Dyna-Gro vs General Hydroponics (Dumpster Grow)

[homebrewer]

HB, can you go into some details on the fogging you do? Do you use any other products to control the mites? I have doctor doom foggers but am not sure of the best way to use them, you girls look really good so late into bloom. How late do you fog? I use Azamax and they seem to be getting immune to it, that and the low humidity that rolled into town hasn't helped at all.

I fogged today actually but I fogged in my veg room. No doubt some creeped into my grow room but a lot of those pyrethrum products are ok a few days out from harvest (http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=231&navid=24). As far as other products to control mites, I use Azamax and Take Down and spray once per week when I can remember. I believe take down to be more effective than Azamax, but they sort of work in different ways. The foggers are the best defense that I've found. And I'll say it again, Protekt really does make it harder for mites to take hold. Too bad I'm not using it on my dirt plants at the moment and that seems to be where those mites like to live. For some reason, my hydro plants seem to be a little harder for the mites to get to.

 

[MoppinSauce]

I fogged today actually but I fogged in my veg room. No doubt some creeped into my grow room but a lot of those pyrethrum products are ok a few days out from harvest (http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=231&navid=24). As far as other products to control mites, I use Azamax and Take Down and spray once per week when I can remember. I believe take down to be more effective than Azamax, but they sort of work in different ways. The foggers are the best defense that I've found. And I'll say it again, Protekt really does make it harder for mites to take hold. Too bad I'm not using it on my dirt plants at the moment and that seems to be where those mites like to live. For some reason, my hydro plants seem to be a little harder for the mites to get to.

Thanks HB. I have 2-3 weeks on most of my girls in bloom so it may be a little late for me to fog. I upped my humidity over the weekend and that really seems to slow them down quite a bit. I was shocked when the Azamax didn't do the trick and I applied multiple times at varying rates last friday through sunday - .25oz up to .7oz/per gallon. I gave in an ordered the floramite trio off of ebay. I have never heard of take down, I appreciate the info. Keep em green HB.

 

[nixusr]

Aren't you using Sweet for the GH tray also? I think that may also be providing some extra sulfur related to better resin production on the GH tray? I have been using DG in my dirt plants and they love it I have started using both GH Flouralicious and Sweet and have noticed an increase in resin production over not using them in just a very short amount of time. After seeing your results and mine in dirt I am confident you have found a possible replacement for that advanced and troublesome GH schedule you have now. Thanks for helping me decide on what nutes to start with and for sharing your results.

I've purchased the DG Grow, Bloom, MagPro and ProTekt based on homebrewer's experiment. I have been reading up on both the Floralicious Plus and Sweet.

Since this is going to be my first grow, at what stage do you normally add those supplements during bloom? I am still debating if I should buy the Floralicious + and Sweet. My local hydro store mentioned that they would work me a deal.

 

[venacular]

I've purchased the DG Grow, Bloom, MagPro and ProTekt based on homebrewer's experiment. I have been reading up on both the Floralicious Plus and Sweet.

Since this is going to be my first grow, at what stage do you normally add those supplements during bloom? I am still debating if I should buy the Floralicious + and Sweet. My local hydro store mentioned that they would work me a deal.

I am using the Flouralicious + in grow and bloom, it doesn't take much. I am using Sweet from start to finish in bloom only.

 

[Mazar i Shariff]

Fogging helps the room greatly! I used to clear the room when problems got bad, as much as a task as that can be, and fogged for 4 hours minimum during the day so that their light cycle didn't get stressed and then I wiped down, sprayed the plants/equipment with their own organic spray before entering, and then put them back in the room. Killed stuff off and minimized the problem for a good 2-3 weeks before I started seeing flies and whatnot again. Keep those fuckers to a minimum, that's for sure!

All the organic oils I have in my sprays: Thyme Oil, Rosemary Oil, Peppermint Oil, Canola Oil, Neem Oil, Sesame Oil, and a couple others I can't think of at the moment. Peppermint works great and makes the garden smell like a candy cane. I enjoy using that produce. Thyme & Rosemary can get old fast, as they are very fragrent, but nice herbal smell. Canola, Neem, & Sesame can be nice cuz I've found they are by far the most scentless that can be used and not harm plants or cause chemical burns/uptake in soil.

 

[epicseeds]

Hey I have been talking quite a bit with Ryan, the CEO from Dyna-Gro and he is a stand up guy. I would like to share some of his information offered:

The points you brought up about coco are true but definitely over emphasized in the indoor gardening world. The levels of Potassium and Sulfur that are present in high quality coco are not as high as people are lead to believe, or atleast not high enough to warrant a massive shift it nutrient composition. The concept that you need to use a coco specific nutrient is mostly just another clever way for companies to sell more nutrients. In my opinion, the potassium and sulfur levels present in coco are less of a concern than the tendency for it to "hold onto" calcium and magnesium, but even this problem is rare and easily remedied. Long story short, Dyna-Gro is designed to work well in coco so you don't have to worry about a coco specific formula. I myself am mainly a coco grower and I designed our drain to waste feeding chart to work with coco. I do recommend giving the plants a flush once a month and I recommend that you feed at a pH of 5.8 with Grow and 6.0 with Bloom. The higher pH is to account for the elevated phosphorous levels found in Bloom and Mag-Pro.
We don't currently have any beneficial microorganism products but we will have a liquid based bacillus product coming out shortly. Our product will have 5 different strains of bacillus that will improve nutrient uptake and decrease fertilizer requirements. In the meantime, using something like Great White is a good idea. I also recommend using a little bit of a sweetener to give the beneficials another food source. I personally use a sweetener and a sea kelp product in addition to my Dyna-Gro and beneficials. I think you are getting the best of both worlds this way (organic and mineral based)

Foliage-Pro is definitely a great formula. It can be used the whole way through flowering but I personally find that it results in a leafier end product. During vegetative growth, however, Foliage-Pro is an excellent formula and the 3-1-2 ratio is quite exceptional, as you mentioned. The only advantage to using Grow is that it is slightly higher in a couple of micronutrients and you have less potential for nitrogen toxicity. Foliage-Pro is quite high in Nitrogen and some people over-do the nitrogen without realizing it. Sometimes people won't realize they are using too much Nitrogen because the main symptom is excessively green foliage. Most people think that the darker green foliage actually means a healthier plant. Then, when they go to transition to flower, they notice that the transition time is slow and blame it on the nutrients, not realizing that they simply over did the N which delayed their transition. Therefore, I often recommend Grow because it is a little easier to work with but as long as you don't over feed, Foliage-Pro should give you very impressive results and the switch to Bloom will give you a very rapid transition.

Some things that I think may apply to you, are though you are not using Foliage Pro - I suspect since you are adding Grow and Bloom together during Flower that you may be giving a bit too much N. After looking at your pics again it does seem that they are super dark green, a sign of N toxicity. As he said, this can cause a delay in flowering which you seem to be experiencing. Perhaps next time you should try switching to only bloom.

With that said, they look excellent and am looking forward to final weight comparison and a smoke report! Do you plan on doing a second comparison grow, and apply the things you have learned about DG thus far? I think you would really benefit from a sweetener with the DG

 

[malady]

read the whole thread.

i think im going to purchase dyna-gro instead of using my FF nutes
just for pure ease and rez control

thanks alot for the experiment
and i cant wait to read the smoke report + rep

 

[bigmindhack]

If you're using Floralicious Plus and Sweet can you still clean your rez with H202?

 

[homebrewer]

Hey I have been talking quite a bit with Ryan, the CEO from Dyna-Gro and he is a stand up guy. I would like to share some of his information offered:



Some things that I think may apply to you, are though you are not using Foliage Pro - I suspect since you are adding Grow and Bloom together during Flower that you may be giving a bit too much N. After looking at your pics again it does seem that they are super dark green, a sign of N toxicity. As he said, this can cause a delay in flowering which you seem to be experiencing. Perhaps next time you should try switching to only bloom.

With that said, they look excellent and am looking forward to final weight comparison and a smoke report! Do you plan on doing a second comparison grow, and apply the things you have learned about DG thus far? I think you would really benefit from a sweetener with the DG

I've spoken with Ryan before, that guy is a damn guru! While my plants do look green, I've been giving them 90% bloom formula going on 14 days now and before that, it was 2/3rds bloom for about 3 weeks. So they haven't been getting that much grow formula and the grow's NPK is (7-9-5), not exactly a nitrogen powerhouse. What is wrong with green plants? DG is potent and at their suggested rates, I was up to 1900 ppms (including my base water). Any burn or toxicity that you might see is from overfeeding in general. Again, thanks to those who encouraged me to get a TDS meter. I plan on continuing this thread through another grow using some GH additives and tweaking my feeding program based on what I noticed this round and ppm requirements for the plants.

Below are some shots of the dirt part of my garden and I wouldn't consider these too green either. Check out the dirt plants being grown with DG nutes in the dirt, where are the excesses or deficiencies? I don't see any .

Moving forward, I wont be using sweet in my tray as I will not see the benefit of the carbs since I'm not currently using any beneficials and already have the magnesium and sulfur covered. In addition, 5mls/gallon of sweet adds 100ppm I believe and I'm more interested in comprising all of my ppms with balanced plant nutrition from DG. I'm currently experimenting with floralicious plus and trying to tweak the grow:bloom ratio as the flowering period progresses. Remember, I'm trying to simply my process while maintaining yields and quality .


Grown with Botanicare pure blend:




Grown with DynaGro:

 

[Mazar i Shariff]

I'm not an 'i told ya so' kinda guy ...

I just wanted to point out that I mentioned a few weeks ago the leaves were too dark green and that grow being added anywhere past Week 2 could be the cause due to too much N, possible lockout even. Nice to hear the CEO of Dyna Gro agrees with me, I guess. LOL

The reason why there can easily be too much Nitrogen, is that the nutrient is so vital in it's ability to be broken down and used for creating new vegetatitive growth. Unfort, N is not used in large quantities for Bud Growth. Mainly just leaves, stem/stalk, new branching. While it needs to be present for proper growth during Flower, your vertical growth, branching, ... pretty much stops after the plant is 2-3 weeks into Flower, and it no longer requires anywhere near those higher N levels it once did. People laugh when I said I'm doing a PK spike during flowering and are like, I don't do that my plants need N, too! Well, yes. But in low doses. My Kushie Kush was actually prob my fav ratio and worked better than other nutes towards the end of flowering when I do PK spikes, which consisted of a ratio of 1-7-17. Too much N at the end of flowering will also prevent them from being able to properly autumn off (yellow) and break down the plants chemical concentration so that it can decrease and taste/smoke better in the end.

And about foliar feeding. For those who choose to do this, you should highly consider lowering your hydro/soil feeds if you are going to feed the plant thru it's vegetation, as well, or you can easily burn even if levels thru both ends are ideal, as the overall qty used will still add up to be too much in the end.

***Sorry homebrewer, I didn't mean to make such a big post on some stuff that at times can seem Cannabis101, but I felt it was relevent to bring up again since we're discussing your plants condition, Nitrogen toxicity, what DG CEO said, ...

 

[homebrewer]

I'm not an 'i told ya so' kinda guy ...

I just wanted to point out that I mentioned a few weeks ago the leaves were too dark green and that grow being added anywhere past Week 2 could be the cause due to too much N, possible lockout even. Nice to hear the CEO of Dyna Gro agrees with me, I guess. LOL

The reason why there can easily be too much Nitrogen, is that the nutrient is so vital in it's ability to be broken down and used for creating new vegetatitive growth. Unfort, N is not used in large quantities for Bud Growth. Mainly just leaves, stem/stalk, new branching. While it needs to be present for proper growth during Flower, your vertical growth, branching, ... pretty much stops after the plant is 2-3 weeks into Flower, and it no longer requires anywhere near those higher N levels it once did. People laugh when I said I'm doing a PK spike during flowering and are like, I don't do that my plants need N, too! Well, yes. But in low doses. My Kushie Kush was actually prob my fav ratio and worked better than other nutes towards the end of flowering when I do PK spikes, which consisted of a ratio of 1-7-17. Too much N at the end of flowering will also prevent them from being able to properly autumn off (yellow) and break down the plants chemical concentration so that it can decrease and taste/smoke better in the end.

And about foliar feeding. For those who choose to do this, you should highly consider lowering your hydro/soil feeds if you are going to feed the plant thru it's vegetation, as well, or you can easily burn even if levels thru both ends are ideal, as the overall qty used will still add up to be too much in the end.

***Sorry homebrewer, I didn't mean to make such a big post on some stuff that at times can seem Cannabis101, but I felt it was relevent to bring up again since we're discussing your plants condition, Nitrogen toxicity, what DG CEO said, ...

Indoor plants don't 'autumn off' naturally. They get the same amount of light and water on day 1 as day 60 and the temps stay the same too. Giving your plant less nitrogen to turn the leaves yellow doesn't mean the plant is done. The ratio of red to white hairs, tric color and overall plant health are all indicators as to when these plants can be harvested.

I'll point to real world examples. Anyone who gardens does not allow the leaves of their garden veggies to turn yellow before they harvest. Tobacco farmers do not harvest when the leaves are yellow. I've worked in corn growing states, are those corn stalks yellow at harvest? I cannot think of a single plant or fruit-bearing tree that needs to be nitrogen deficient before the produce tastes good. How is cannabis any different? It's not. I agree that the nitrogen needs are not the same on day 10 of flower as they are on day 55. That's why I've completely tapered off the grow formula and have been for 2 weeks. I appriciate the input but the goal is to keep them green guys. You don't have to agree with that but I'd challenge you guys to think outside the cannabis forum nonsense and grow these plants like you would grow food in your garden.

 

[Mazar i Shariff]

It's not all about nitrogen in the autuming off, but that does help trigger it (esp indoors). Whether in/out, the plant knows as the buds develop and trichs go amber that it's nearing the end of the cycle. Certainly doesn't NEED change in light or temps to tell it that. I've seen people approaching week 12 and haven't even flushed, but because they keep their nitrogen levels high throughout, they didn't autumn at all. He also was a believer that flushing did nothing. I remember assisting in trimming and I've never cut up such hay-like bud in my life. Smoke was terrible. I was vague in my explaination on that, as I was more pointing out the high N levels thru flowering and ended up rambling about something else. No need to clutter your test forum with another subject that could use a thread on it's own for discussion.

Back to the point, keep up the hard work and keep us updated!

 

[homebrewer]

It's not all about nitrogen in the autuming off, but that does help trigger it (esp indoors). Whether in/out, the plant knows as the buds develop and trichs go amber that it's nearing the end of the cycle. Certainly doesn't NEED change in light or temps to tell it that. I've seen people approaching week 12 and haven't even flushed, but because they keep their nitrogen levels high throughout, they didn't autumn at all. He also was a believer that flushing did nothing. I remember assisting in trimming and I've never cut up such hay-like bud in my life. Smoke was terrible. I was vague in my explaination on that, as I was more pointing out the high N levels thru flowering and ended up rambling about something else. No need to clutter your test forum with another subject that could use a thread on it's own for discussion.

Back to the point, keep up the hard work and keep us updated!

I think this is relevant as it has to do with NPK ratios and tweaking a 3 part from GH or a 2 part from DG is how you'd adjust said ratios. Too bad you're not my neighbor. I'd slice a nug off for you and change your mind about any kind of off aroma or bad taste with green plants . My AK47s are just as green and have the most pungent grapefruit and ginger smell, it's intoxicating. The dumpster smells more of berries, skunk and earth.

 

[KingIV20]

Too bad you're not my neighbor.

too bad YOU'RE not MY neighbor...

I'm definitely going to have to give the Dyna Gro nutes a go when I get low on the GH. Plus the Flora Plus and perhaps the Sweet if it mixes well...

 

[Mazar i Shariff]

I think this is relevant as it has to do with NPK ratios and tweaking a 3 part from GH or a 2 part from DG is how you'd adjust said ratios. Too bad you're not my neighbor. I'd slice a nug off for you and change your mind about any kind of off aroma or bad taste with green plants . My AK47s are just as green and have the most pungent grapefruit and ginger smell, it's intoxicating. The dumpster smells more of berries, skunk and earth.

I agree, I think we would make good neighbors!

Although, a slice of my organic StarTrek right back atcha, and the debate would have to continue! haha

Cheers brotha!

 

[Dropastone]

I just ordered the Grow, Bloom, Tekt and Mag Pro. I've been an avid user of GH for quite some time now but after reading this thread I'm gonna give Dyna Grow a shot. I like the results I've seen so far and and the ease of use is another added bonus. I was gonna go with the foliage Pro but after reading this thread and the reply's from Ryan, the CEO from Dyna-Gro, I decided to go with the Grow instead.

Keep up the great work HB.

Peace.

 

[epicseeds]

What is wrong with green plants? DG is potent and at their suggested rates, I was up to 1900 ppms (including my base water).

I guess I am just used to seeing so many people with yellow leaves near the end of harvest. And for the record, I totally agree with you about keeping the leaves green. I was just worried that since you were using the grow + bloom, and since you said they may take longer to finish that usual - that this may be the reason why. but i guess you used it only the first couple weeks which is a good thing to do in order to "feed the stretch" have you mentioned yet how long you will flush, or if you will even flush?

PS - here are the feeding charts. Is this the same that you have HB?

 

[Mazar i Shariff]

Ty for posting those feed charts epic. I was happy to see the DG recommendations even agree to flush. That's def the way to go, in my opion, if you want to achieve full potential in smoke & flavor. And they still have plenty of nutes left within their nutrient stores to finish, which will all be left in their leaves, leaving the plant to eat at them and 'autumn'. A flush actually doesn't always cause a plant to autumn. Depends how big of feeders they are which is strain dependent, what the chemical/chlorophyll concentration within the plant is, as well as the length of the flush.

Something for outdoor growers to keep in mind, during the growing season, chlorophyll is continually being produced and broken down, causing leaves to appear green. As night length increases in the autumn, chlorophyll production slows down and then stops, and eventually all the chlorophyll is destroyed. The carotenoids and anthocyanins that are present in the leaf are then unmasked and show their colors, leading to yellow/red/orange, even black leaves, which will later fall if allowed to grow long enough thru this period.

Something for hydro growers to consider, the obvious goal of being indoor is to try to simulate an ideal outdoor enviornment within your enclosure, with the exception of adding animals, bugs, storms, you get my point. 2 ways at the end of the cycle that you can simulate an outdoor enviornment and help your plants finish properly, is to 1) When you begin flushing, start backing your lights down slightly. I've tried 1/hr day for 4 days, so that you will then be down to 8 hours. In the final 3 days I turned the lights COMPLETELY OFF, as this allows the chlorophyll/nutrients to break down even more and forces them into using this as a final boost for extra weight/potency production. 2) In tandem with this controlled light cycle, flushing your reservoir or soil over the course of these 7 days with either Water Only OR Water & Flushing Solution (chelating). Some people do this with a 300ppm dose of bloom nutes, too, but I say just cut the nutes completely and go for a pure flush, unless you wanna go 300PPM the first couple days of the flush then cut down to a lower level in the final stages of the flush.

Hope this helps!

 

[homebrewer]

Epic- That's the feeding chart that I was using to start but pretty much scrapped it after a few weeks. I don't know what scale they're on but that feeding chart is just too strong. So I measured the PPMs of all the formulas and this is what I came up with (1ml per gallon) on the 442 scale or .71 conversion:

Grow PPM 128
Bloom PPM 88
Protekt PPM 12
MagPro PPM 115

If I add up what they're telling me to use, then it'll put me way over where I need to be. In short, I've just found these nutes to be pretty potent and it doesn't take very much to get up to a desirable range for the plants. Check out post #155 in this thread, it kinda shows how much I've dialed back due to the use of a TDS meter.

As far as flushing goes, I'm not much of a flusher. Rather, I flush with mild nutes instead of plain water and I flush for maybe 3 days depending on how my plants smell. Just like my corn, tomato and tobacco examples for green plants, those plants aren't flushed before harvest. You can't flush an outdoor plant. You can water with no nutes but there are still minerals in the soil. Organic indoor growers can't flush their plants either and those tree-huggers seem to think their product tastes better than that of inorganic plants. I don't believe flushing is necessary if you've fed your plants correctly during the life cycle (though I still flush for 3 days). In my case where there is some burn, I caught it weeks ago, flushed, made the necessary adjustments and the buds are back to being fragrant and familiar. Uncle Ben's theory on flushing is that it was something the Dutch invented to atone for the sins of overfeeding. I tend to agree with that.

 

[ENDLSCYCLE]

I'm sure you've been asked this before but it's late and I don't feel like thumbing(clicking) through pages....What line up of GH do you use....I use Flora 3part with Floralicious +, Liquid KoolBloom, and FloraBlend....I have found that the feed chart GH tells me to use for this combo is Way too strong...and if I run it at half strength I feel I'm not getting what I should..so I just pump em to the max....what kind of concoction have you brewed up???