Plant Stretch Problems....Help!

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Ahhhh...I think you've hit on it. I DID read your posts but never realized that a plant GROWN from beans (as opposed to a clone) had a "sexual" maturity time. 6-8 weeks huh? Guess next time I'll need to do some serious training or pruning. 6-8 weeks of veg with no training or pruning ought to put them through my roof.
Yep, once you have raised a plant to sexual maturity, all the clones you take from it will also be sexually mature. Clones taken from a sexually mature, vegging mum can be flowered immediately or can be put under veg cycle lighting to turn them into replacement mums.

When pruning a prospective new mum, just take the growing tips off to force growth to divide. This will give you some nice fresh, thick stems to choose from for your next pass of cuttings when the new mum is sexually mature.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
no problem gohydro, happy that we could work this one out.

BTW, everything I say here is purely non-fictional. I use and condone the use of substances which shouldn't be illegal in the first place. ;)
 

gohydro

Well-Known Member
Hey Al....as this all falls in to place I have just a few more questions.

Should I assume that since I didn't let them "mature sexually" before inducing I had a period of veg growth (even though I was on 12/12) before they reverted, thus contributing to what I've previously referred to as "excessive stretch". If so can I toss out the 58-63 day estimate (for this strain)for mature buds after I went to 12/12?

Are there any other ramifications to inducing prior to it being considered "sexually mature"? Reduced yields? Improperly formed buds (Although my buds are potent and the trichs are cloudy the buds seem awful "airy" ), anything?


Thanks again Al....you're a wealth of knowledge. I vote sainthood although "Saint Al B Fuct" has a rather strange ring to it and might not sit well with the Pope. :mrgreen:
 

infamouse21

Well-Known Member
Soon as I figure out how your vegging mother was displaying flowers, (male or female), I'll answer that one.
when the 3 plants were under the 600wat mh vegging for 8 weeks all plants showed flowering signs( white hairs) in about 5 places. so we took 10 clones. then we took another 6 just before we started 12/12.
& about 1 weeks into flower the one plant went full male no hairs so he was gone (4th plant) . then the 1 female had alot of hairs as did the other 2, went hermie. just wondering if i took clones from a plant before it went hermi will they still be hermie? also could it be genetic?
but they all showed flowers while they were in veg still, 20/4 light

but anyways spend a few hours today picking ballz off of her, will they jsut keep comming back till she is fully done, or will the ballz stop?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Should I assume that since I didn't let them "mature sexually" before inducing I had a period of veg growth (even though I was on 12/12) before they reverted, thus contributing to what I've previously referred to as "excessive stretch". If so can I toss out the 58-63 day estimate (for this strain)for mature buds after I went to 12/12?
Yep, the finishing time as described by the breeder is dependent upon the plant being sexually mature at the time the flowering cycle begins. This estimate is most directly applicable to situations where there's a mother plant raised up to maturity and clones taken from that plant. The 58-63 days applies from when you start flowering rooted clones taken from known sex, sexually mature, vegging mother plants. I can't think of any breeders which include the time required to raise the plants from seed to sexual maturity in the flowering period quotation.

Are there any other ramifications to inducing prior to it being considered "sexually mature"? Reduced yields? Improperly formed buds (Although my buds are potent and the trichs are cloudy the buds seem awful "airy" ), anything?
Now you're pushing the envelope of what I know- to know definitively if flowering a plant before it is sexually mature will cause this fluffy buds condition, I'd have to do it (wrong) a few times. :D However, I do know that a plant flowered before sexual maturity will tend to soldier on, mainly in veg mode, gaining height through elongation of the mainstem.

If your plants are generally elongated, I'd expect that character to occur also in the bud formations. If your temps & RH are right (24-26C, 30-50%RH), the next culprit is flowering while still sexually immature. Excessively high temps and RH can cause elongation. With that, I'd expect lowered yields and poor bud density aka fluffy or 'popcorn' buds.

Also check your room for light leaks during flowering area lights-off. Leaks (and peeking with non-safe lights during what should be the dark hours) can cause elongation and even hermaphrodism. If you are tempted to peek during dark hours, use a green LED garden safelight.

If you're getting smokeable buds at all at this point, call yourself pretty lucky. :)

Thanks again Al....you're a wealth of knowledge. I vote sainthood although "Saint Al B Fuct" has a rather strange ring to it and might not sit well with the Pope. :mrgreen:
While I appreciate your sentiment, it won't sit well with me, either! If you look in the encyclopaedia under 'militant atheist,' I think there's probably a picture of me. ;) Perspective, mon. I'm no wizard, I've just been doing this long enough to have made most of the mistakes once or twice. ;)
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
when the 3 plants were under the 600wat mh vegging for 8 weeks all plants showed flowering signs( white hairs) in about 5 places. so we took 10 clones. then we took another 6 just before we started 12/12.
& about 1 weeks into flower the one plant went full male no hairs so he was gone (4th plant) . then the 1 female had alot of hairs as did the other 2, went hermie. just wondering if i took clones from a plant before it went hermi will they still be hermie? also could it be genetic?
but they all showed flowers while they were in veg still, 20/4 light

but anyways spend a few hours today picking ballz off of her, will they jsut keep comming back till she is fully done, or will the ballz stop?
wow, that's a weird problem. Presuming no long power failures, bad lamp tube or ballast causing cycling on/off or timer problems that may have been causing the light to be winking on and off, it sounds like you have some bad DNA. I've also seen excessive nute strength or excessively low pH cause hermaphrodism too, but only really displaying in flowering plants.

If you're sure conditions are OK, it's bad DNA- the condition won't resolve, it will replicate along with the new cuttings. Get new, known good DNA in some beans from a good breeder & start over.
 

gohydro

Well-Known Member
Hi again Al,

I think you may have misunderstood me. I never thought the time stated by the breeders included the time to raise from seed to the end of the flowering period. I always thought that time frame started the day the lights went to 12/12 regardless of the veg period. Funny thing though....I've grown from beans many a time and the estimate for maturity by the breeders is usually fairly close (as evidenced by cloudy trichs) to what I've been getting.

As for light leaks there are none and I don't "peek". I learned that lesson many years ago when I got a batch of hermies.

Lucky if I get "smokable buds"? :evil: Now, now Al....don't be so condescending. I'm not a newbie. Past grows have yielded good weight (although I'm greedy and always want more, remember?) of some great weed.

I am now weighing my options regarding the next grow. If you're saying that a clone cut from a flowering mother will take weeks to revert to veg and then back to flower..... I'm wondering which is the better alternative......wait 4-6 weeks until my next beans are "sexually mature" and then clone....or..... take some now and use the 4-6 week period to revert to veg and then clone.

OK..I'll remove your name from the Sainthood ballot I mailed out. Militant atheists have no place in the Vatican. :mrgreen:
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infamouse21

Well-Known Member
well got a gaxaxy 600digital ballast no power problems. nuts jsut went up to 700ppm so not high thier, guess u are probably right bad DNA.
dont know what seed it was something we came acroos.
if u live in the states are u going to canada 2 get seeds or do u order them?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hi again Al,

I think you may have misunderstood me. I never thought the time stated by the breeders included the time to raise from seed to the end of the flowering period.
Don't take offence- sometimes I volunteer information as it occurs to me while I'm writing something. Has no bearing whatsoever in what I think of you or your abilities. Also, when writing in a forum post, it's often more convenient and efficient to forward suggest information than to ask about it, wait for a reply then craft a response.

Also remember, you're not the only person reading the forum. Someone may happen across the thread who doesn't have as much information as you do.

Lucky if I get "smokable buds"? :evil: Now, now Al....don't be so condescending. I'm not a newbie. Past grows have yielded good weight (although I'm greedy and always want more, remember?) of some great weed.
Never intended to be condescending, sorry if you took it that way. Incidentally, it's a lot more obvious when I AM intending to be condescending. If I'm going to go to the effort to be condescending, by god, you're gonna be condescended to- and know it! :D

I am now weighing my options regarding the next grow. If you're saying that a clone cut from a flowering mother will take weeks to revert to veg and then back to flower..... I'm wondering which is the better alternative......wait 4-6 weeks until my next beans are "sexually mature" and then clone....or..... take some now and use the 4-6 week period to revert to veg and then clone.
What's with the alarm quotes around "sexually mature"? Do you not believe this is a necessary step? It's a really basic one, especially for a grower who claims some experience, to have overlooked.

4-6 weeks is 4-6 weeks, whichever way you care to go.
 

gohydro

Well-Known Member
Ok...now that we have that resolved I'll forge ahead. The quotes around sexually mature had no hidden meaning other than to quote you. I fully believe that you are right. It explains a lot of things as I start to put 2 and 2 together. You're obviously an intelligent guy...(whoops, militant atheist) and I'd like to think that I am fairly intelligent too. Nothing, but nothing is half-ass or rigged in my systems....everything is first class and my approach is methodical. The whole sexually mature thing baffeled me in that there are so few people responding on your level. When I first posted, NOBODY except you questioned the mature thing. Everyone was talking about lighting, nutes, etc.....all of which I was fairly sure were sufficient. As I read your first posts I didn't pick up on PREflower. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming that you thought you were corresponding with a newbie, or, as stated in your reply, these postings are for all to read. I just assumed you were trying to provide an answer that would help us all. I just breezed over the PRE part.

That being said...gimme a few minutes and I'll have some pix.:hump:
 

gohydro

Well-Known Member
Al...here's what prompted this conversation to begin with. See those little PVC racks attached to the containers? Those were to support a screen and my babies were just below the top of those PVC tubes exactly 5 weeks ago. Now you see why it was such a concern.
 

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gvega187

Well-Known Member
yeah, same energy, but hermos in my experience can put more into veg growth due to lack of budding....they wil stretch. It has been some months since I responded to this forum...they dont look hermaphrodite.
 

blueybong

Well-Known Member
I hope you all don't mind me asking Al a question.

Al, you stated: "
Sexual maturity (which I've defined twice in recent posts; kindly read what I've written so I don't have to say it several times!) is defined as when preflowers begin to appear at the nodes. This requires about 6-8 wks of vegging after sprouting from beans."

My seeds sprouted on 12.21.08 and on 1.11.09 (three weeks later) I had stipules at the 4th node with one Calyx. Being a newbie I posted a pic and asked if this was a preflower female and a number of growers said it was a preflower female. So on 1.12.09 I transition my nutes for three/four days and on 1.15.09 I went 12/12 with blooming nutes.

Was this plant sexually mature?

From sprout to preflower was only three weeks. Is this uncommon?

I'm asking because I'm still learning. :bigjoint:

Many thanks!!
 
i've have huge problems with stretching myself! eveyone like to either cut the top off or bend (supercrop). i like to bend, but there is a better way to stop your plants from getting huge.
1. your veg and bloom cycle will have seperate containers or rockwool cubes, example; when vegging use a 4x4 cube and trans plant into a 6x6 cube for budding.
2.3 to 5 days before trans planting into budding start using your budding formula while still in 18/6 lighting.
3. place plants into budding, and cut back on the nitrogen until white hairs appear, once white hairs appear nitrogen can start to be added again.
Message; cutting back on the nitrogen in the begining of budding is ONLY a technique!! nitrogen in the budding stage is VERY IMPORTANT. be sure to replace the nitrogen once white hair appear!!
4. while cutting back the nitrogen use a PK nutrient (hammerhead by AD, budblood by AD) to activate the budding cycle faster.

this should make your world alot easier for people growing in small areas!

Please let me know how this tech. work for you!

Mauvefarmer
 

justizin

Active Member
I've found that in reducing stretch, it really helps to use MH for veg, and even during the first 1-2 weeks of flower, during which the most stretching tends to occur.

I just flipped a set of indicas and hybrids to HPS with colas in full bloom after a couple of weeks, and the plants are retaining their shape well.

Flipping for 24h+ of darkness can certainly help, remember that darkness is more important than light at this phase, you don't really want the plants focusing on producing lots of new cells until they're showing. Longer periods of darkness can also help near the end for some strains, it's difficult to predict.

I have seen significant stretching in reportedly indica-dominant strains, esp Kush-dominant, which this method can't seem to help. Some of the stretchier strains are better for outdoor.

Along with keeping MH for some time, I cut the top 2/3 of the plant [everything above the bottom 6-10 branches] to make clones, and let this bit veg for a week or so before flipping. Any calyx will become a branch and when you drastically change the ratio of root to top mass like this, some seemingly weak branches near the bottom can shoot up and become strong with good fans.

I am curious if anyone knows about the different stretches the plant goes through. I know that with younger plants, e.g. clones and young mothers, they stretch if they don't have enough light, no matter how close the light source is. This does not seem to be the case in flowering, as they will stretch out under multiple 1000w HPS, which put out more light than MH, while under MH you will see denser formation of new nodes.
 
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