I went to my hydro store to look at a different nutrient line and they talked me out of buying anything.. Crazy right??.. Well that was a first... The guy said he's using sensi bloom right now and is having great results wanted me to up my ppm before I switch to something new. He wants me to follow the feeding chart on the back bottle. Said it might seem a little high but back it down from there. So I guess Im going to try it out for a a couple more days and see if I get my ppm up and if there if I see any changes.
Nut Burn, Cal Mag Or Light Burn?
- Thread starter krisko
- Start date
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Pretty much exactly what I said. Sounds like a pretty smart guy. If he was trying to lead you astray he'd have sold you something else.
Just run the right levels before you try and make the claim that their system is bunk. I totally agree.
Just run the right levels before you try and make the claim that their system is bunk. I totally agree.
max316420
Well-Known Member
Actually I run levels at 3.25 teaspoons per gallon of sensi bloom a and b, 1 1\2 teaspoons per 5 gallons of big bud and that's it. My ppm is very high but not seeing any nute but but actually seeing what I think is a mag def. RO water, 1200 ppm co2, 1000 watts of light and so on. So tell me this, Why am a showing a def in weeks 3-4 and why does their labels of ingredients keep switching up? And by the way I have used Fox farm line up (without these problems) GH products (without these problems) and even MG back in the day (without these problems) If you think ive just used it once and now bashing them because "I don't know what I'm doing" your WRONG.... Please explain this to me? On the old jar of BigBud they listed their magnesium content of 7% and a ton of other things in it and now I just bought a new jar of it and it's only listing 3-4 ingredients minus the Magnesium??? whats up with that?? Now i've been doing my research on their bud candy and on all websites that I see it on it lists that it has 1% soluble potash along with 72 trace elements. Now on the bottle I JUST bought about a week and a half ago the ONLY ingredient that it lists on the bottle is 0.05% magnesium.. Where did all these ingredients go???? Answer that and I'll quit bashing advanced nutrients....
View attachment 1269402
MY LABELLabel of budcandy on internet
Old jar of BIGBUD 
New jar of BIGBUDNow unless my eyes and brain are playing tricks on me, Where did all these ingredients go? Answer that and I'll shut my mouth.. Also why am I getting a def while following their nutrient calculator to a T ?????
THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDIN!!!!!
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Their nutrient calculator says you need to add 17.5ml of Sensi Bloom A and Sensi Bloom B per gallon? Really? Damn...
That's the first I've heard of them suggesting more than 10ml per gallon. When I was using Sensi Bloom I was running about 5ml - 8ml per gallon in coco... and that was still a little hot. The solution is in very high concentration so every extra ml makes a pretty big difference.
Does your problem look like this?
If so then despite the appearance of a Magnesium deficiency it is in fact a toxic salt build up. Namely Calcium and/or Potassium. Sulfates and Chlorides can contribute to these issues when toxic also, but that isn't necessarily a given. Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium all compete for uptake because of their valences. When Ca+2 or K+1 are in excess Mg+2 can be locked out. The pH of a media will come into play, sometimes, as well.
I have detailed this in a thread, given your time in flowering, I think your conditions fit. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/381540-answer-your-common-problem-weeks.html
I was hesitant, like you, to believe at first that I was over feeding. I burned a bridge or two over at ICMag on this very subject because of my refusal.
I was using 30ml per gallon of Organicare Huvega though (Mg/micro supplement) and still seeing what I thought was a magnesium problem. I couldn't figure out how I could be locking out Mg when I knew the supply was present in the media. So I got a ppm monitor and checked my run off. It was off the charts (at this time I was not using Advanced Nutrients, I'm a Canna man). Flushing the media brought my ppms back in range and the plants are doing much better now with plenty of lush new growth.
I'm not sure what you are doing to your system. I cannot explain how you grow, how AN makes their nutrients, or what goes on labels. I dunno why you'd direct whatever angry energy you have towards me. I didn't make the stuff, the calculator. I don't mix your nutrients or water your plants. My suggestion to you is to revisit their calculator to ensure you are running the right levels. Nearly 17.5ml sounds like too much of any one nutrient, but if it's the total of A+B combined then I guess you're close in range, your plant just isn't the heaviest feeder and over time that little extra food has been building up. You should probably flush, if in a media, or just drop your ppms in a DWC/NFT/Aeroponics/Ebb'n'Flow system.
If you'd like to "shut your mouth" maybe you should contact the MFG directly rather than myself. I cannot say anything that you couldn't learn on your own from the horses mouth.
Personally I've used products from several companies:
And this is just what I still have left around.
I don't use all these products at once. If you'd like to see a very rough guideline of my feeding schedule (ppm levels are approximations):
As you can see, I'm not a major user of AN products so I cannot speak either way about them in your own garden. I'm not broke though, so I've had the chance to try a couple products over the years and have found most systems to be at least comparable. Canna is really the only nutrient line that completely blew my world apart. I'll probably use their macro system as long as I'm in coco.
Given the situation of Krisko, who's thread you've so kindly hijacked in an effort to "call me out," I think it makes perfect sense that before swearing off AN all together he tries feeding at the appropriate levels. I think you should do the same, it sounds to me like you are over feeding them. Perhaps there was some confusion when translating the AN feeding calculator to your own grow. Maybe Advanced Nutrients reformulated their products. I dunno. I'm not them, and you're barking up the wrong tree son.
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max316420
Well-Known Member
This is my problem, Just wondering how I could get salt build up from using a clone that was only vegged for 2-3 weeks then thrown into flower. Have only fed a total of 4 times in flower and YES i will admit that all my plants haven't had a good run off. So what you are saying is to flush my ladies and wait until next watering to feed them? why am I getting a salt buildup so quickly? I will have to agree that what you explained seems to be what is happening but on my last crop I also did a full flush and didn't see any improvement. And I will also agree when I tested my runoff it was off the charts but still don't see any burning
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Hmm... Great looking SOG (aside from that minor yellowing).
I think one explanation for the over feeding would be this. The root mass doesn't fill the entire media after a transplant, but we feed the entirety of the media. Where the roots are present the food is consumed, but along the edges the salts just continue to accumulate. As the roots stretch out to fill the media they run into these areas of the media which are hyper-saturated with food, and as a result they burn up a little bit.
It might be that your nutrient levels aren't all that off for a well established root zone but that you were basically feeding the media and not the plant for a little while.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It is really an intricate chemistry balance issue and trying to figure out exactly what is wrong and where I've gone wrong has been a somewhat confusing process when I recognize a deficiency but know the elements are present.
I'm battling a similar situation right now in my test closet.
What I did was flush the plants down so that my run off was hitting somewhere around 650ppm.
I gave some time for the media to dry out, about 3-4 days, and healthy new growth appeared and it seemed like no new leafs were getting sick.
So I fed the plants at about 700ppm... Two days later I went to feed again and saw the problem returning.
So now I'm running about 400ppm in my feedings, which I'm doing about every other day, at about 1000ml per gallon of media. My lemon skunk takes about 1/2 a gallon a day, while the Blue Mystics use more like 1/3 a gallon a day.
After about a week of these low ppms the Blue Mystics (which are my problem, the Lemon Skunk LOVES the high ppms) are rebounding nicely. Flowers are stacking and the damaged growth is contained to the leaves that had been sick prior to the lower ppm feedings.
I'm on day... 15 or so of flowering now and my problem is a lot more advanced than yours is, but I was also feeding pretty heavy for a while. When you look at the center plant, it's healthy, but the Nirvana Blue Mystics (the outside plants) are the ones that are VERY light feeders and they react very poorly to high ppm conditions during flowering.
I've also incorporated more run off. I think this is making a good contribution as well.
You're looking like you only have another 3-4 weeks of flowering left, those flowers are nicely sized, so I think just dropping your ppms, keeping that run off going good, you should see results by harvest time. Honestly, I don't think they look "that" bad, but I know how sometimes the camera doesn't catch everything and being in the room is the only way to be certain.
Best of luck to you.
I think one explanation for the over feeding would be this. The root mass doesn't fill the entire media after a transplant, but we feed the entirety of the media. Where the roots are present the food is consumed, but along the edges the salts just continue to accumulate. As the roots stretch out to fill the media they run into these areas of the media which are hyper-saturated with food, and as a result they burn up a little bit.
It might be that your nutrient levels aren't all that off for a well established root zone but that you were basically feeding the media and not the plant for a little while.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It is really an intricate chemistry balance issue and trying to figure out exactly what is wrong and where I've gone wrong has been a somewhat confusing process when I recognize a deficiency but know the elements are present.
I'm battling a similar situation right now in my test closet.
What I did was flush the plants down so that my run off was hitting somewhere around 650ppm.
I gave some time for the media to dry out, about 3-4 days, and healthy new growth appeared and it seemed like no new leafs were getting sick.
So I fed the plants at about 700ppm... Two days later I went to feed again and saw the problem returning.
So now I'm running about 400ppm in my feedings, which I'm doing about every other day, at about 1000ml per gallon of media. My lemon skunk takes about 1/2 a gallon a day, while the Blue Mystics use more like 1/3 a gallon a day.
After about a week of these low ppms the Blue Mystics (which are my problem, the Lemon Skunk LOVES the high ppms) are rebounding nicely. Flowers are stacking and the damaged growth is contained to the leaves that had been sick prior to the lower ppm feedings.
I'm on day... 15 or so of flowering now and my problem is a lot more advanced than yours is, but I was also feeding pretty heavy for a while. When you look at the center plant, it's healthy, but the Nirvana Blue Mystics (the outside plants) are the ones that are VERY light feeders and they react very poorly to high ppm conditions during flowering.
I've also incorporated more run off. I think this is making a good contribution as well.
You're looking like you only have another 3-4 weeks of flowering left, those flowers are nicely sized, so I think just dropping your ppms, keeping that run off going good, you should see results by harvest time. Honestly, I don't think they look "that" bad, but I know how sometimes the camera doesn't catch everything and being in the room is the only way to be certain.
Best of luck to you.
max316420
Well-Known Member
so honestly I have quite a few plants, that is just one section Lol shhhhhhh so flushing them all would take daaaaays. I'm a tad confused, do you think im getting a lockup or should I just feed with plain water this feeding? The only reason I am feeding so heavy is because last crop I went super light at about 1 1\2 teaspoons per gallon and my plants were dying within 4 weeks.. Should I flush or just try feeding them plain water with a good runoff? My appologizes on coming of kinda harsh but you gotta realize that I lost 60 plants last time due to a problem like this, it just started alot earlier last crop. And I forgot to mention that im in a plain promix formula and have only had to water and feed once a week. So I think ive fed them with my advanced a total of 4-5 times, but your theory does sound logical..... and to the starter of this thread sorry about hyjacking it lol They recommend 0.54 fl oz's per watering and the conversion calculator I used said it came out to 3.25 teaspoons per gallon
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Dude... you don't have to explain anything to me... I know how that is...
Two weeks after this photo I lost 1/2 the plants to this exact problem. Killed my harvest weight... I don't have pictures of the problem at the end because I just gave up with the camera.
I REALLY don't want to steer you in the wrong direction though...
Personally, if your garden were my garden, I'd drop my PPMs to around 500 to 600, and just ride that pony to the finish line. No flushing, no plain water, just a kind of middle road approach to what you have tried.
Still, you can see how from one strain to the next in my own garden that each plant has its own needs and tolerances... I don't even know what strain you're working with... So it's just such a shot in the dark and I'd hate for you to take a risk on my behalf.
I think you have a question worthy of starting a thread. Seems to be that more opinions might get you going in the right direction, I am but one voice in a sea of advice, use that lifeline and ask the audience if you get my drift.
But yeah, 500 to 600ppm, get some more advice, ride a pony... That sums it up pretty good.
And no worries about any hostility. I've had some fools trolling me ever since I started posting in the more "opinion" based forums and I've been a bit on edge. I sent one dude a PM and he snitched me out to the moderators so I'm, as of now, trying not to let anyone get me heated. I know it doesn't get me anywhere, pisses me off in my personal life even, so I'm working on not letting it get to me.
Two weeks after this photo I lost 1/2 the plants to this exact problem. Killed my harvest weight... I don't have pictures of the problem at the end because I just gave up with the camera.
I REALLY don't want to steer you in the wrong direction though...
Personally, if your garden were my garden, I'd drop my PPMs to around 500 to 600, and just ride that pony to the finish line. No flushing, no plain water, just a kind of middle road approach to what you have tried.
Still, you can see how from one strain to the next in my own garden that each plant has its own needs and tolerances... I don't even know what strain you're working with... So it's just such a shot in the dark and I'd hate for you to take a risk on my behalf.
I think you have a question worthy of starting a thread. Seems to be that more opinions might get you going in the right direction, I am but one voice in a sea of advice, use that lifeline and ask the audience if you get my drift.
But yeah, 500 to 600ppm, get some more advice, ride a pony... That sums it up pretty good.
And no worries about any hostility. I've had some fools trolling me ever since I started posting in the more "opinion" based forums and I've been a bit on edge. I sent one dude a PM and he snitched me out to the moderators so I'm, as of now, trying not to let anyone get me heated. I know it doesn't get me anywhere, pisses me off in my personal life even, so I'm working on not letting it get to me.
max316420
Well-Known Member
I hear ya on that lol well just talked to the guy from advanced and he said that I might be overfeeding them just a hair. Told me to check for root rot (which i did) and my roots actually look pretty good. Said my ppm was a little high, told me to feed plain water next watering and then back my nutes down to 1600 on week 4. I'm using RO water and he told me with that type of water that I need to get my calmag ppm up between 50-100ppm every watering. What I'm thinking might have happened is that I didn't start using calmag up until about 10 days ago so I think that maybe my def had already set in and thinking that If i hit them with a good dose of calmag it would clear it up. I might have hit them with too much calmag and created a lockout from too much calcium. so I filled up a gallon of RO water and put 1 teaspoon of calmag in and checked the ppm WOW took my ppm from 10 ppm to 250 with just the calmag. So I think when I hit them with the 1 1\2 teaspoons of calmag last 2 watering (about 400ppm with just calmag) I added to much calcium and instantly caused a lockout. I guess the moral of the story would be USE A LIGHT FEEDING OF CALMAG EVERY WATERING. My nugs are actually pretty decent sized for being 25 days in after switching to 12\12 but don't want to hinder bud development by having a lockout. So next watering im gonna ph my water, put a light dose of calmag in and get a nice runoff and continue my feeding schedule after that. Hope my jabbering might have given you a little insight into my world and the troubles ones haveing hehehe. Good luck on your garden and stay in touch to see how your problem is doing... ps ill post a few pics of my garden on this thread tonight so you can see's what i got goin on
decrimCA
Active Member
This was a great thread - just finishing reading it.
And while I agree things could have been wrapped up in the first few pages, I think the newbies on these boards could really learn something from seeing the thought process when dealing with issues.
I haven't had troubles with the Sensi A&B formula before, but it's good to know that when I decide to add more nutrients that I might want to be a little more careful about my numbers.
And while I agree things could have been wrapped up in the first few pages, I think the newbies on these boards could really learn something from seeing the thought process when dealing with issues.
I haven't had troubles with the Sensi A&B formula before, but it's good to know that when I decide to add more nutrients that I might want to be a little more careful about my numbers.
hooked.on.ponics
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how easy it is to solve problems with AN nutes just by calling the tech support guys. I was hesitant to do it at first myself, but they really know their nutes better than anyone else so it makes sense they'd have the best advice.
masonite420
Active Member
I like AN additives..Bud candy, nirvana all the way through, and Big bud along with H&G's full line......A great combo of clean base nutes, enzyme work and beneficial bacterias..... and clean organics and mid bloom boosters for hydro or soil......Peace