Recruiting growers with nutrients and TDS/PPM/EC meters

[Snow Crash]

I think this site could help people out quite a bit with their nutrient levels, and save many growers from entering the sick plant section, if there was more information about nutrients here.

What I'd like to do is to gather together some knowledgeable growers, the more chemistry they understand the better but all are welcome, who can assist in this endeavor; because I'm not qualified enough to do it on my own.

If you have a good meter, access to RO water (grocery stores), and any liquid or dry nutrients then you can help us all!

For growers with calibrated meters the plan is to:

1. Measure out 1 Liter of RO filtered water to an established level in an empty 1 Liter water bottle.
2. Place into a non-reactive container. A glass pitcher would be ideal.
3. Add exactly 1ml of a nutrient. For A+B nutrients add 1ml of each for 2ml total.
4. Measure and record the pH, TDS/PPM, and EC/uCm.
​

We'll calculate for the nutrients listed on the bottle using a ppm conversion formula

1. Multiply the nutrient percentage value listed on bottle by 10,000 to change from percent to ppm
2. Divide that number by 1001 (1002 for A and B)
3. Apply appropriate compensator (X*0.44 for phosphorus and X*0.83 for potassium)
4. Add totals of N, P2O4, K2O, Ca, Mg, and anything else listed and calculated together.
​

And then we will compare the measured values with the predicted values to determine deviances. We can then "converse" with each other as to what we think the unlisted elements to be based on the measurement tools and then try to come to some agreement in time. I'm open to changing our method too, you may be more knowledge about this stuff than I am and have a better way to go about it.

However it is done I believe it needs to be done.

It would be great to have multiple people with different meters and the same nutrients running the tests. Over time this data could accumulate and give the community a more accurate idea of what is going into the water. Some day it might allow growers to estimate their ppm levels without any meter at all...

 

[jesus of Cannabis]

buzz kill




but sounds llike a nifty idea......fire up the vap!!
+rep

 

[Snow Crash]

I'll go down and pick up some water tomorrow to begin testing. This thread will be for recruits. I can then PM the people here the link for the new thread and link it here too when we start the testing.

 

[Illumination]

I have a ro filter I use and water ppm's 25-30 ppm on HM Digital temperature adjusting ppm meter 0.5 conversion factor....in essence 100 ppm = .1 ec

Martini temp compensating ph meter 0.1 readings

Nutrients I have:
Bloombastic
Fox Farm Big Bloom
Jack's Classic General purpose
Jack's Bloom Booster
Jack's professional peat lite
Dyna Gro Foliage Pro
Dyna Gro Bloom
Dyna Gro Protekt
Dyna Gro Mag Pro
Dyna Gro KLN
Carl Poole BR-61
Botanicaire Cal-Mag plus
Triflex Grow (garbage)
Earth Nectar
Earth Ambrosia
Superthrive

As I use gallon measurements I could offer those as I use these...please advise as to what info and what format you desire

Namaste'

 

[Snow Crash]

Great idea listing the nutrients you have and your meter, I should have asked for that.

I'm looking to do everything on a 1ml to 1L ratio with the A+B systems working on a 2ml basis.

Gallon work is good, and you have great water, but for the sake of the experiment it's important to remove as many variables as possible. Gotta go down to the store and spend the $0.50 on a gallon of RO water and then you can do at least 3 tests on that. 5 gallons of RO water will allow for 18 tests.

I personally have a Hanna HI991404 Combo Gro'Chek continuous monitor and the nutrients I have around include:
Canna Coco A
Canna Coco B
Canna Rhizotonic
Canna PK 13/14
BioCanna BioBoost Accelerator
Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus
Botanicare Liquid Karma
Organicare Calplex
Organicare Huvega
Organicare Humega
Advanced Nutrients Sensi Bloom A
Advanced Nutrients Sensi Bloom B
Advanced Nutrients Big Bud dry
Advanced Nutrients Nirvana
DynaGro Pro-tekt
Humboldt Nutrients SeaMag
Humboldt Nutrients FlavorFul
Humboldt Nutrients MayanMicrozym
Humboldt Nutrients Honey ES
Earth Juice Bloom
Earth Juice Catalyst
Fox Farm Grow Big
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom
General Hydroponics Liquid KoolBloom
General Hydroponics pH down
General Hydroponics pH up
TechnaFlora pH down

 

[Illumination]

the ro water down at the store is 50-60 ppm here...lmao

I guess you want distilled?

Namaste'

 

[Snow Crash]

I was just looking for something consistent. If it is 50 to 60ppm then that's fine as long as everyone's is the same (or close).
We could try to decide on the same brand RO or something.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. The RO water I have access to is more like <15ppm. 50ppm to 60ppm is my tap water.

I have read in my past that distilled water is bad for growing with but cannot remember why. I figured since Distilled is a type of water a person wouldn't be using (or shouldn't be) then we should be using a standard that people do use. Reverse Osmosis filtered water fits the bill well, I think. I'll check it out tomorrow at the store to see if the RO water from the machine tests different from the gallon jugs of various brands I can get at the store.

Water is cheap enough... It's the meters and the measuring I'm more concerned about. Of all the variables those are impossible to control. It is important we are reading accurate levels on all the meters involved by calibrating. Having some overlap of same meter, same water, same nutrient, same volume will give us some insight into how consistent and accurate testing methods are. I am going to be using a syringe that I got to give medicine to my cat but don't need anymore. It's clean and accurate to within 0.1ml. I suggest we get some heads together to figure out the best way to measure for the test too.

 

[Illumination]

I use syringes for liquids as well...I believe that a simple bit of math will help here...simply test the water prior to adding and then after...record both

Namaste'

 

[Snow Crash]

Subtracting out the difference is going to help.

I guess my concern is the combination of elements in the water and how they may, or may not, react with what is added. I could be over thinking that part and I wasn't aiming for totally pure water, just mostly pure. If we can get under 50ppm on the starting water then I think that should probably be good enough. The more consistency we create the better though.

Knowing the starting ppm is important for sure.

 

[Illumination]

like I stated previously my ro unit produces water with a ppm of 27 - 30

Namaste'

 

[YThor]

I have read in my past that distilled water is bad for growing with but cannot remember why. I figured since Distilled is a type of water a person wouldn't be using (or shouldn't be) then we should be using a standard that people do use. Reverse Osmosis filtered water fits the bill well, I think. I'll check it out tomorrow at the store to see if the RO water from the machine tests different from the gallon jugs of various brands I can get at the store.

Distilled water is "too much" in that you've removed virtually all of the solutes, so there's no buffering capacity: the slightest change or addition to the water will cause wild pH swings.

At the other end of the spectrum is water that is "too hard," like that found in cities that get surface water in the desert. Too many solutes make it tough to grow things, but it also keeps the pH from shifting rapidly.

RO water is highly variable, and its quality depends upon many factors- including the efficiency and the age of the membrane.

 

[Snow Crash]

Distilled water is "too much" in that you've removed virtually all of the solutes, so there's no buffering capacity: the slightest change or addition to the water will cause wild pH swings.

At the other end of the spectrum is water that is "too hard," like that found in cities that get surface water in the desert. Too many solutes make it tough to grow things, but it also keeps the pH from shifting rapidly.

RO water is highly variable, and its quality depends upon many factors- including the efficiency and the age of the membrane.

[sarcasm]It's nice to have people providing problems without solutions...[/sarcasm]

And as I've stated before it's going to be important to establish consistency.

This is why I have already suggested we all use the same "brand" of water. We test before adding nutrients. And we establish as much of a standard as possible.

Distilled definitely won't work. Tap water will deviate too much. The only way to earn much validity in this study is for us to use a Brand Name Water. People without access to this brand name water won't be able to participate so it is going to be important to pick something everyone can have access to that isn't going to be overly expensive. So Evian is out.

While I'm out at the store I'll write down the brands and then we can go from there.

Plenty of time to do this right. No need to rush it or hurry.

I appreciate the info you guys are providing but this is supposed to be a community effort. Don't just come in saying "why it won't work" or "what is wrong." Instead provide solutions to the problems you identify which others have not.

I just think this will work better if we are all pitching in to the solution, rather than building a mountain of problems.

The water thing has been handled as best it can in my opinion. I'm open to more SOLUTIONS in regards to that aspect of the experiment.

 

[YThor]

I think you misunderstood me; I was addressing your note that you couldn't recall why DI isn't all that good for growing. No buffering = lousy stuff when it comes to pH swings.

If you're looking for a decent standard, I'd suggest something like AquaFina, which is produced by Coca Cola. The purification and subsequent QC program there to assure consistent product will probably be the best of any brand available domestically.

 

[Snow Crash]

That would probably work. Sorry man, I was in a mood, thanks for the info.

 

[Motherhugger]

I think this site could help people out quite a bit with their nutrient levels, and save many growers from entering the sick plant section, if there was more information about nutrients here.

What I'd like to do is to gather together some knowledgeable growers, the more chemistry they understand the better but all are welcome, who can assist in this endeavor; because I'm not qualified enough to do it on my own.

If you have a good meter, access to RO water (grocery stores), and any liquid or dry nutrients then you can help us all!

For growers with calibrated meters the plan is to:

1. Measure out 1 Liter of RO filtered water to an established level in an empty 1 Liter water bottle.
2. Place into a non-reactive container. A glass pitcher would be ideal.
3. Add exactly 1ml of a nutrient. For A+B nutrients add 1ml of each for 2ml total.
4. Measure and record the pH, TDS/PPM, and EC/uCm.
​

We'll calculate for the nutrients listed on the bottle using a ppm conversion formula

1. Multiply the nutrient percentage value listed on bottle by 10,000 to change from percent to ppm
2. Divide that number by 1001 (1002 for A and B)
3. Apply appropriate compensator (X*0.44 for phosphorus and X*0.83 for potassium)
4. Add totals of N, P2O4, K2O, Ca, Mg, and anything else listed and calculated together.
​

And then we will compare the measured values with the predicted values to determine deviances. We can then "converse" with each other as to what we think the unlisted elements to be based on the measurement tools and then try to come to some agreement in time. I'm open to changing our method too, you may be more knowledge about this stuff than I am and have a better way to go about it.

However it is done I believe it needs to be done.

It would be great to have multiple people with different meters and the same nutrients running the tests. Over time this data could accumulate and give the community a more accurate idea of what is going into the water. Some day it might allow growers to estimate their ppm levels without any meter at all...

What a freakin sweet idea.

I'll be watching this thread and contributing as I can.

I run:

Sensi A&B Grow
Sensi A&B Bloom
Voodoo Juice
B-52
Bud Candy
Big Bud
Overdrive

We'll all learn something from this...

 

[Snow Crash]

My Shark's Breath has been lazying me recently...

I will get around to this shortly.