Claw Leaf.. Damnit..

[pataloc]

My system:
HydroHut Silver 4X8
10" MaxFan Cooling Aircooled Hood
600w hps for current Veg stage
Ebb n flow w/Hydroton
PPM 300 GH Flora Nova
PH 5.7-6.0
Temps 65-80
Problem:

5th grow, had this same problem but I chalked it up to not using a PH meter (used color thingy) I bought the meter dialed in PH and it disappread mostly but not fully.

Now I cloned off my bubblegum mom and the clones looked awesome, they were in a clone tray with perfect care 2 weeks after rooting, first week no claw, second week begining claw. I harvested, put them in them system and then they clawed like hell in 3 days. Here is a pic of two plants and a leaf close up.

My thoughts, I was using PH down from pool store and I found out it was Sodium Bisulfate, so I think maybe its a Salt Toxicity issue. I started to flush them with pure PH 5.8 water, but was using the pool stuff to PH, today I got some GH Down and continued the flush with around 100 PPM.

Any advice much appreciated.

 

[reggaerican]

looks like your trying to burn them.. flush with plain ph'd water and lower your nutes.. oops your doing that!! so just be patient i think your on the right track
you might be right could be salts and also could be clorine, are you letting the water set overnight ?b4 feeding

 

[Brick Top]

'The Claw" is caused by nitrogen toxicity. Nitrogen toxicity will damage/destroy a plants vascular system. Water uptake slows down from the vascular breakdown of the plants and leaves will take on a dryish look and feel, they will normally still stand up rather than droop but they will curl down like if you held your hand out and curled your fingers down.

Most times nitrogen toxicity begins in the vegetative growth stage. People will pour on the nutes, right up until they switch to flowering, and then change to flowering ferts. But the plants will not have used up the full amount of nitrogen fed to them while in veg and when the plants begin flowering and do not want or need as much nitrogen, even though less is then being fed to them, the combination of what has built up in the soil and what it being fed to them is too much resulting in vascular damage.

If people feed heavily during veg they need to back down on their ferts in the second half of veg and or flush before beginning flowering, especially if they are growing a more nute sensitive strain or the nitrogen buildup can become a problem.

 

[reggaerican]

you tha man brick top.. a tru man of wisdom

 

[boati]

Try using only pH water no nutes. 6.3 will be the magical number.It was when I had that happen 16 years ago. I looked in the journal I keep of daily activity. Its now reaching 2300 Pages.Amazing the information one accumulates in time.Your plants look a little limey as well so It might not be nitogen toxicity. At any rate Rinse for a few days add some nutiboost if you can find it.Real good stuff for stressed plants.But be aware that it lowers the pH so make sure you check after adding.

 

[boati]

Raise your pH to 6.3. And read this article.http://growingweedindoors.info/refluctuating-ph

 

[Brick Top]

Your plants look a little limey as well so It might not be nitogen toxicity. At any rate Rinse for a few days add some nutiboost if you can find it.Real good stuff for stressed plants.But be aware that it lowers the pH so make sure you check after adding.

In more advanced or more severe cases of 'the claw' there will be an overall very dark color to the leaves but in a mild case or in the early stages there will not always be a darkening.

You might be correct and it might not be nitrogen toxicity, but if you look close you can seen some slight tip burn, even on a few upper curled leaves, so that still does point to the possibility of excess nitrogen.

One question I would like to know the answer to is what sort of light were the pictures taken in? The color of the light pictures are taken in, like natural light or MH light or HPS light or some combination of one or another or either or both with a flash added, can alter the look of the actual color of the leaves and make a visual diagnosis by picture going by color of leaves more difficult.

 

[withoutAchance]

seen the claw before nitrogen for sure, will also make hte plant dark green more than it should and when sever it will go black.

and your using bloom nutes for veg?

 

[pataloc]

Well like I said I have a PPM meter and these plants never got above 600 PPM, a week of 300PPM & 2 shots of 500-600.. The pictures were took under a CFL, I didnt think I would get a good pic underr the HPS.

I also thought about the nitrogen claw but figured I didnt give them much nutes. I admitidly do not let the water sit overnight...
Ima continue to flush and ill raise the PH to 6.3 to see if it helps.

Any other questions or suggestions?

 

[pataloc]

bumpy

 

[pataloc]

Ok so I have continued to flush and the day I posted I put 15 more freshly rooted cuttings in the same tray, today two plants have twisty leaves, mag def so I added some epsom salts to the res. But ONE NEW clone is now showing claw leaf and deformity of leaves, how can this be, i havent even gave them nutes!

So I know how I have fucked up, I did not clean the hydroton in my system, I thought with a 2 week flush while finishing flowering they would be good to go. I reused the hydroton from the tray but not the net pots.

Do I continue my flush or transplant the plants into fresh 6" rockwool? 14 plants in the hydroton for almost a week and the others for three days..

one thing I dont relly see the ppm rising in the res, some plants are returning to normalish grow others are looking a lil worse..

 

[pataloc]

Ok so I decided to transplant into 6" rockwool and scrub there trays, most of the orginals are starting to get normal growth, a couple still look like there hurting.. They started getting pretty lime green with yellowing of the bottom leaves an I took that as time to add some nutes(200ppm), plus the new clones were starting to get yellowing of there bottom leaves as well.

nearest I can tell it was the result of pushing there nute levels and my dumb mistake of not properly cleaning my medium, wich gave them there overdose and caused alota problems..

Thanks to everyone who helped.

 

[pataloc]

OK OK so this as a hell of a mind fucker, lol.

So here is what happend, all grows were good intill 3 things changed

1. used hydroton
2. new hydrohut silver tent
3. milwauke multi meter

So i had calibrated the meter and it seemed to work, read both 4 and 7 soultion correct, I questioned it but my wife chimed in saying that it read RO water correct, 7.0 0PPM.
So i eliminated this, then I got to thinking since the ph of RO was 7.0 and it read the 7.0 Calabration soulution correct that doesnt mean it will read anything inbetween correctly.

So down to my hydro store I went, bought a chemical ph tester, came back checked a glass of tap, 7.2 on my PH meter, tested with chemical tested very blue, meaning around 8.0.
Next i checked my res., meter says 6.9, So now I used the chemical tester to ph my water 2 days ago and now the plants look 95% better.

Was Low PH all along.

 

[Tla]

I have a plant that is doing the same thing I also don't believe it is nitrogen deficiancy but have no idea what else it is.