NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I heard an interesting factoid about that too... The government receives about 18% of GDP no matter what the tax rate is set at, even if the top rate is 90%.
People just find ways to hide the income/money.
Stoner's views on Barack Obama as President
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People just find ways to hide the income/money.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i am such a raging progressive liberal that i want the government to monitor my bowel movements and mandate when i shit, how much, where, and how much toilet paper i use when i wipe.
there, i admitted it
i also want to give welfare to people that are simply lazy, using only funds from the hardest working stiffs.
this is my dream
there, i admitted it
i also want to give welfare to people that are simply lazy, using only funds from the hardest working stiffs.
this is my dream
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Did you just lose your job?i am such a raging progressive liberal that i want the government to monitor my bowel movements and mandate when i shit, how much, where, and how much toilet paper i use when i wipe.
there, i admitted it
i also want to give welfare to people that are simply lazy, using only funds from the hardest working stiffs.
this is my dream
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
define 'just'
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
About the same time you reached your welfare epiphany...
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Progressives and Conservatives see the world from completely different perspectives. Which is why we seldom find common ground.
It is almost as if we speak different languages.
I could never say I know for certain how Progressives think. All I can do is make an educated guess based on what I do know from reading and the exchange of ideas.
My perceptions:
Some Progressives believe we are our brother's keeper. That Conservatives are greedy and must be compelled to do the right thing. To 'legislate morality' in this fashion is acceptable. Conservatives must submit to this philosophy against their will; by the force of government if necessary.
Some Progressives believe everything belongs to the government, which is an extension of the people. Because the government (the people) owns it all anyway, it has the prerogative to dictate to citizens how much of their income they are allowed to keep.
Some Progressives believe earning more money than is required to live comfortably is immoral. That one reaches a point when one earns enough money. It falls to the government to right this wrong.
Some Progressives believe in the notion of 'permanent plenty.' The idea that there is enough to go around for everyone, if some people were not so selfish.
Some Progressives believe that business is inherently bad and fundamentally rapacious. An oppressive influence which if left unchecked would callously disregard those it could not exploit. A malicious force which must be controlled through heavy taxes and regulations.
Some Progressive believe the affluent did not earn their wealth. They inherited it, or cheated to get it. As such they should be required to give back to society.
Some Progressives believe the United States is not a force of good on this planet. Just the opposite. They see the U.S. as an Imperial bully on the world stage subjugating other countries to its will. Our enemies attack us because we give them no other choice. If we are attacked, it is our fault for provoking them. The U.S. uses more of the planets natural resources as a percentage of population than any other country and this should cease immediately. And if the rest of the world cannot be brought up to our standard of living, our standard of living should be decreased.
Please note I prefaced each statement with the word 'some.' Meaning not all Progressives believe every statement I made. I would also like to stress that I am not saying those things are necessarily true. Simply my perceptions.
It is almost as if we speak different languages.
I could never say I know for certain how Progressives think. All I can do is make an educated guess based on what I do know from reading and the exchange of ideas.
My perceptions:
Some Progressives believe we are our brother's keeper. That Conservatives are greedy and must be compelled to do the right thing. To 'legislate morality' in this fashion is acceptable. Conservatives must submit to this philosophy against their will; by the force of government if necessary.
Some Progressives believe everything belongs to the government, which is an extension of the people. Because the government (the people) owns it all anyway, it has the prerogative to dictate to citizens how much of their income they are allowed to keep.
Some Progressives believe earning more money than is required to live comfortably is immoral. That one reaches a point when one earns enough money. It falls to the government to right this wrong.
Some Progressives believe in the notion of 'permanent plenty.' The idea that there is enough to go around for everyone, if some people were not so selfish.
Some Progressives believe that business is inherently bad and fundamentally rapacious. An oppressive influence which if left unchecked would callously disregard those it could not exploit. A malicious force which must be controlled through heavy taxes and regulations.
Some Progressive believe the affluent did not earn their wealth. They inherited it, or cheated to get it. As such they should be required to give back to society.
Some Progressives believe the United States is not a force of good on this planet. Just the opposite. They see the U.S. as an Imperial bully on the world stage subjugating other countries to its will. Our enemies attack us because we give them no other choice. If we are attacked, it is our fault for provoking them. The U.S. uses more of the planets natural resources as a percentage of population than any other country and this should cease immediately. And if the rest of the world cannot be brought up to our standard of living, our standard of living should be decreased.
Please note I prefaced each statement with the word 'some.' Meaning not all Progressives believe every statement I made. I would also like to stress that I am not saying those things are necessarily true. Simply my perceptions.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Without a doubt some subscribe to the belief that America must be made to fall so that it can be rebuilt as a more just nation.
The My Lai approach. In order to save the country we must destroy it.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
not entirely true...
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
how did i let this slide down the board never to be bumped again? well, i am fixing that tonight.
the earth is a paradise that can provide everyone with the basic necessities for life.
and i would be quite satisfied to make rapacious businesses conform to the shared human idea of decency (livable wage, safe working conditions, safe products) through regulation alone. no need for heavy taxation.
if there were some i did not address, it was simply because the caricature was just too ridiculous, or not what i would consider to be progressive at all, in my experience. your mileage may vary.
actually, this one is true, and i meant to say as much when i read it around christmas time.
the earth is a paradise that can provide everyone with the basic necessities for life.
some businesses, not all. and the some that are not 'rapacious' are not altruistically so, it is an image that helps them move more goods.
and i would be quite satisfied to make rapacious businesses conform to the shared human idea of decency (livable wage, safe working conditions, safe products) through regulation alone. no need for heavy taxation.
well, that is actually true quite often - wealth is often inherited or stolen. teddy roosevelt's justification of the estate tax is the same way i would justify it.
actually, i see both as true. we are a force of good and unnecessarily imperialistic at the same time
if there were some i did not address, it was simply because the caricature was just too ridiculous, or not what i would consider to be progressive at all, in my experience. your mileage may vary.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
I was wondering when someone would get around to it. I'm happy it's you.
And why are there people starving in third world shit-holes even when aid shipments are delivered? Corrupt government officials? Probably. Warlords? Perhaps. Either way. It has little to do with me.
Yeah I guess that explains why Ben & Jerry's outperforms Exxon.
Would you be satisfied paying the prices required to sustain such a workers paradise as you describe? Ten dollar Big Macs. Convenience store prices all of a sudden would not be so convenient, either.
Would you shrug the cost increases off as fair trade-off to live in your perfect society, or would you blame the company for gouging you?
I think we both know the answer to that question.
Viva Hugo Chavez!
That Liberal stereotype represents the minority. Most affluent people earned their own money.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html
I can't disagree. But I would hope that the former is more common than the latter.
Like I stated in my post, those are simply my perceptions. And ridiculous caricature or not, I have seen those opinions reflected by Progressives here and elsewhere.
Maybe they simply do not apply to you.
Which is why I prefaced each point with the word 'some.'
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
not sure by what metric you calculate it would cost $10 to get a big mac.
pretty much everyone down the line, from the rancher, to the factory schmuck that produces the patty, even the oily zit-herder behind the counter asking if i want fries with that has safe working conditions and a somewhat livable wage.
i'm not sure how setting up a seasonal worker system and paying the immigrant who picks the lettuce a fair wage would quintuple the cost of that diarrhea producer we so lovingly call the 'big mac'.
my objections are with the corporations that mine child labor from other countries, or exploit workers in unsafe working conditions, while killing american jobs in the process all in the name of a 'better than projected 2.3% increase in profits'.
ben & jerry's does not have to charge 5x more than the next guy to produce decent ice cream.
if only every business could be run by two stoners from vermont.
did you know in france they call it 'le big mac'? it's true. i have video evidence.
[video=youtube;srrsjDWCHTU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrsjDWCHTU&feature=related[/video]
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
The metric I use is primarily the 'livable wage' you mentioned. We'll leave for another time the effect of burdensome regulations on prices and wages.
If I had my way there would be no minimum wage. But like the regulation topic, we can discuss that another time.
I think we can all agree that no one can really live on the minimum wage. Which means that the minimum wage would need to be raised. Every time the government raises the minimum wage, negative consequences ripple through the economy.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5543026/government_mandated_minimum_wage_harmful.html
So hypothetically, let's say the 'livable wage' is $15 an hour. Most people could live on that, provided all other prices remain static. But that would never happen unless the government went all Hugo Chavez on us and prohibited business from raising prices in response to government-instituted pressures on business.
What would happen to convenience store prices if all employees there made at least $15 an hour?
What would the price of the Big Mac rise to if all the paper hats were paid a minimum $15 an hour?
What would a loaf of bread cost?
I could go on, but you get the point.
And there is something I have noticed about a very large number of minimum wage employees. They suck. There is reason why they make minimum wage. Many minimum wage employees lack a strong work ethic and soft skills like reliability and the ability to arrive to work on time ready to work. Even if a minimum wage employee is decent they soon become discouraged and fatigued picking up the slack and not being rewarded because the employer is forced to pay the shitty employees a minimum wage. So under the minimum wage, dependable minimum wage employees subsidize crappy minimum wage employees. What a well thought out and wonderful scheme!
So let's reward those slackers by paying them a 'livable wage.' Prices go up. And the employees who actually do the work are punished because they will not receive merit raises because the slackers are sucking up those wages.
Hence the huge attrition and turn around rates in the min wage businesses. Which in itself hinders the business because it seems that just when someone becomes proficient in their assigned tasks, they leave for bigger and better things. A new hire will have to take his place and more resources will have to be spent to get the new hire proficient.
Great post Johnny,
You know I gotta spread it around some more.
Big P
Well-Known Member
think about it guys it takes like 2 days to train a minimum wage worker i mean how hard is it to train somone to us a weed wacker, pick strawberries, or shovel french fries into a bag, the ones that do good get promoted to herd the idiots still on the min wage dole,
at this point i would never get married again cuz i can put my g/f on welfare as extra income and any kids I have with her food stamps, then i can work and pretend im not even around to support them,
now that im divorced im putting this plan into action as we speak, so we as a family will be on the government dole while i already make a shit load of money in the private sector,
and if you are wondering why I have no care about taking tax payer money when i make a great salary already, its because the way i see it, its my way to get payback from the governemnt robbing me every year. the way I see it i am orchestrating my own little tax cut up in here
I get a bonus at the end of the year if i bust my ass and make lots of money for my company. if i get a bonus check for $20,000
the fucks in the gov let me take home a whopping $12,000 of my $20,000 i slaved all hours and all year for sacrificing much of the time i have to spend with the kids just to provide them with a better life
they take so much of my money it makes me sick specially when you realize they are taking it from your kids futures to pay for waste fraud and corruption its enough to make you get an uzi and make a statment, but since im smart I prefer to just get my money back from the gov anyway i can hit em
on top of that if i didnt have a good job i would be slagin erb and cashing in too.
fuck the forces of anti-freedom in America, many people in america dont deserve to be called americans. but people often never get what they deserve specially in socialist societies
games already over in europe. and if calli falls like many of there paper states in europe then they are going to take the rest of the country with them.
its a chain reaction and half of you guys are pulling up all our anchors like many idiots in the past who have destroyed themselves,
its natural for you idiots to destroy us speaking from a historic perspective ofcoarse
at this point i would never get married again cuz i can put my g/f on welfare as extra income and any kids I have with her food stamps, then i can work and pretend im not even around to support them,
now that im divorced im putting this plan into action as we speak, so we as a family will be on the government dole while i already make a shit load of money in the private sector,
and if you are wondering why I have no care about taking tax payer money when i make a great salary already, its because the way i see it, its my way to get payback from the governemnt robbing me every year. the way I see it i am orchestrating my own little tax cut up in here
I get a bonus at the end of the year if i bust my ass and make lots of money for my company. if i get a bonus check for $20,000
the fucks in the gov let me take home a whopping $12,000 of my $20,000 i slaved all hours and all year for sacrificing much of the time i have to spend with the kids just to provide them with a better life
they take so much of my money it makes me sick specially when you realize they are taking it from your kids futures to pay for waste fraud and corruption its enough to make you get an uzi and make a statment, but since im smart I prefer to just get my money back from the gov anyway i can hit em
on top of that if i didnt have a good job i would be slagin erb and cashing in too.
fuck the forces of anti-freedom in America, many people in america dont deserve to be called americans. but people often never get what they deserve specially in socialist societies
games already over in europe. and if calli falls like many of there paper states in europe then they are going to take the rest of the country with them.
its a chain reaction and half of you guys are pulling up all our anchors like many idiots in the past who have destroyed themselves,
its natural for you idiots to destroy us speaking from a historic perspective ofcoarse
Bonesplitter
Member
I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries and didn't even bother voting in the general election. Obama is the worst President this country has had in its history for a number of reasons:
-More troops have died in Afghanistan under Obama than under Bush
-Obama sent 40000 more troops to Afghanistan
-Obamacare == Bailout for Big Pharma
-Predator drone strikes in Pakistan and other nations
He has continued every policy Bush enacted and added a bunch of socialist bullshit to it.
-More troops have died in Afghanistan under Obama than under Bush
-Obama sent 40000 more troops to Afghanistan
-Obamacare == Bailout for Big Pharma
-Predator drone strikes in Pakistan and other nations
He has continued every policy Bush enacted and added a bunch of socialist bullshit to it.
medicineman
New Member
Obama is cool, no doubt. He has tried to push the progressive agenda, I give him Kudos for that, but he has let the military industrial complex rule way too much of his presidency. The so-called medical bill is no more than a giveaway to big medical, with a couple of carrots for the middle class. 40 million new forced customers, seems like a pretty good deal for the insurance companies, no? All the military wants have pretty much been granted, homeland security has more teeth than ever, less rights of privacy for the citizenry, No public option for the medical bill pretty much killed the whole premis of medical for all at a reasonable price, while single payer, the only really workable solution was thrown out at first light.. Out of a possible 10, I give him a 4, which is about 10 more than I gave Dubya in his best moment.
he works for the nwo agenda, not for you medicineman http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20027800-281.html