13/11 vs 12/12 ??????

[Zaehet Strife]

just wondering... ive been flowering for 29 days now and i just had an idea that maybe if i turn my lights on 13/11, it might increase my yeild..but could take longer to flower maybe im not sure. i looked some stuff up on it but i cant find much, and i wont change my lights until im sure i have some legit experienced feedback. anyone tried 13/11 and noticed any difference? im growing indica

 

[homebrewer]

An experienced grower wouldn't look to his light-cycle to increase his yield, he'd concentrate on his environment and proper feeding.

 

[legallyflying]

I'm going to try a longer rest cycle during my next veg.. nothing major 16/8 and see if I get better root development.

 

[lowerarchy]

You'd probably increase your yield on a g/kw baisis more by going to 11/13 instead. Plants can't photosynthesize efficiently the whole 12 hours anyway...

But also what homebrewer said.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

thanks guys!

 

[MeJuana]

I am considering 10.5 on and 13.5 off but I was a little timid so this run I am 5 weeks in on 11.5 on 12.5 off but all is well and the buds are swellin up fine.. I went and hunted down something DJ Short wrote this is third party copy/paste but like way cool dudes

Something DJ Short wrote.





After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Indoors, the lights typically range from a few inches to several feet from the plant. As the plant grows taller, its physical relationship to the bulb's angle of light changes considerably. Most indoor grow rooms have relatively low ceilings, therefore, raising the bulbs may maintain a similar angle of light early on, but eventually the angle changes. The same differences may be noted among plants directly below the bulb and the plants off to the side of the room farther away from the bulb.

Circular light shuttles tend to emulate the arctic summer and create a confusing signal completely unknown to the equatorial Sativa. Straight-track overhead light shuttles are more conducive to inducing the Sativa phenotype.

Many indoor growers try to get their budding plants as close to the light source as possible. Though this may increase bulk production of both bud and trichome, I find that this practice tends to destroy many of the finer aromatic qualities of the herb.

Buds too close to the light tend to express nothing beyond the lower lemon/lime aromas of the fruity spectrum. Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

Something akin to a gymnasium building with high ceilings and super 5000W lights hung far from the growing plants, set at a Sativa-tweaked photoperiod, would be the ultimate indoor grow-op to coax Sativa phenotypes.

Sweet spot fantasy

Nothing will ever rival the great outdoor sweet spots for quality cannabis production. Hopefully, someday, somewhere, someone will be daring and lucky enough to get away with re-establishing some of the great genetic lines in their specific region of origin sweet spots.

Equatorial Sativa varieties are of interest for quality herb production (Thailand, Oaxaca, Colombia, Central Africa, etc.) as the Indica zones are more renowned for hashish production. Parts of Nepal tend to produce both excellent hashish and fine Sativa buds, with some plants reportedly living longer than two years!

I hope that I am able to live long enough to once again experience the joy associated with the fine herbal products from the great regional sweet spots of near ancient lore. It has been a long time and I am looking forward to the day.

 

[john pickle]

yeah im doing 10-11/13-14 im not exactly sure but its somewhere in there and my girls are happier than shit in a rectum

 

[Zaehet Strife]

ty so much for the info mejuana, i really really appreciate it man

 

[homebrewer]

I am considering 10.5 on and 13.5 off but I was a little timid so this run I am 5 weeks in on 11.5 on 12.5 off but all is well and the buds are swellin up fine.. I went and hunted down something DJ Short wrote this is third party copy/paste but like way cool dudes

Something DJ Short wrote.





After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Equatorial regions see 12/12 year round, so why does he suggest 11/13 for flower? If anything, he has it backwards with his indica/sativa light cycles.

 

[mr.bond]

Equatorial regions do NOT see 12/12 year round. While they vary less in seasonal changes than say, the arctic regions, they still vary. 11/13 is much closer to what the equatorial regions experience. Otherwise the sun would hover over the equator all year long, which is not the case.

Mr. Bond

 

[Homergrown]

.......................I was wrong so I editted my post.

 

[DrFever]

IMO growing indica i found best results last week of veg introduce flowering agents half dosage day of switching to flower left lights off 24 hrs, then went on 12 / 12 with a maintained temp of 65 lights on and with lights off temp drop to 60 humidity levels 50
3 days into this there flowering like crazy i believe that running your room like nature, Fall is colder temps but the sun is still fairly hot
so think of it that way tempuratures people thats the ticket

thinking most people do not have a really controlled room as to control everything so imo running 12 / 12 would be benificial as temps don't drop to drastically in the 12 hrs of dark im sure many will say by the time 12 hrs of dark passes there rooms could be in below 60 degrees if grow rooms are recieving proper fresh air from out side

now goin to 11/ 13 i have never tryed this nor care 2

 

[rowlman]

...what if you flower 10/10....if your plants think 10/10 is a full day, then you will gain 1 day every 6 days(with the extra 4 hours each day)...so a 60 day flower will be complete in 50 days...this is a thought i've been pondering over for a while now...seems to make sense in my twisted mind...idk

 

[mae]

Very interesting thought, rowlman.

Might be worth a try.

 

[homebrewer]

Equatorial regions do NOT see 12/12 year round. While they vary less in seasonal changes than say, the arctic regions, they still vary. 11/13 is much closer to what the equatorial regions experience. Otherwise the sun would hover over the equator all year long, which is not the case.

Mr. Bond

They do not have seasonal changes at the equator and they DO have 12/12 year-round. Have you ever been to it? There are rainy seasons and dry seasons, there are hot and hotter seasons, but you do not see spring or fall or summer. Don't take my word for it, read the links below on equatorial day length:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equator

Such places also have a theoretical constant 12 hours of day and night throughout the year, though in practice there are variations of a few minutes due to the effects of atmospheric refraction and because sunrise and sunset are measured from the time the edge of the Sun's disc is on the horizon, rather than its centre.

http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/whys/day_equator.htm

Question: Is the length of day and night equal at the equator?
Answer: There are two answers depending on how you define sunrise and sunset at sea level. The complicating problem is the atmosphere which bends the sun's rays so that we see the sun sphere before it actually is on the horizon.
If you do not consider the atmosphere's influence and calculate sunrise and sunset when the true solar disk is on the horizon, then day and night are equal on the equator. Since the actual difference is small, many models assume 12 hours for each.
However, those who calculate the true times (US Naval Observatory, Greenwich Royal Observatory) add a few minutes to sunset and subtract a few for sunrise to account for the atmospheric refraction. Thus, the equatorial day is 6-8 minutes longer than the night.
The actual difference varies a bit because the refractive properties also change with season and other weather/climate conditions.
The day also lengthens with respect to the night as you ascend from sea level because you can see the horizon at a further distance with altitude.

http://rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon/rainforest_ecology.html

[FONT=arial,verdana,sans-serif][FONT=arial,verdana,sans-serif]This intensity is due to the consistent day length on the equator: 12 hours a day, 365 days per year (regions away from the equator have days of varying length). This consistent sunlight provides the essential energy necessary to power the forest via photosynthesis.[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[legallyflying]

Longer light cycles in flower work. Period. Regardless of regional genetics, plants will photosynthesize at favorable rates for 20 hours. They still create starches after 20 hours but at a slightly lower rate.

Our hybrids start flowering at 14/10. Two weeks later we go 13/11 then 12/12 and the last two weeks 10/14.

The more gradual the shift the better. Google plant circadian rythm. There is a Google scholar doc that measures leaf tissue gas exchange as an index to photosynth.

Good info above about terps, light distance and quality. We run 16" from 1k bulbs until the last two weeks then cut the power down to 600 or 400.

More light, more carbs, more growth. Nothing mysterious here

 

[legallyflying]

Btw. Love Dr fevers quote "proper fresh air from outside"

Lol. The only time our plants see outside air is when I briefly open the door.

Does proper mean full of bugs and mold spores?

 

[Gquebed]

There is a thread in here about the gas lamp method where flowering is done on a 6/18 routine and it is said to increase yield and it helps the girls finish faster. And theres grows online that appear to support it so... i think going 13/11 is going the wrong way.

When i flip im going to go 10/14 and see whats happens....

 

[legallyflying]

Here is a thought.. do you think... just by chance, that plants have evolved over 10's or thousands of years to take advantage and maximize their reproductive success given natural conditions? Gass lamp, ass lamp

 

[homebrewer]

Here is a thought.. do you think... just by chance, that plants have evolved over 10's or thousands of years to take advantage and maximize their reproductive success given natural conditions? Gass lamp, ass lamp

We're not dealing with 'natural conditions' indoors. We're also not concerned with 'reproductive success' either. Maybe your point is more in regards to performance, growth, or yield, but that still doesn't mean that things can't be manipulated indoors to better fit our goals.