Have it sitting and waiting to go at pH 5.8. Will add 400 pmm of the famous moon dust and 200 ppm of B-52 and see how they do. Have gotten some algea in tank and on starter plugs. Pulled all my non- starters and will cover up the unused pots with foil to block light in res- water isnt green though so I take that as a plus- just on sides on tank. Still on a 24 hr veg and my widows are thriving as are the two carms under the two 90w ufos.
 
D

Devilspawn

Well-Known Member
CAll me impatient- just ordered one and should be here in a day or two. Will keep track of your 357 grow and let you know how this goes as well. Can always try a 357 next grow if it doesnt work. Did track my latest seed order from Nirvana and they should be here today.....
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
Devilspawn said:
http://www.gothamhydroponics.com/grow-lights/gotham-hydro-led-grow-lights/blackstar-240w-led-grow-light-3w-cree.html

Its a 240 W panel, ( Gen 7?) supposedly using 3W crees with mix of 60 and 120 degree for optimal penetration with 11 spectra but mostly the reds- I'm sure you can read their page. Says it will cover 4-6 sq ft and at $260 per looks a bit cheaper than the 357. May give it a shot and see what happens. Will probably keep UFos going too.

About to change the res out today. Flushing right now with reskleen Looks like I'm getting either Potasium def or nute burn with this trouble I have been having keeping pH down. Seeing tips browning on lower leaves and some spottting. I have been spraying with res water so that might have done it too. PPM is up to 1500 with all the damn pH down I have had to add with a little tap in the mix from my softener. Going to a 40ppm mix of DI and Poland Springs this am. Have it sitting and waiting to go at pH 5.8. Will add 400 pmm of the famous moon dust and 200 ppm of B-52 and see how they do. Have gotten some algea in tank and on starter plugs. Pulled all my non- starters and will cover up the unused pots with foil to block light in res- water isnt green though so I take that as a plus- just on sides on tank. Still on a 24 hr veg and my widows are thriving as are the two carms under the two 90w ufos.
Click to expand...
Key word here is "supposedly"... IMHO... I personally think that these 357s will kick the fuck out of that blackstar shit. If the blackstar shills in this thread had any balls whatsoever they would send this dunit character one of these units to do a side by side. Surely a company of such prestige as blackstar can dish out a few hundred on what would prove to be the best / cheapest advertising buy ever! Don't hold your breath dunit...
 
rasputin71

rasputin71

Well-Known Member
I hope these 357 blow me away. A 600w hps ballast, hood, and bulb would cost me at least $350, and i will need at least 2 of them for my new flower box. I plan to do lst/ccob so I only need 2 or 3 feet of penetration. That is 1200w for $700. 3 of the 357 will cost me more like $2k to cover the same 3.5'x7' area, but it will probably draw half the power and i wont need to air-cool the hoods, or vent the room, so I can go with co2. :hump:
 
M

medicine21

Active Member
Spuzzum said:
So, I'm confused. Are they really Bridgelux, or are they cheap Chinese knock-offs? A quick google for "red bridgelux 3w", or just plain ol' "bridgelux 3 watt" pops up alibaba and other China importers.

Please tell me I'm just reading this wrong... :p
Click to expand...
If we are lucky we will have a representative from 357Mag on this thread in the next couple of days, addressing just these types of questions.;-)
 
D

Devilspawn

Well-Known Member
Not shilling at all dude- just asking if anyone has really looked ta them- I'm on my first grow with a cool cab with two 90 w ufos and everyone here has me convinced flowering will not be that great although veg is pretty awsome so far other than my screw ups with nutes. With only 4.5 sq ft, I don't know i the 357 is overkill- If I had a bigger cab, I wouldn't think twice. Seeing these blackstars have 3w crees makes me hopefull- will see. Will post in my journal as the grow progresses and following Dunit to see if the 357 is getting it done.
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
Devilspawn said:
Not shilling at all dude- just asking if anyone has really looked ta them- I'm on my first grow with a cool cab with two 90 w ufos and everyone here has me convinced flowering will not be that great although veg is pretty awsome so far other than my screw ups with nutes. With only 4.5 sq ft, I don't know i the 357 is overkill- If I had a bigger cab, I wouldn't think twice. Seeing these blackstars have 3w crees makes me hopefull- will see. Will post in my journal as the grow progresses and following Dunit to see if the 357 is getting it done.
Click to expand...
I can tell you right now that they don't have 3w crees at that price. Hudsonvalley already took one apart and they dont even have a proper heat sink. I'd run an ISIS in your cab (or one similar proven light), I basically ran 4.8 12" plants per light in a 3ft high grow area and pulled down over 5 zips per light. I'd say something around the 170w area will do you just fne.
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
Devilspawn said:
Not shilling at all dude- just asking if anyone has really looked ta them- I'm on my first grow with a cool cab with two 90 w ufos and everyone here has me convinced flowering will not be that great although veg is pretty awsome so far other than my screw ups with nutes. With only 4.5 sq ft, I don't know i the 357 is overkill- If I had a bigger cab, I wouldn't think twice. Seeing these blackstars have 3w crees makes me hopefull- will see. Will post in my journal as the grow progresses and following Dunit to see if the 357 is getting it done.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say you're a schill....lol. I think LedBudGuy was having a bad day :-) I followed his first grow journal and the guy can grow and it was his journal,combined with my own research, that got me to call GrowPerfect and that's how I got my 357's. The internet sucks because there's always some keyboard cowboy looking to discredit you and I noticed on his thread that he quickly stopped answering a lot of questions that were trying to cast doubt on his progress. In the end the numbers were impressive and at this point if I found out his lights came from Bangladesh and the substrate was actually chewed by sweat shop children......they worked and worked really well and that's what I'm most interested in. My lights come from the same company so I'm hoping for great results also.
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
@ Spuzzum I kind of appreciate the research because I basically did the same thing when looking into Blackstar. If something doesn't add up at first glance you look into it a bit more. When I was in commercial electronics we had lots of stuff built-to-order that wasn't available on a manufacturers product list so that could be part of it and I sent an email to GrowPerfect to inquire so I'll keep you posted.

I know if you go on Bridglux.com and look at their LED Arrays and download any of their PDF product data sheets, flip through to the spectrum graph (pg 15 on the ES series and pg 13 on all others) it shows their warm white arrays have two peaks, one at about 450nm and one at about 630nm and they cover a lot of ground in between. Of course this is impossible to do if they only product blue spectrum LED's so they obviously make other chipsets and just not sure why those aren't listed.
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
Flowering under led's is pretty impressive actually.. tighter buds, with waaaay more crystal. :D

This video's from a mod at thcfarmer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCXhj0iP0Mc

Here's the thread to go with it:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f8/theherbalizors-penetrator-345w-test-23349/


And this garden's from someone else at same site:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f137/led-lights-good-4-a-29184/






Yet again, 1 more from same site:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f6/irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-28169/












And here's what a measly 60 watts can do:
http://www.ledgrow.eu/










Looking at those pics, I can't see how anyone can doubt "if" they'll actually produce. Pictures are worth a thousand words....
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
dunit said:
@ Spuzzum I kind of appreciate the research because I basically did the same thing when looking into Blackstar. If something doesn't add up at first glance you look into it a bit more. When I was in commercial electronics we had lots of stuff built-to-order that wasn't available on a manufacturers product list so that could be part of it and I sent an email to GrowPerfect to inquire so I'll keep you posted.

I know if you go on Bridglux.com and look at their LED Arrays and download any of their PDF product data sheets, flip through to the spectrum graph (pg 15 on the ES series and pg 13 on all others) it shows their warm white arrays have two peaks, one at about 450nm and one at about 630nm and they cover a lot of ground in between. Of course this is impossible to do if they only product blue spectrum LED's so they obviously make other chipsets and just not sure why those aren't listed.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say "impossible"... white led's "start" with blue. Can't get white without the blue.

So what their doing is just using mixed whites? Like cfl/fluoro growers? I've looked at the data sheets, and all I saw was blue.. and white. Even the "helion" or whatever they make.. only whites:
http://www.helieon.com/specifications.html

And if you look at digikey.com, again.. Bridgelux only makes whites:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?site=us&lang=en&v=976&c=8&WT.z_supplier_id=976&WT.z_page_type=SP&WT.z_page_sub_type=SS&WT.z_oss_type=Category&chp=0


The guys at candlepowerforums are quite knowledgeable in these high powered led's.. a lot more than us smokers/growers, so I'd tend to take their word when they say Bridgelux doesn't make coloured led's.

Something sounds fishy......




cheers........ Spuzzum
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
Spuzzum said:
I wouldn't say "impossible"... white led's "start" with blue. Can't get white without the blue.
So what their doing is just using mixed whites? Like cfl/fluoro growers? I've looked at the data sheets, and all I saw was blue.. and white. Even the "helion" or whatever they make.. only whites:
http://www.helieon.com/specifications.html
And if you look at digikey.com, again.. Bridgelux only makes whites:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?site=us&lang=en&v=976&c=8&WT.z_supplier_id=976&WT.z_page_type=SP&WT.z_page_sub_type=SS&WT.z_oss_type=Category&chp=0

The guys at candlepowerforums are quite knowledgeable in these high powered led's.. a lot more than us smokers/growers, so I'd tend to take their word when they say Bridgelux doesn't make coloured led's.
Something sounds fishy......

cheers........ Spuzzum
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Its not impossible to produce cool white light starting with blue but it is impossible to produce warm white light.

White LED light is usually produced by taking blue led's and yellow phosphor and the light from the LED excites the phosphor and it emits yellow light. The combination produces white light but the light spectrum is limited to anything blue to yellow and in between so it can only produce cool light because no combination of blue and yellow will produce Orange or Red. Red light is beyond the yellow spectrum so impossible to produce in that situation. To produce warm white light a housing will contain mutliple diodes of different spectrums in combinations of blue, green, yellow and red to produce the overall light color desired. There has to be red diodes to get the spectrum to output above 590nm so even though neither of us can find a specific part number for it, Bridgelux is obviously making a red diode somewhere in the mix because the output of their warm white lights peaks about 630 which also happens to be the peak of the mysterious Red Bridgelux LED's that I supposedly have :-)

Also your Digikey search only produced Power Modules and not individual LED's and in fact Digi-key doesn't carry any Bridgelux LED's, only their Power Modules. I was just doing some research and that was the first place I went too also. I was suprised they don't carry Bridgelux LED's at all but I think that more and more manufacturers are just using their own websites to direct wholesale and cut out the middle men. I also think that when a retailer custom orders a product they lock down the supplier so people can't buy their custom configuration direct or wholesale. When I bought my Procyons, the CREE's that Procyon was using weren't available on Digikey. I know because I tried to build my own panel :-)
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
Spuzzum said:
Flowering under led's is pretty impressive actually.. tighter buds, with waaaay more crystal. :D

Looking at those pics, I can't see how anyone can doubt "if" they'll actually produce. Pictures are worth a thousand words.
Click to expand...
I think this was directed at the comment by Devilspawn about hearing bad things about LED's in flower.

I think he has good reason to be concerned because that has always been the issue with LED's in the past. Awesome veg....but light airy buds that shrink down to nothing when they dry. I've had it happen myself with some of the older LED's I tried and I think the biggest issues is being realistic about coverage. I don't think it matters if you have 2x90Watt UFO's a 240 Blackstar or a 170 ISIS. If you are trying to cover a 4 ft by 4ft area with any of those combos it's not going to be enough PAR (light used by the plants) to produce dense bud.

Too many manufacturers overstate their claim and if you talk to them the claims get even more outrageous. I think to cover a 4ft by 4ft area you better have at least 350 watts of hi-power LED's. There was a guy, I think on my thread, who asked about covering a 4x8 table and was told by GrowPerfect to use 3x 357's. I think that's very realistic.
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
I just emailed sales at Bridgelux and asked straight up.. "do you make coloured led's?"

Will let you know as soon as they reply.
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
Spuzzum said:
I just emailed sales at Bridgelux and asked straight up.. "do you make coloured led's?"

Will let you know as soon as they reply.
Click to expand...
Haha! I did the same thing more or less. I asked if their warm whites used mutliple diodes of different colors to get the red spectrum or how they get output past yellow.
 
dunit

dunit

Active Member
Further to my comments about wattage and LED power to get coverage. LENS ANGLE IS ALSO CRITICAL. Here's a link to a post I made about lens angle. Basically its the trigonometry showing how at the same height a 550W panel can put half the light to the plant of a 260W panel if the lens angle is too wide.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/240615-led-users-unite-post5193096.html#post5193096

When I bought my 357 I wanted to find a hi-power panel with small lens angle. Not 100% but pretty sure my 357 is 60 degrees. The only other panel in the running was the Penetrator 345 but it was $400 more than my 357 and I couldn't determine if it even had IR or UV which are important for mold suppression and stress to induce flowering.
 
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