help - white widow base of stem losing strength

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
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The base has turned brown, but the plant seems to be growing fine.

have absolutely no clue what may have caused this. any suggestions to help me lead a direction to figure out what is going wrong with this guy.

it's white widow about 3 weeks old.

thanks
 

Brick Top

New Member
Damping off disease.


Damping-off

The single term used to describe underground, soil line, or crown rots of seedlings due to unknown causes is damping-off . The term actually covers several soil borne diseases of plants and seed borne fungi.



Rhizoctonia root rot (Rhizoctonia solani) is a fungal disease which causes damping-off of seedlings and foot rot of cuttings. Infection occurs in warm to hot temperatures and moderate moisture levels. The fungi is found in all natural soils and can survive indefinitely. Infected plants often have slightly sunken lesions on the stem at or below the soil line. Transfer of the fungi to the germination room or greenhouse is easily accomplished by using outdoor gardening tools inside or vice versa. The germination room should not be used for mixing potting soils or transplanting seedlings as a general rule.



Pythium Root Rot (Pythium spp.) is similar to Rhizoctonia in that it causes damping-off of seedlings and foot rot of cuttings. However, infection occurs in cool, wet, poorly-drained soils, and by overwatering. Infection results in wet odorless rots. When severe, the lower portion of the stem can become slimy and black. Usually, the soft to slimy rotted outer portion of the root can be easily separated from the inner core. Species of Pythium can survive for several years in soil and plant refuse.

Phytophthora root rot (Phytophthora spp.) are usually associated with root rots of established plants but are also involved in damping-off. These species enter the root tips and cause a water-soaked brown to black rot similar to Pythium. These fungi survive indefinitely in soil and plant debris.



Black root rot (Thielaviopsis basicola) is a problem of established plants. It does not occur in strongly acid soils with a pH of 4.5 to 5.5. It usually infects the lateral roots where they just emerge from the taproot. The diseased area turns dark brown, and is quite dry. The fungi survive for 10 years or more in soil.



Miscellaneous fungi causing similar symptoms include Sclerotinia (white mold), Sclerotium rolfsii, Macrophomina phaseoli, some species of Botrytis (gray mold), Aphonomyces, Fusarium, Cylindrocladium, and others. Hence the need for the collective term known as damping-off.
Symptoms of Damping-off:

Seeds may be infected as soon as moisture penetrates the seed coat or a bit later as the radicle begins to extend, all of which rot immediately under the soil surface (pre-emergence damping-off). This condition results in a poor, uneven stand of seedlings, often confused with low seed viability. Cotyledons may break the soil surface only to whither and die or healthy looking seedlings may suddenly fall over (post-emergence damping-off). Infection results in lesions at or below the soil line. The seedling will discolor or wilt suddenly, or simply collapse and die. Weak seedlings are especially susceptible to attack by one or more fungi when growing conditions are only slightly unfavorable. Damping-off is easily confused with plant injury caused by insect feeding, excessive fertilization, high levels of soluble salts, excessive heat or cold, excessive or insufficient soil moisture, or chemical toxicity in air or soil.



Above ground symptoms of root rot include stunting, low vigor, or wilting on a warm day. Foliage of such plants may yellow and fall prematurely starting with the oldest leaves. The roots of a diseased plant will have some shade of brown or black and evidence of water-soaking. Healthy roots are fibrous appearing and are usually white or tan in color. These symptoms are easily confused with severe mite, aphid, scale infestations, or root-feeding by nematodes or insect larvae. Environmental factors such as accumulated salts in the soil, insufficient light or nitrogen, potbound roots, cold drafts, etc. can be eliminated only by examination of the roots.
Damping-off diseases can be prevented:


  • Purchase disease free plants and seeds. Know your supplier. Do not be afraid of fungicidal coatings on seeds which will be direct sown out doors in cold soils, such as corn and peas. Seed borne disease can also be avoided by soaking the seeds for 15 minutes in a bleach soak (one teaspoon per quart of water) prior to sowing.
  • Use sterile well drained soil mediums. See article on soil mixes. Try to maintain a soil mix pH at the low end of the average scale, i.e. 6.4 pH is less susceptible to root rot than a pH of 7.5. Commercially prepared germination mixes usually have a pH around 5.5. As you water the seed pots and your seedlings with tap water (which in many municipalities is quite alkaline), the pH in your pots gradually increases as does the susceptibility to damping-off diseases. Know the pH of your tap water, and condition it if necessary to maintain a lower pH while the plants are still in the germination room. I prefer the use of vinegar at the rate of one tablespoon per gallon of water.
  • Plants must not have their crowns below the soil line. Seeds must not be covered more than 4 times the thickness of the seed.
  • Use plant containers with drainage holes, water from the bottom only, and avoid excess watering. Do not allow pots to stand in water as excess water cannot drain and the roots will be starved for oxygen bringing all growth to a halt.
  • Avoid overcrowding and overfeeding of plants. It is important to maintain constant levels of growth through proper lighting and complete control of the growing environment.
  • Avoid working with plants (taking cuttings or transplanting) when the soil is wet. Do not use water from ditches or drainage ponds or rain barrels in the germination room.
  • Avoid spreading soil from infested areas or tools which have been used out of doors. Disinfect tools and containers with one part bleach in four parts water or with 70 percent rubbing alcohol (isopropyl).
  • In the germination room, sow all your seeds on the surface of the media, then cover the seeds to necessary depth with a material which is less likely to harbor fungi than the media itself. Use one or more of the following seed toppings instead of soil mix:
    • milled sphagnum moss
    • chick grit
    • course sand or fine aquarium gravel
    • composted hardwood bark (steamed)
  • In the germination room, mist seedlings in communal pots or flats once or twice per day with water containing a known anti-fungal agent such as:
    • Captan (or other approved fungicide) especially if walls or floors are damp, or
    • Cheshunt compound, a copper/aluminum formulation, or
    • chamomile tea, or
    • clove tea, or
    • a one-time light dusting of powdered cinnamon on the soil surface, or
    • a one-time light dusting of powdered charcoal on the soil surface, or
    • if stinging nettle is endemic in your area, make a fermented infusion to use like clove tea. These last five actions are suggested by sufficient anecdotal evidence to prove the existence of a low level of fungicidal activity. I would not hesitate to use them in germination environments which have no history of damping-off diseases.
  • Rotate plantings on a 2 to 3 year schedule using plants from different families in order to starve out existing pathogens.
  • Provide constant air movement not tied in with the light timer. Air should move freely 24 hours per day, but not directly aimed at the plants. This helps the seedlings to aspirate, and excess soil moisture to wick. If you do everything else right but do not provide plenty of air movement, you will still get damping-off.
 

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
will it be okay though? the infected area now sits above the soil line. we think the crown may have been buried.

any suggestions on making it survive?

its growing in coco cour and purlite. letting the soil dry before watering with nutrients.
 

Brick Top

New Member
will it be okay though? the infected area now sits above the soil line. we think the crown may have been buried.

any suggestions on making it survive?

its growing in coco cour and purlite. letting the soil dry before watering with nutrients.
If it is damping off disease, which it sure appears to be, I have never known of a seedling to survive it, so you might want to wait until it draws it's last drop of moisture and then dig a grave, toss it in and sing "Abide With Me," fill in the grave and start all over again.

I hope I am wrong ... but I really doubt that I am.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
You could always cut it and treat it as a clone - if it is likely to die through the "damping off" you have nothing to lose by trying to grow a new set of roots for it.
 

grow space

Well-Known Member
yea man, monitor it closely, if it gets better, leave it, but it might not stay intact , so be ready for some cloning action !
 

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
I would think that i would need to lower the soil level because one of the causes is that the crown may be buried. Also, do you think adding botanicare aquashield would help?
 

Brick Top

New Member
You could always cut it and treat it as a clone - if it is likely to die through the "damping off" you have nothing to lose by trying to grow a new set of roots for it.
The problem is that it is a fungus and cutting it off and attempting to close it is not an assurance that you will remove enough of the stem to remove all the fungus. It could of course be attempted but I have never known of anyone ever saving a seedling with damping off disease.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Toss it. Why risk infecting other plants with an active spore? Damping off disease isn't an accident. BT posted an encyclopedia of information for you regarding how to prevent it from recurring and you want to save it?
 

Brick Top

New Member
Add another inch of soil and dont overwater. If it is damping off trying to clone is all you can do.

Burying a fungus under soil and then watering less will not kill the fungus. It is called damping off disease but that does not mean it was just over-watered and burying the infected portion and allowing it to dry out will not kill off the fungus. The plants vascular system dies, the plant is choked off from moisture and nutrients. There is no repair for a destroyed vascular system.

Damping off disease is common to many types of plants, ornamental and food crop plants included. Right now the only way to combat it is to create conditions that will minimize the chances of it occurring. There is some chemical that works, that kills the fungus and can save a plant, if it is caught early enough, but it has not been able to get FDA approval because it is rather toxic so even if it were available to the public it would not be something that someone would want to use on something they would eventually ingest in one way or another.

To date there are only preventative actions that can be taken to keep damping off disease from occurring, or at least lessening it's occurrence, but there is not a cure available to the public.
 

dudeoflife

Well-Known Member
I would think that i would need to lower the soil level because one of the causes is that the crown may be buried. Also, do you think adding botanicare aquashield would help?
LOL. That's why the plant is dying-- you keep wanting to add stuff to it!

FORGET AQUASHIELD -- h20, for that matter!

Less is more. Let that sucker dry up a bit.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I would think that i would need to lower the soil level because one of the causes is that the crown may be buried. Also, do you think adding botanicare aquashield would help?
No, but you can waste your time and product in an attempt if you wish.

You could also try sacrificing a virgin too if you wanted .... but that would only be a waste of a good virgin .. and we need all of them that we have ... since they are in such short supply these days.

These all fall into the category of damping off disease:

Rhizoctonia root rot (Rhizoctonia solani) is a fungal disease which causes damping-off of seedlings and foot rot of cuttings. Infection occurs in warm to hot temperatures and moderate moisture levels. The fungi is found in all natural soils and can survive indefinitely. Infected plants often have slightly sunken lesions on the stem at or below the soil line. Transfer of the fungi to the germination room or greenhouse is easily accomplished by using outdoor gardening tools inside or vice versa. The germination room should not be used for mixing potting soils or transplanting seedlings as a general rule.


Pythium Root Rot (Pythium spp.) is similar to Rhizoctonia in that it causes damping-off of seedlings and foot rot of cuttings. However, infection occurs in cool, wet, poorly-drained soils, and by overwatering. Infection results in wet odorless rots. When severe, the lower portion of the stem can become slimy and black. Usually, the soft to slimy rotted outer portion of the root can be easily separated from the inner core. Species of Pythium can survive for several years in soil and plant refuse.

Phytophthora root rot (Phytophthora spp.) are usually associated with root rots of established plants but are also involved in damping-off. These species enter the root tips and cause a water-soaked brown to black rot similar to Pythium. These fungi survive indefinitely in soil and plant debris.


There are no products that kill the fungi. Burying a plant deeper or raising it or watering it less will not kill the fungus.

What you have is 'dead plant walking.'

Get rid of it ... get rid of anything and everything that has come in contact with it. Sterilize your grow room like an operating room, and then repeat the process. Sterilize any and all tools or equipment that were even just close to the infected plant.

Start all over with all new everything that you can possibly afford to replace and sterilize everything else like you suspect it was exposed to the very worst, most vile disgusting filthy dirty disease ridden thing in the entire world ........ you know ....... Paris Hilton's pussy.
 

Brick Top

New Member
You could always cut it and treat it as a clone - if it is likely to die through the "damping off" you have nothing to lose by trying to grow a new set of roots for it.

No .. you have nothing to lose ... other than to spread the fungus, fungus that can live for years or in some cases and in others indefinitely, to your cloning area so future clones can die from the same fungal disease.

You have to know when to hold them and you have to know when to fold them .... this is a time to fold them.

You are talking about one plant, one seedling .. that's all. It is not worth wasting time and effort and materials and accepting all the future risks that would go along with a futile attempt to save one seedling.
 

grow space

Well-Known Member
No .. you have nothing to lose ... other than to spread the fungus, fungus that can live for years or in some cases and in others indefinitely, to your cloning area so future clones can die from the same fungal disease.

You have to know when to hold them and you have to know when to fold them .... this is a time to fold them.

You are talking about one plant, one seedling .. that's all. It is not worth wasting time and effort and materials and accepting all the future risks that would go along with a futile attempt to save one seedling.
Yes, but we cannot know this for sure..it can also be perfectly fine in the future and u have nothing to lose...practice your cloning skill mate!
 

Brick Top

New Member
Yes, but we cannot know this for sure..it can also be perfectly fine in the future and u have nothing to lose...practice your cloning skill mate!

Sure you can .. and in doing so you can spread a fungus that can last for years into your cloning area resulting in clone after clone after clone dying from the same fungal infection.

Is one single seedling really worth taking that risk?

It sure wouldn't be too me.
 

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
some concerns, the plant has survived. we didnt nutrient it for a week then put cinamon on it. but now it is growing some concerns.

let me know if you have any advice...


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