NEW Closet Set Up for L.E.D. Stealth Grow

[Serapis]

Serapis, do yourself a favour and back off on the superthrive. Too much is no good. Superthrive contains a synthetic hormone called Naphthalene Acetic Acid, and too much NAA can do nasty things to your healthy plants. I understand you want the best for your plants and so do I, thats how I got into trouble with superthrive. I'd suggest substituting with vitamin B1 and limit your use of superthrive to once every 2 weeks MAX. B1 is much safer to use on a regular basis but even then, give it a straight watering once in a while. Keep the additives to a minimum.

Thanks for the advice. I only use ST when I transplant, germinate or change the light cycle. ST is an excellent product to reduce stress on plants. I use 2 drops per gallon of oxygenated water. I've also switched to an organic starter potting soil. This is the first additive the plant has seen.

 

[Serapis]

I smoke from time to time, maybe 1-2 times a month. My girl smokes daily and a few times a day on the weekend days. Here is a pic of the couch
View attachment 1104423Might just be the best $50 EVER! That's a 53# Boxer and she only takes up one cushion


Serapis, don't discount the late poppers. Cameo was a late arrival when I sprouted her and a couple other seeds. She turned out to be the best of my bagseeders. Granted you are working with brand name genetics, so it may not make a huge difference but everyone roots for the come from behind victory

Oh trust me, I know this from past grows. The little guys will almost ALWAYS fool ya. It's like they have something at the end to prove. After 10 days though, I was sure it wasn't going to germ. It proved me wrong as is now the best looking one.

Looking at my pics above, does everyone think that the LED is high enough this time?




It better be, lol.

 

[Smrt]

Thanks for the advice. I only use ST when I transplant, germinate or change the light cycle. ST is an excellent product to reduce stress on plants. I use 2 drops per gallon of oxygenated water. I've also switched to an organic starter potting soil. This is the first additive the plant has seen.

Hey dont get me wrong, it's great stuff, I know it. But too much of ANYTHING is bad. Like I said, Vitamin B1 is alot friendlier for frequent use and cheaper, check it out. Humic/Fulvic acid is good stuff too, humic for veg state and fulvic for flower. I try to stick to 1 additive at a time. If Im doin a grow with minimal additives I'll keep the B1 handy and use it when I water so theyre getting something besides plain water. Like I said tho, thats if Im stickin to a nutes only grow.

 

[WattSaver]

Hey man

Been following your grow since you started. I have been very interested in LED grows and its nice to have someone else do the experiment for me. I however do not think i can hold out on starting mine before yours finishes. I have done a enough research into LEDs, but im curious of your opinion, it being one that is not biased at all. I was hoping to set up a closet with less than six plants most likely four, i believe my area is like 3x6. i will running a screen above the babbies, since i have experience with scrog. what lights would you recommend if i wanted to spend about half of what you should have (~1000) on lights. The 120 watt tri-band Led grow light goes for round $250 (got that from your previous links). In addition to one or two of the tri-bands, what else would you recommend.

Thanks again, and i look forward to following the rest of your grow.

Pick your lights based on the area you will be using to flower. If you plan on using the full 6' of length in your closet then it will take several LED fixtures to cover the area. If you are only going to use 1/2 (3x3) you will need at least 2 of the 126w models, or a better choice would be a larger fixture 300w +. Best prices are generally at ebay but beware, many of the items they sell are junk. For flowering be sure all the diodes are at least 1w, if the fixture has more bulbs than watts then skip it. (They do work for veg/mother plants) Also make sure of the light bandwidth especially the red. Many inexpensive fixture use the 630nm bulb which is okay but the 660nm wave length is much more productive. A good quad band fixture will have both the 630 & 660. They best speced fixture I've found is from http://growitled.com/ (they sell a 6 band) they also have the best prices for larger wattage fixtures. I'm using their 350w model and it seems to be kicking ass. I want to get another one to pump even more watts on the girls but I haven't been able to convince the wife on spending another $800

 

[Retris]

But yea, Definitely think the light is high enough now for sure.

Are you doin 20/4 hrs of lighting still?

 

[Serapis]

But yea, Definitely think the light is high enough now for sure.

Are you doin 20/4 hrs of lighting still?

No. I am at 24 hours. Today I propped the plant up by 8" and kept a close eye on it. It did fine for a couple of hours, and then I noticed barely, that the small serrated leaf edges were starting to turn up. I placed the plant back on the shelf and within an hours, the tips were normal again. That tells me these LED lights kick ass. It's going to take me a little bit to get used to them. I figure this girl will be ready for 12" height in a few days.

MY FISH TANK:
They say you can grow anything in good water. It's true. My water reservoir was cloudy today with bits of algae it looked like. I cleaned the air stone a few days ago and it was slimy, so I've been keeping an eye on the water closely. It was time for an aquarium filter.... I went to Wally World and got a 10-30 gallon large whisper quiet filter. All I need now is fish.... I just might add some gold fish. At this point I have a 12 gallon fish tank in a doubled up tote for my water supply. I'm using aquarium PH tablets to buffer and hold PH at 7, a nice 16" air stone and a pump/filter system that removes metals, chemicals, etc. I'm just missing fish...

 

[luckyskindaguy]

No. I am at 24 hours. Today I propped the plant up by 8" and kept a close eye on it. It did fine for a couple of hours, and then I noticed barely, that the small serrated leaf edges were starting to turn up. I placed the plant back on the shelf and within an hours, the tips were normal again. That tells me these LED lights kick ass. It's going to take me a little bit to get used to them. I figure this girl will be ready for 12" height in a few days.

MY FISH TANK:
They say you can grow anything in good water. It's true. My water reservoir was cloudy today with bits of algae it looked like. I cleaned the air stone a few days ago and it was slimy, so I've been keeping an eye on the water closely. It was time for an aquarium filter.... I went to Wally World and got a 10-30 gallon large whisper quiet filter. All I need now is fish.... I just might add some gold fish. At this point I have a 12 gallon fish tank in a doubled up tote for my water supply. I'm using aquarium PH tablets to buffer and hold PH at 7, a nice 16" air stone and a pump/filter system that removes metals, chemicals, etc. I'm just missing fish...

Careful with goldfish, they have high amonia in their waste, not likely to be good for your plants

 

[Retris]

No. I am at 24 hours. Today I propped the plant up by 8" and kept a close eye on it. It did fine for a couple of hours, and then I noticed barely, that the small serrated leaf edges were starting to turn up. I placed the plant back on the shelf and within an hours, the tips were normal again. That tells me these LED lights kick ass. It's going to take me a little bit to get used to them. I figure this girl will be ready for 12" height in a few days..

In that case then damn those are some kick ass LED's! haha Were the back ones on it the whole time too or just the top?

 

[Serapis]

In that case then damn those are some kick ass LED's! haha Were the back ones on it the whole time too or just the top?

Just the top....

 

[Serapis]

Careful with goldfish, they have high amonia in their waste, not likely to be good for your plants

Fish emit nitrates, which is good for plants. This accomplished by the nitrogen cycle, which turns fish waste into plant food. The trick is to get the plant:fish ratio correct. Also, the fish will eventually get big. In the first 6 weeks, you have to constantly monitor water for nitrate levels and do partial water changes as necessary. Eventually the system will dial itself in and all waste will become nitrogen. Several problems exist with this idea and I hope to iron them out. I think it would be awesome to have fish inside. This is just an idea at this stage, not a plan.

 

[Cannabist Communist]

I decided to be 100% safe, side panels are OFF

Good call, dude; I had a feelin' you'd be seein' it my way.

I smoke from time to time, maybe 1-2 times a month. My girl smokes daily and a few times a day on the weekend days. Here is a pic of the couch
View attachment 1104423Might just be the best $50 EVER! That's a 53# Boxer and she only takes up one cushion

Awww, it's a moop! Sweet dog and couch combo; you pick 'em up in the same place? Just kiddin'!

Looking at my pics above, does everyone think that the LED is high enough this time?




It better be, lol.

I'm sure you'll be all right here on out. Just drop it down closer in graduated increments over time, and keep an eye on 'em. But don't get closer than a foot until you flower; I've found some really reliable LED studies, grows, and side-by-side comparisons which demonstrate conclusively that they emit more than enough light for even huge plants, and their foliar penetration is actually slightly better than HIDs. In fact, you'll prob'ly wanna keep 'em at least a foot above the whole time; their lightprint is improved, and their intensity diminshes much less than an HID at this range. More on this below.

In that case then damn those are some kick ass LED's! haha Were the back ones on it the whole time too or just the top?

Just the top....

Yes, indeed, they do kick ass!

Now, I'm sure you're all dying to see these studies and grows! Just take a look here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=160147

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184542

I do apologize for linking to another forum, but please understand that I do it for educational purposes only and not to undermine RIU. Anyhow, in the first thread, the user hazy uses a 205 watt LED lamp by Hydro Grow LED (HGL), who claims that it will match the intensity of his 400 watt HPS. The owner of HGL, herein known as LEDGirl, supplied him with the lamp for free for the purposes of this test. She compares the PAR values of her lamps with a 600 watt MH and a Lumigrow LED lamp composed of five watt diodes in this thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=173290

Her 345 watter had approximately 41.1% more PAR than the 600 watt MH, and a whopping 69.8% more than the Lumigrow, at the same distance. Thus confirming what you were saying about one watt diodes being more efficient than five or six watt diodes, Serapis. This huge gap is due in large part to the use of one watt diodes with a spectral angle of sixty degrees instead of the common hundred and twenty degree angle used by most cheap competitors, giving them much greater foliar penetration, yet reducing the lightprint. However, not only are the one watt diodes more efficient, but they spread out the light with greater numbers in good spacial ratios; helping to minimize the impact of the reduced lightprint.

Now coming back to hazy's comparative study:

In the first comparative study, which attempted to match the light intensity of the lamps used for a comparison of quantity and quality, hazy grew two clones from three different mothers of different strains; Sugar Shack, Sour Diesel, and Chem4, one of each per lamp. In the end, the HID outyielded the LED as follows:

Sugar Shack:
LED: 29.1g; 85% of HID; 15% less
HID: 34.2g; 118% of LED; 18% more

Sour Diesel:
LED: 59.9g; 85% of HID; 15% less
HID: 70.4g; 118% of LED; 18% more

Chem4:
LED: 27.3g; 65% of HID; 35% less
HID: 41.9g; 154% of LED; 54% more

Total Yield:
LED: 116.3g; 79.5% of HID; 20.5% less
HID: 146.5g; 126% of LED; 26% more

Average Yield:
LED: 38.8g; 78% of HID; 22% less
HID: 48.8g; 126% of LED; 26% more

I must note that this was hazy's first LED attempt, and these are very comparable results for a first timer. No doubt his yields will improve with more practice with new technology. I carefully looked at the well documented pictures and compared each plant during all stages of development, and I must say; LEDs look quite promising, and all of my doubts have been dispelled. He grew out some rather large plants, proving that you can grow large plants and yield big buds with LEDs, you just have to have the right ones and enough wattage. It's clear that the intensity of light packs on the growth, reducing node spacing, creating more budsites during vegetative growth, and packing on stockier, fuller buds. And in my own opinion, the LED buds got noticeably frostier; awesome trichome development, and without UV supplementation. The HID buds did get longer and larger, but hazy noted that they were much airier and considerably less dense. And in hazy's opinion, the LED buds tasted better and were noticeably more potent. Two out of three taste testers of this crop agreed that the LED bud was superior in certain traits in a blind study, though they each admitted that they were very similar, and chose their favorites based upon preferred minor character traits.

In the second thread, hazy puts the 205 watter together with another 345 watter gifted to him again by LEDGirl for the purposes of comparing it with the 400 watt HPS watt for watt in drawn power. The LEDs drew 455 watts together, and the HID drew 484 watts. Not the same, but close enough to compare watt for watt. And even though the draw was less, the total rating (550 watts) of both LED lamps is greater than the rating of the HPS, so give'n'take; more or less. Hazy didn't list the individual strain weights for this study, but the totals were as follows:

LED: 406.9g; 198.9% of HID; 98.9% more

HID: 204.6g; 50.3% of LED; 49.7% less

That's almost double the yield of HIDs watt for watt! All this to say that while you're uncertain of the spectral angle of your LEDs, Serapis, since the specs. of HTG's lamps are very similar to HGL's, and they're clearly very intense as you've demonstrated, I think you can have a greater modest estimate of what to expect; hope this is a relief in many ways and ups your confidence some, as well as the confidence of other LED growers and those who are looking into it. I'm sure this will be very interesting to many interested parties who're currently watching this journal. And to close with more corroborating evidence, here's a collection of photos from various comparative and non-comparative LED grows on ICMag compiled by LEDGirl:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169532

Enjoy,
The Cannabist Communist

 

[Serapis]

Wow, that is one informative fucking post!! +REP to ya sir. I spent more than a year reading up on LED lighting and what PAR was and angles and I even followed grows. I'm very familiar with the LEDGirl experiments and I believe she sells a very fine product. Have you ever seen her flower room? She must have hundreds of thousands of dollars in LED equipment in there. I didn't need the convincing, as I was convinced when I purchased my first light and was attempting to win a second one at auction.

Thanks for supplying the thread with actual numbers and case examples.

 

[blueberryblitz]

Yeah amazing post c.c. I'm still on the fence, plus gotta wait till after my wedding and such to spend the money but those numbers look great and I at least have the time then to watch grows such as this one and see how they come out, no pressure! I'm sure they are going to work out wonderfully

 

[Serapis]

Yeah amazing post c.c. I'm still on the fence, plus gotta wait till after my wedding and such to spend the money but those numbers look great and I at least have the time then to watch grows such as this one and see how they come out, no pressure! I'm sure they are going to work out wonderfully

I'm not sure why you would still be on the fence after that exhaustive coverage given to LEDs. I hope you are not going to base your entire life's opinion of LEDs, based on my very first grow with them.

 

[Cannabist Communist]

Wow, that is one informative fucking post!! +REP to ya sir. I spent more than a year reading up on LED lighting and what PAR was and angles and I even followed grows. I'm very familiar with the LEDGirl experiments and I believe she sells a very fine product. Have you ever seen her flower room? She must have hundreds of thousands of dollars in LED equipment in there. I didn't need the convincing, as I was convinced when I purchased my first light and was attempting to win a second one at auction.

Thanks for supplying the thread with actual numbers and case examples.

Yeah amazing post c.c. I'm still on the fence, plus gotta wait till after my wedding and such to spend the money but those numbers look great and I at least have the time then to watch grows such as this one and see how they come out, no pressure! I'm sure they are going to work out wonderfully

Wow, thanks very much for the homage, guys. Hooray for my very first +rep! It's nice to be appreciated for one's contributions. I do my best to make helpful contributions, and the effort's fun and it pays off. I'm just so tired of the senseless LED bashing, and I figured some hard facts would be a nice feature to good threads like this to help dispense with some of the general uneasiness going around here. My wife thinks I should be a journalist, because I have immense inquisitive instincts and do a good job of sorting through data, retaining information, and compiling the most compelling facts in a punctual and persuasive manner. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I composed the whole post minus the hard numbers from memory after giving those threads a good once over, and did the extra calculations to determine the percentages and ratios myself. I really hope to make a lasting and positive contribution to RIU, and I aim to please.

I'm glad to hear that you don't need any more convincing. I didn't mean to second guess you, Serapis; you just seem rather unsure of yourself at times. At least, that's the vibe I get from your posts. But I did know that you were very certain of yourself and what you're doing, and it certainly shows in your work; it's very thoroughgoing and confident in its execution. I hope my work shows as much as yours does when I'm finally so fortunate as to render myself the opportunity. I'm doing much to study and learn, and I think I've got a pretty good plan in place thus far. I'm pretty certain I'm going to go with HTG; I haven't seen any completed grows with their equipment yet, but they're the most economically priced LEDs with very similar specs. to the HGL Penetrators, and I've seen great results with those, results which demonstrate that my plan is very compatible with LEDs.

No, I actually did not find any of LEDGirl's grows, but I bet they're spectacular and display proficiency. I'm very happy to know that there are people like that around to give LEDs a good name and reputation. I'd get some of her LEDs, but they're so very expensive. Sadly you still have to pay handsomely to get top shelf LEDs. But I'm sure HTG will satisfy my needs. After all, I'm really not aiming for pounds and pounds; just some modest yields of dense and potent top colas with a closet SoG. I was pretty well convinced of LEDs when I read lots of testimonies claiming equal to increased yields over HIDs, but when I couldn't find detailed studies and pictures of the big buds, my convictions were a bit shaken. Now that I've found better work, I'm very pleased and fully convinced. I can't wait to see what HTG's lamps can do in your hands, Serapis. Good luck to all of you!

Cannabinoidally yours,
The Cannabist Communist

 

[Serapis]

If I seem unsure of anything, it is myself mostly. I'm sure the lights will do the trick.

thanks again for contributing in the thread.

 

[Serapis]

UPDATE:

PROGRESS

I'm happy to announce that we are now in the VEG stage!!

The plant in the white square container is named Runt. She was the smallest until an unfortunate meeting with my new lights. I made the mistake of placing them about a foot from my 10 day old plants and nearly lost them all. Runt survived because she germed way late and was still in the flouro nursery.

Seeds:

Of the 5 moldy peat pellets, one seedling is doing well. One didn't have the strength to lift starter leaves from soil and one germed with NO starter leaves, just a stem. Today, I opened the two dormant pellets and recovered the seeds intact. At 6 bucks a seed and so many failures, I wasn't giving up on them.

I soaked both in distilled water with a drop of SuperThrive in their own cups. When they sank to the bottom, I poured seed and water into a cup full of organic starter. We'll see what happens. I am done using peat pellets. It seems so simple, yet for some reason too many problems occur.

I hope to have 3 seedlings going shortly. My plan is to start flowering the others in about 3 weeks while the seedlings veg under flouros. Once the flowering plants are half way through flower, I'll be introducing the new plants after clones have been taken.

 

[Smrt]

Fish Tank ??? Geuss what ? First time I EVER fre hydroponics was a DWC on my balcony, 2 buckets, 1 with cherry tomatoes and the other with strawberries. What blew me away was that people raved about the insane flavours. My fish tank water was at 1500 ppm cuz of the Oscars someone gave me, so I diluted it to whatever I needed. Fishtank water is awesome food !!! I wish I knew more about it. It's called Aquaponics and it's nothing new. I say go for it if you have an interest, you may surprize the shit out of yourself !

 

[Cannabist Communist]

If I seem unsure of anything, it is myself mostly. I'm sure the lights will do the trick.

thanks again for contributing in the thread.

No problem, man; I'm more 'an happy to contribute and keep it alive and interesting in some small way. Just keep it comin'.

UPDATE:

PROGRESS

I'm happy to announce that we are now in the VEG stage!!

The plant in the white square container is named Runt. She was the smallest until an unfortunate meeting with my new lights. I made the mistake of placing them about a foot from my 10 day old plants and nearly lost them all. Runt survived because she germed way late and was still in the flouro nursery.

Seeds:

Of the 5 moldy peat pellets, one seedling is doing well. One didn't have the strength to lift starter leaves from soil and one germed with NO starter leaves, just a stem. Today, I opened the two dormant pellets and recovered the seeds intact. At 6 bucks a seed and so many failures, I wasn't giving up on them.

I soaked both in distilled water with a drop of SuperThrive in their own cups. When they sank to the bottom, I poured seed and water into a cup full of organic starter. We'll see what happens. I am done using peat pellets. It seems so simple, yet for some reason too many problems occur.

I hope to have 3 seedlings going shortly. My plan is to start flowering the others in about 3 weeks while the seedlings veg under flouros. Once the flowering plants are half way through flower, I'll be introducing the new plants after clones have been taken.

All right, man! You still doin' 24/0? How's that workin' out for ya? Runt's lookin' real healthy. The other two are laggin' behind a bit, but I'm sure they'll come around. Are the ones in the cups the only ones that survived getting vaporized by the LEDs? I sure hope things are more fortunate in the future.

That really sucks about those peat pellets, but I dunno why you'd bother with 'em in the first place; paper towels work just fine, if not better.. Were they free with your order..? Hope you can recoop some of the seeds which were wasted on the pellets, though.

So what exactly is the plan with these babies? Are you gonna select a mother from the strongest and healthiest straight away, or are you gonna flower some cuttings and choose the best phenos? Also, I don't exactly see another chamber for veg; you've talked about keeping mothers, but I don't see where you can keep them. Got another room prepped that you haven't told us about?

I just remembered, you neglected to answer a previous question of mine; did you germinate batches of the same strain, or a mix? I don't see labels, so I'm assuming the former? And which strains do you have germed so far?

 

[Serapis]

If you go back to the very beginning of this thread, I show shots of both chambers. The lower area was sealed off with Panda poly and insulation board. It has an active air intake, a passive exhaust (upper chamber has active, bigger exhaust fan) and is powered by 4 4' 40w 65k cool white plus bulbs. I use it for seedlings and early veging. It'll easily support a mother. The light hoods are on yo-yo lifters.

You might wanna go back and catch the whole story CC. I also turned a large tote into a reservoir for my hand watering, because my tap water is soooo hard. The reservoir has an air pump with air stones and a water pump with a double filter. The bottom has washed pea gravel to capture up any large debris. Keeping the water clear with H2O2, fish tabs and distilled vinegar when necessary.

Everything to date has been Nirvana Bubbleicious. I have my fingers crossed that one of these has the pink bud and bubble gum taste that is sought after. That will be my first mother.

I contacted Nirvana seeds and advised them of the horrible germ rate while using their starter pellets and they have advised they will resend some seeds. Happy days! I don't like the paper towel method because I ran into mold while using it years ago. I'm going to go with cups of water and superthrive. When the seed sinks, I pour it and water into organic starting mix and let mother nature go from there, as intended. Seeds are meant to sow, not layer between paper towels in your cupboard and I'm done trusting peat pellets.