Question about grow setup...

[PHRoG]

I plan on starting a grow by March and had some questions about the setup...This summer I got a smoking deal on some ballasts/bulbs and hoods.

I have 3 of each:

ballast: Hydrofarm 400 watt Metal Halide M59 - 120v 4.0a 60hz
bulb: Agrosun Gold 400w High Output Horizontal - BUSUHL400HZAS
hood: Hydrofarm Radiant Hood (Including lense, not sure if I should use it or not)

Would you believe I scored them at a garage sale for $25? I was told they were never used (the bulbs/hoods are still in their sealed boxes) and the ballasts look brand new.

I'll give you as much detail about the grow setup as I can...Any and all comments/advice is greatly appreciated!

I live in Oregon, March is still going to be cold as hell...I have a shop I will be building the grow room in...I'm limited in width to 8' but length could be up to 14'...The shop is not heated, there is no drywall.

I will be building it into the corner of the shop, so I only need to construct 2 walls...I was planning on covering the walls in mylar, but not sure it's necessary (more on that later).

I plan on growing 4 - 6 female plants...I want the biggest yield I can get.

I will be using homemade aeroponics built using rubbermaid totes...I have a 120GPH pump which should be fine for up to 6 plants I believe...Nutes will be foxfarm.

Questions I currently have:

Ballasts: I have no idea if these are good quality ballasts or not (but for $25, I will willing to take the chance)...They are NOT digital...I'd like some feedback on these...Also, it says for MH bulbs only...I was planning on running 2xMH and 1xHPS for veg and changing to 2xHPS and 1xMH for flowering...Will these ballasts run HPS?

Bulbs: I currently have three Agrosun Gold 400w High Output Horizontal bulbs...The box says they supply more red so no need for HPS (don't always trust a box I've learned)...Are these good bulbs for me to use? If not, what would you recommend? Do they really supplement enough for me to eliminate HPS?

Hoods: I've read that it's a good idea to leave the glass insert OUT of the hood due to the glass filtering necessary UVB and such from the plants...Should I install the glass or toss it?

Mylar: I'll be running 1200 watts of light here, no clue how many lumens...I think this will be plenty for 4 - 6 plants...Should I paint the room white or coat with mylar? Mylar isn't very expensive, so if it's really better, I don't mind flipping the bill for it.

Temp control: Here is where I am kinda stuck...I have NO idea what to expect in terms of heat from the 3 lights...It's gonna be in the 30's for awhile still @ night here...I can put a roof on the room, however I don't want it to get TOO hot in there...Or I can make sure there is no roof if you think they will keep the room @ desired temp...The walls will be insulated...I did want to vent the air out from the shop or use a carbon filter...I'm also worried about the air being so cold from outside the room while venting...Any ideas or tips here would be great as it's my biggest obstacle at the moment.

Yield: Would I yield more from 4 HUGE plants under this setup or would you suggest 6 plants for greater yield? I'm sure the plants are going to get big and I don't want to cramp them in the small space...Any guesses on how much yield I could expect?

Nutes: From what I have read, FoxFarm is the way to go...For aeroponics, what would you suggest from the FoxFarm family?

I will be starting a grow journal once I start building the totes for the aeroponics...I could use some suggestions on the misters if anyone has any...Also if you want me to experiment with anything, now is the time to ask!

I'm sure I will have more to come, but this would help a ton!

Thanks in advance!
PHRoG

 

[PHRoG]

*friendly little bump*

 

[jomal206]

I'll try and answer as many questions as I can....or rather provide my insight....



Not sure about your light setup whatsoever, I'm still new to the HPS/mH game and are not sure about switching out bulbs and whatnot...though I do know using those lights will get you some really nice bud


As far as being cold....if you make a box to grow it in, your hot air from the lights is going to be enough to keep the plants fine....in fact it will be too hot and you'll have to pull that heat off of the plants, out of the box, as well as filtering in some of the cooler, fresh air. This can be done many ways.....even if you don't grow a room for your bud...and it's just in a garage or something....I still think your lights might produce enough heat to keep the room hot.....not quite sure though


Mylar and white paint are pretty similar I think....so whichever seems easier for you is probably the best option.

If you use LST in your grow, you'll produce much bigger yields. They'll also become big and fluffy instead of growing straight up so space is somewhat limited when it comes to that


Fox Farm nutes are the way to go....Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, any of that will work wonders.

Are you buying fem seeds or are you rolling the dice? If you don't have fem seeds...plan on growing an extra few plants to make up for the possible males. You'd hate to start 6 seeds and end up with 4 males...resulting in 2 plants as opposed to 6



Hope some of that helps

 

[email468]

I'll try to help...

I plan on starting a grow by March and had some questions about the setup...This summer I got a smoking deal on some ballasts/bulbs and hoods.

I have 3 of each:

ballast: Hydrofarm 400 watt Metal Halide M59 - 120v 4.0a 60hz
bulb: Agrosun Gold 400w High Output Horizontal - BUSUHL400HZAS
hood: Hydrofarm Radiant Hood (Including lense, not sure if I should use it or not)

Would you believe I scored them at a garage sale for $25? I was told they were never used (the bulbs/hoods are still in their sealed boxes) and the ballasts look brand new.

I'll give you as much detail about the grow setup as I can...Any and all comments/advice is greatly appreciated!

I live in Oregon, March is still going to be cold as hell...I have a shop I will be building the grow room in...I'm limited in width to 8' but length could be up to 14'...The shop is not heated, there is no drywall.

Height is also important since plants grow up. you may want to start with a few plants to get your feet wet before going all out.

I will be building it into the corner of the shop, so I only need to construct 2 walls...I was planning on covering the walls in mylar, but not sure it's necessary (more on that later).

I plan on growing 4 - 6 female plants...I want the biggest yield I can get.

I will be using homemade aeroponics built using rubbermaid totes...I have a 120GPH pump which should be fine for up to 6 plants I believe...Nutes will be foxfarm.

Questions I currently have:

Ballasts: I have no idea if these are good quality ballasts or not (but for $25, I will willing to take the chance)...They are NOT digital...I'd like some feedback on these...Also, it says for MH bulbs only...I was planning on running 2xMH and 1xHPS for veg and changing to 2xHPS and 1xMH for flowering...Will these ballasts run HPS?

Bulb and ballast MUST match. Don't run an HPS bulb in an MH ballast or vice versa.

Bulbs: I currently have three Agrosun Gold 400w High Output Horizontal bulbs...The box says they supply more red so no need for HPS (don't always trust a box I've learned)...Are these good bulbs for me to use? If not, what would you recommend? Do they really supplement enough for me to eliminate HPS?

since you are looking for the best possible yield you'll want MH for veg and HPS for flowering. if all you have is MH ballast then you can purchase an HPS conversion bulb (which is safe to run in an MH ballast).

Hoods: I've read that it's a good idea to leave the glass insert OUT of the hood due to the glass filtering necessary UVB and such from the plants...Should I install the glass or toss it?

Whoever told you that you can feel free to disregard their grow advice forever more. Glass in hoods is awesome! you don't have to worry about bulbs exploding on your plants and it is much, much easier to cool off your lights if they are enclosed. so install the glass.

Mylar: I'll be running 1200 watts of light here, no clue how many lumens...I think this will be plenty for 4 - 6 plants...Should I paint the room white or coat with mylar? Mylar isn't very expensive, so if it's really better, I don't mind flipping the bill for it.

mylar is the "best" reflective surface for growing if hung right (no wrinkles) - flat (not glossy) white paint or panda plastic is very good and much easier to clean and maintain - though mylar will help reflect some light into those hard to reach places. this one is your call - depends on how good your reflectors are and how much light penetration you are looking to get.

Temp control: Here is where I am kinda stuck...I have NO idea what to expect in terms of heat from the 3 lights...It's gonna be in the 30's for awhile still @ night here...I can put a roof on the room, however I don't want it to get TOO hot in there...Or I can make sure there is no roof if you think they will keep the room @ desired temp...The walls will be insulated...I did want to vent the air out from the shop or use a carbon filter...I'm also worried about the air being so cold from outside the room while venting...Any ideas or tips here would be great as it's my biggest obstacle at the moment.

you need to get some kind of plan for a constant supply of fresh air in and stale, hot and pungent air out. and since when you start flowering, your lights will be off for 12 hours, you need to maintain temperature with something other than your lights (space heater/air conditioner, etc..).

Yield: Would I yield more from 4 HUGE plants under this setup or would you suggest 6 plants for greater yield? I'm sure the plants are going to get big and I don't want to cramp them in the small space...Any guesses on how much yield I could expect?

Too many variables to give a true answer. Experience will increase your yields more than any other factor.

Nutes: From what I have read, FoxFarm is the way to go...For aeroponics, what would you suggest from the FoxFarm family?

I don't use FoxFarm so i won't comment.

I will be starting a grow journal once I start building the totes for the aeroponics...I could use some suggestions on the misters if anyone has any...Also if you want me to experiment with anything, now is the time to ask!

I'm sure I will have more to come, but this would help a ton!

Thanks in advance!
PHRoG

Best of luck and happy growing!

 

[mrfriendly420]

Unfortuneatly, the ballast you bought at the garage sale is rated for a MH bulb only. The reason the digital balasts can run both lights is because there's a cpu which changes the ignition voltage depending on the lamp. I believe HPS takes more start up energy to reach the temperature (5000F or so) so the ballasts are designed to control the electricity flow differently. I would suggest only using the MH bulbs with the hoods only during the vegetation stage. I wouldn't use the lens that came with the hood, someone else on the forums may have a better reason to include one, but my understanding is the glass envelope surrounding the cathode in the bulb is more than enough UV protection for the plants. Any additional filters may be detrimental. I don't use a lens on my reflector.

Also, mylar is a bitch to put up. It's got no weight so it always gets crinkled and it's so thin you can see some of the light leaking through these crinkles. I use vinyl which is black on the outside side and white on the inside side.

When you start flowering your plants I'd suggest getting a 400 watt digital ballast for your HPS. They're a great investment. A good company is Lumatek. Do you already own a HPS bulb?

As for temperature control. I would strongly recommend doing experiments after you've finished constructing your initial room. One thing to consider would be placing a space heater around your air intake if it's too cold for the first few months.

Anyway, I just started a new setup last week and am about to sesh.

Good Luck!

 

[mrfriendly420]

Whoever told you that you can feel free to disregard their grow advice forever more. Glass in hoods is awesome! you don't have to worry about bulbs exploding on your plants and it is much, much easier to cool off your lights if they are enclosed. so install the glass.

That's something I didn't even think of. Email468, if a grower is on a 24hr schedule, would a light cooling system and lens be at all useful, since the added temperature is an advantage?

 

[email468]

That's something I didn't even think of. Email468, if a grower is on a 24hr schedule, would a light cooling system and lens be at all useful, since the added temperature is an advantage?

my opinion is your climate should be controlled enough that the heat from the lights doesn't matter. you'll obviously have to compensate for the heat but you shouldn't be relying on it -- otherwise you're screwed during 12/12.

 

[gohydro]

PHRog did a great job of answering your questions so I won't waste the space. I too am using Rubbermaid tubs and like these spray heads.
5 pack. 360 deg. pin sprayers @ FUTUREGARDEN.COM

Rather than drill and tap the pvc as some sprayers require, this style only requires that you drill the holes and insert a rubber grommet.....then the spray head screws in to the rubber. Secondly, if they gunk up during operation you can just shut down the pump for a minute, pull the pin out, run the pump to blow out the gunk, and reinstall the pin. Much easier than trying to reach in an operating system and replacing a head.

Many of us have lots of experience with these tubs and I would encourage you to ask questions and look around before you start cutting holes for air lines, pump cords, level tubes or anything else.

Good Luck!

 

[PHRoG]

wow, lots of good responses!

If you use LST in your grow, you'll produce much bigger yields. They'll also become big and fluffy instead of growing straight up so space is somewhat limited when it comes to that

I am not familiar w/LST...Could you please explain in detail?

Fox Farm nutes are the way to go....Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, any of that will work wonders.

A lot of people say Fox Farm is the stuff to use...However, I'm trying to get a shopping list going for the remainder of the stuff I need...Do you know which ones specifically I should get for all stages of growth in an aeroponics setup?

Are you buying fem seeds or are you rolling the dice? If you don't have fem seeds...plan on growing an extra few plants to make up for the possible males. You'd hate to start 6 seeds and end up with 4 males...resulting in 2 plants as opposed to 6

Hehehe, this is for a whole different thread...Kinda, LOL...Ok, it is...Here's the tread I just made on that one.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/47148-seeds-strains-haaaaaaaaaalp.html

Hope some of that helps

It did, thank you!

Height is also important since plants grow up. you may want to start with a few plants to get your feet wet before going all out.

I was thinking the same thing...I think I have decided just to do 4 plants for now...In an 8x8 room that will give 4ft around each plant...However, height is kind of limited to about 8.5 ft to ceiling...I want 2 kinds of 2 diff strains.

Bulb and ballast MUST match. Don't run an HPS bulb in an MH ballast or vice versa.

since you are looking for the best possible yield you'll want MH for veg and HPS for flowering. if all you have is MH ballast then you can purchase an HPS conversion bulb (which is safe to run in an MH ballast).

Sweet, that's nice to know...Could you recommend a bulb brand? Also, will my current Agrosun Gold 400w H/O HORZ light work for the MH bulbs or are there better ones I should purchase?

Whoever told you that you can feel free to disregard their grow advice forever more. Glass in hoods is awesome! you don't have to worry about bulbs exploding on your plants and it is much, much easier to cool off your lights if they are enclosed. so install the glass.

LOL, I've read a lot of it here...It seems many are against it, yet equally as many are for it...I think I will go w/the lenses and use a UVB CF or 2 for the UVB supply.

mylar is the "best" reflective surface for growing if hung right (no wrinkles) - flat (not glossy) white paint or panda plastic is very good and much easier to clean and maintain - though mylar will help reflect some light into those hard to reach places. this one is your call - depends on how good your reflectors are and how much light penetration you are looking to get.

I have no idea on the quality of my reflectors...They are the Hydro Farm Radiant reflectors...For the mylar, I was going to apply it like window tint onto the drywall before it's hung...Using a spray, slow drying adhesive I could make them almost perfectly flat with no wrinkles...I like the idea of getting the absolute most out of my lights!

you need to get some kind of plan for a constant supply of fresh air in and stale, hot and pungent air out. and since when you start flowering, your lights will be off for 12 hours, you need to maintain temperature with something other than your lights (space heater/air conditioner, etc..).

I was going to vent the 3 lights out the top left hand corner as well as an dryer vent output w/fan so I could install a carbon filter...The fresh air will come from a bottom vent, with no fan (the act of sucking the air out of the room will automatically pull in the fresh air)...At least that is my plan.

Best of luck and happy growing!

Thanks for the help!

Unfortuneatly, the ballast you bought at the garage sale is rated for a MH bulb only. The reason the digital balasts can run both lights is because there's a cpu which changes the ignition voltage depending on the lamp. I believe HPS takes more start up energy to reach the temperature (5000F or so) so the ballasts are designed to control the electricity flow differently. I would suggest only using the MH bulbs with the hoods only during the vegetation stage. I wouldn't use the lens that came with the hood, someone else on the forums may have a better reason to include one, but my understanding is the glass envelope surrounding the cathode in the bulb is more than enough UV protection for the plants. Any additional filters may be detrimental. I don't use a lens on my reflector.

I think for cooling purposes I have decided to use the lens and I will suppliment UVA/UVB with 1 or 2 CF lamps.

Also, mylar is a bitch to put up. It's got no weight so it always gets crinkled and it's so thin you can see some of the light leaking through these crinkles. I use vinyl which is black on the outside side and white on the inside side.

Re: my idea of applying it as window tint above...Any opinions?

When you start flowering your plants I'd suggest getting a 400 watt digital ballast for your HPS. They're a great investment. A good company is Lumatek. Do you already own a HPS bulb?

For this grow I would really like to stick w/the ballasts I have...Someone mentioned above that I can obtain HPS conversion bulbs to work w/them...I do not own any HPS bulbs...If you have any recommendations for HPS conversion bulbs, that would be great!

As for temperature control. I would strongly recommend doing experiments after you've finished constructing your initial room. One thing to consider would be placing a space heater around your air intake if it's too cold for the first few months.

I had considered doing this is an oil filled heater.

Anyway, I just started a new setup last week and am about to sesh.

That's awesome!! Best of luck to you and send pics!

I too am using Rubbermaid tubs and like these spray heads.

5 pack. 360 deg. pin sprayers @ FUTUREGARDEN.COM

Rather than drill and tap the pvc as some sprayers require, this style only requires that you drill the holes and insert a rubber grommet.....then the spray head screws in to the rubber. Secondly, if they gunk up during operation you can just shut down the pump for a minute, pull the pin out, run the pump to blow out the gunk, and reinstall the pin. Much easier than trying to reach in an operating system and replacing a head.

Many of us have lots of experience with these tubs and I would encourage you to ask questions and look around before you start cutting holes for air lines, pump cords, level tubes or anything else.

I like that idea about the pin sprayers...I have a 120GPH aquarium pump that is new in box still...I was thinking for 4 plants, this should be sufficient pressure.

Do you have any links to info on the totes? I would love to get more info on these.

Also, with three 400 watt lights in an 8x8 room with mylar coated ceiling/walls does anyone think it would be a good idea to go 2xMH + 1xHPS for veg and 2xHPS + 1xMH for flowering?

I recall reading that HPS can add some benefit to the veg state and the same with MH. (although the reason for MH during flower may have been the increased UVB/UVA...If so, then I would no need for UVB/UVA CF lights for flowering)...Except the I just remembered that glass filters out UVB/UVA (from my reptile days) so I would have to run the MH w/no lense during veg.

Thanks again for the input!

 

[PHRoG]

Here's a breakdown of what I am thinking for the veg state...Only change would be the bulbs.

Any input would be great!

PHRoG

 

[gohydro]

Hey PHRog...NICE setup. Now, can you build it as well as you drew it?

My only comment would be that in a space that large you could have a seperate area for mothers/clones. Hopefully those leaves are just representations of the plants. I assume you're going to grow more than 4.....if not, overkill on the lighting.

 

[PHRoG]

Hey PHRog...NICE setup. Now, can you build it as well as you drew it?

My only comment would be that in a space that large you could have a seperate area for mothers/clones. Hopefully those leaves are just representations of the plants. I assume you're going to grow more than 4.....if not, overkill on the lighting.

Nope, each leaf represents 1 plant...From what I was reading w/that much light if I were to grow 4 monsters, I would yield very well from them...This is giving each plant 4ft around in room...If I were to put 2 plants per tote it would roughly be 2ft around for each plant, which does not seem like much.

I have no plans for moms/cloning just yet...For this shot, I simply want to grow and harvest...I plan on doing such a thing in the future and I would just add a 6 x 8 room to the grow room for that.

 

[gohydro]

Here ya go PHRoG

 

[email468]

to your drawing you should consider adding where ballasts are going to go - and some oscillating fans.

 

[PHRoG]

to your drawing you should consider adding where ballasts are going to go - and some oscillating fans.

This is on the lower level of the shop...The ballasts will be above the grow room with the cables wired through the top.

I've made some modifications and here is a new version.

I moved where the light fan will be to the back wall...The reason for this is so old air is being removed from the back of the room and pushed through a carbon filter...While fresh air in coming in from the front through a lab grade air filter...Makes venting easier and more even temp in the room.

I removed the rez because I have decided to go with a self contained aeroponics system in each tote...The reason for this is if one tote should get infected with something, it doesn't take out the other plants.

I want to do co2 induction, however I'm finding it hard to measure the ppm level in the room w/out a $500 tool.

 

[email468]

you should put some oscillating fans in there - they have some space saving ones that you can mount on the wall. But i think it was here on RIU, sorry i can't remember who it was, had a regular floor-mounted one but took the legs off and mounted directly on the ceiling!

I've never used CO2 for the reason you cite. I figured my next relatively-pricey upgrade (besides back-up bulbs) will be an RO filter which is still cheaper than quality CO2 injection. Might want to have a look at cheaper CO2 buckets or something like that since you have the lights for it.

 

[PHRoG]

you should put some oscillating fans in there - they have some space saving ones that you can mount on the wall. But i think it was here on RIU, sorry i can't remember who it was, had a regular floor-mounted one but took the legs off and mounted directly on the ceiling!

I've never used CO2 for the reason you cite. I figured my next relatively-pricey upgrade (besides back-up bulbs) will be an RO filter which is still cheaper than quality CO2 injection. Might want to have a look at cheaper CO2 buckets or something like that since you have the lights for it.

Ohh, I will have fans...I have plenty of those tower fans that go in the corner.