To Top, Or Not Too Top. That Is The ?

[cowboylogic]

That is without a doubt a big factor. We can all buy the same bulb, ballast, hood, nutes, medium, seeds. Follow the very same advice. Try and duplicate to the best of our ability. But when it comes down to brasstacks. We each have our own enviroment, style, needs, expectations and motivation. And I fell flat on my face thinking I could possibly put to rest a bit of this debate. In the process of falling on my face I realized. Topping, Femming, Pruning can double your yield. The key word is 'your'. And associated with 'your' is a recap of the opening line in this post and a bit more. 'Your' enviroment. 'Your' lights. 'Your' nutes. 'Your' medium. 'Your' genetics. I know you are probaly thinking. He already said that. Same, same. Alot of things can be the same. If you want to be a solid grower though. There are just some things you need to make 'Yours'. There is no magic potion to growing a nice plant. The debates seem to arise when someone makes a claim. And the thing is. The claim they make could very well be correct. And most likely it is. Within their garden. Because they have taken the time to "GET THE MOST OUT OF THEIR GROW ENVIROMENT AND RESOURCES AT HAND". Thats how we double our yields. Plus the benefit of sharing on sites such as this.

 

[Lucywu2012]

Aha, you're so funny!

 

[cowboylogic]

Aha, you're so funny!

Not near a funny as you yanking the football back as Charlie kicks at he ball, Lucy. You are as funny in this forum as you are in the cartoons.

 

[cowboylogic]

Back to my rant. Before I post any pictures of the Sharksbreath and Querkle I want to say this.

The SB with 3 tops, one femmed, one Deserts way and one just pruned down low a bit for airflow. I failed again and placed poorly under the light and it has grown accordingly. The Querkle with 2 tops was place a bit better. 1 side pruned and the other left to nature. And the White Russian, 'topped for 4' and left to grow is awful pretty already. I will post some pics this evening when the lights come on.

What I am getting to is this. We top and prune to get the most out of our grow. The most out of the lights we have to work with. The most out of the space we have allowed. The most out of what we know and will learn during a grow.

But to think there is a way to top, prune, lst, supercrop or whatever that will work for everyone to guarantee an increase in yield. I still have to strongly question that. Anytime you take one part of a plant to improve another part of a plant. You are just tranferring what the plant is capable of to begin with. You are just making it fit your space more efficiently. Sorry but there is no way of fooling Mother Nature into doing something she is not capable of doing. Genetic shift and evolution being the only way I know of. And we do have the technology to do this. Just not the personal lifespan to see the true results.

And the fact is. I am incapable of proving either way. But I will keep this journal open and document the grow and results of the 3 plants.

 

[cowboylogic]

And Rat I owe you a big I am sorry. I jumped on you when you were just contributing. My most humble apologizes.

 

[desertrat]

And Rat I owe you a big I am sorry. I jumped on you when you were just contributing. My most humble apologizes.

No worries, I'm so medicated an elephant could step on me and I wouldn't feel it.

What I am getting to is this. We top and prune to get the most out of our grow. The most out of the lights we have to work with. The most out of the space we have allowed.

This is the whole point of my new thread with numbers to back it up. Took me awhile to get to that point of view.

 

[cowboylogic]

Side track grow.............. I have two clones taken 2 weeks apart from a Cole Train freebie. Never grown it. But it cloned and seems to grow pretty carefree. Anyways these are just a couple of leftovers I decided not to toss. Instead put them in the flower room a couple of weeks ago. Veg time and what not is really not going to be important here.
This is more baseline. Transplanting during flower. And how much do roots actually grow during flower? Its going to be pretty simple and straight forward. The clones have both been treated pretty much the same from cutting day, just 2 weeks apart. Rooted in peat pellets. 16 oz. dixie for 10 days or so. Then into the 2qt pots in the pics. Its obvious which is two weeks older. Other than that, they are on the same page. Just over 2 weeks into 12/12.
Do you transplant during flower? How much do the roots really grow?
My thinking on the transition phase, 18/6-12/12. The first 2 weeks are up in the air. Should we stay or should we go? EDIT: After those 2 weeks alot of other factors come into play also.
How they look on top when we peek to see what happened underneath. So the senior will be repotted into a 3 gallon. And the littlest will stay at home.
I think it will be interesting to see if they finish at the same time, how well did the transplant fill the pot with roots, small more food, big pot more frequent water ect...

And sorry about not getting pics up a few evenings ago of the 3 stooges. Got sidetrack, should be able too tonight when lights come on.

 

[DaveCoulier]

I believe they will continue to grow new roots for the first few weeks of flowering.

I came across something about root growth regarding fruit trees. Early on when the fruits are small and in small numbers, there is enough sugars to feed root new growth, but as the fruits demand for sugars grows, the roots have to give up their share, and end up with only enough sugars to sustain themselves, and to not actually grow any more.

I believe the same holds true for our plants. When our plants reach that tipping point I dont know, but the faster your ladies flower, the sooner roots stop growing.

 

[cowboylogic]

I believe they will continue to grow new roots for the first few weeks of flowering.

I came across something about root growth regarding fruit trees. Early on when the fruits are small and in small numbers, there is enough sugars to feed root new growth, but as the fruits demand for sugars grows, the roots have to give up their share, and end up with only enough sugars to sustain themselves, and to not actually grow any more.

I believe the same holds true for our plants. When our plants reach that tipping point I dont know, but the faster your ladies flower, the sooner roots stop growing.

I agree. But these have both been flowering for just over 2 weeks. And when transplanting I saw 3 gal would be way overkill. Decided on a 5qt pot. My same base soil. I was surprised actually at the lack of root mass. Guess it will make it more interesting. Kinda the point of this sidetrack. How much do the roots actually grow during flower.

 

[Rocky Mountain High]

That is without a doubt a big factor. We can all buy the same bulb, ballast, hood, nutes, medium, seeds. Follow the very same advice. Try and duplicate to the best of our ability. But when it comes down to brasstacks. We each have our own enviroment, style, needs, expectations and motivation. And I fell flat on my face thinking I could possibly put to rest a bit of this debate. In the process of falling on my face I realized. Topping, Femming, Pruning can double your yield. The key word is 'your'. And associated with 'your' is a recap of the opening line in this post and a bit more. 'Your' enviroment. 'Your' lights. 'Your' nutes. 'Your' medium. 'Your' genetics. I know you are probaly thinking. He already said that. Same, same. Alot of things can be the same. If you want to be a solid grower though. There are just some things you need to make 'Yours'. There is no magic potion to growing a nice plant. The debates seem to arise when someone makes a claim. And the thing is. The claim they make could very well be correct. And most likely it is. Within their garden. Because they have taken the time to "GET THE MOST OUT OF THEIR GROW ENVIROMENT AND RESOURCES AT HAND". Thats how we double our yields. Plus the benefit of sharing on sites such as this.

Just read the entire journal, thanks for all the good information from you and Da Rat.

I think what you've said here is what's its all about. Find what works best for you and all your factors and considerations.

How do you like the querkle? I let her go from my garden. I do love Subcool's Agent Orange though.

 

[cowboylogic]

Just read the entire journal, thanks for all the good information from you and Da Rat.

I think what you've said here is what's its all about. Find what works best for you and all your factors and considerations.

How do you like the querkle? I let her go from my garden. I do love Subcool's Agent Orange though.

Thanks for checking it out. Random and scattered I know. First time growing Querkle. And yep. His genetics are as solid as his advice. This is the plant I tried to drown when first joining Riddles thread. I prefer to rinse/flood/hang the first 6-8 weeks. Pretty much the whole cure. Then once in the jar, its more of an aging. Ready for the jar anytime now. The few samples have been tasty and promising.

 

[Rocky Mountain High]

Thanks for checking it out. Random and scattered I know. First time growing Querkle. And yep. His genetics are as solid as his advice. This is the plant I tried to drown when first joining Riddles thread. I prefer to rinse/flood/hang the first 6-8 weeks. Pretty much the whole cure. Then once in the jar, its more of an aging. Ready for the jar anytime now. The few samples have been tasty and promising. View attachment 1056107

Nice job on the Querkle, I couldn't get her to yield shit, looks like you got her going good.

On the roots in flowering, I think the roots will continue to grow if they have the space, which is why I usually go smaller pots. My logic is once the plant has a fully developed and strong root system, it can then concentrate it's energy and effort into what's going on top side. I've grown start to finish in 4 inch pots and done well, bitch watering 2 or more times per day, but I've found, for my methods, 2 gallon pots work really well. I do have my Mangos in some 3.5's, but more for the shape and depth than volume. I think the plants work more efficiently with limited root mass, no searching no growing just uptake.

 

[cowboylogic]

Nice job on the Querkle, I couldn't get her to yield shit, looks like you got her going good.

On the roots in flowering, I think the roots will continue to grow if they have the space, which is why I usually go smaller pots. My logic is once the plant has a fully developed and strong root system, it can then concentrate it's energy and effort into what's going on top side. I've grown start to finish in 4 inch pots and done well, bitch watering 2 or more times per day, but I've found, for my methods, 2 gallon pots work really well. I do have my Mangos in some 3.5's, but more for the shape and depth than volume. I think the plants work more efficiently with limited root mass, no searching no growing just uptake.

Pictures can be deceiving. Mine will not be a big yielder. Def not a commercial growers dream.

And as far as the repot/root thing goes. I agree again. I am just curious to see just how it responds. Finish times compared being high on the list.

 

[cowboylogic]

Here is the Sharksbreath, Querkle and White Russian. Pretty much out of space with 3 plants. Sorry for the lazy pics. Just too much work to pull them out for proper pics. I'll save that for when they are worthy.

 

[cowboylogic]

On the roots in flowering, I think the roots will continue to grow if they have the space, which is why I usually go smaller pots. My logic is once the plant has a fully developed and strong root system, it can then concentrate it's energy and effort into what's going on top side. I've grown start to finish in 4 inch pots and done well, bitch watering 2 or more times per day, but I've found, for my methods, 2 gallon pots work really well. I do have my Mangos in some 3.5's, but more for the shape and depth than volume. I think the plants work more efficiently with limited root mass, no searching no growing just uptake.

I agree completely. I am just curious how much energy, if any, will be diverted from bud developement to new root growth. I am thinking with the right diet it can accomplish both. Even though these are 2 weeks apart. They still share the same structure so some comparison should be possible. I just thought it might be some good info for those who end up in a situation they feel tranplant is needed once well into flowering. I will tell you this. Both these Cole Trains already smell amazing!

Heres my thoughts and methods on transplanting around/during flower. I like to have all transplanting done at least a week before beginning transition. Then once about 10 days or so into 12/12 thats it. They are were they will stay for the rest of the grow. I just ride the storm out. Too many things can go wrong with the possibilty of losing the entire plant. Whereas just riding the problem/issue out you are will probaly at least end up with something for your efforts. Smoke and knowledge wise.

And I am going to take some Amnesia Lemon clones today and also pop a few beans. Add a grow journal within a grow journal. I havent done one start to finish yet. Share the works. Medium mix, nutes, lights ect.... Or do you think it would be easier to follow a new journal for this grow?

And our Orange Bud Supercrop put under the CMH on 6/25. Already almost full cloudy with a few amber. It will finish in just over 6 weeks! 50-56 days being the average for me. I will surprised if it makes it 45 days. I will be pulling it out for a big watering this afternoon and will get some updated pics then.

 

[gumball]

Are you saying it will only take you about 45 days to flower the orange bud?

 

[cowboylogic]

Are you saying it will only take you about 45 days to flower the orange bud?

I have grown this strain for over 4 years. All from the same motherplant. Clone to clone to clone ect... and for the most part they usually finish right at 8 wks. This clone was vegged for almost 8 wks so it was a very mature plant. I usually only veg 3 or 4 wks. And yes this particular plant will have flowered and finished in just over 6 wks.

 

[gumball]

Ok, so is it safe to say that SOME plants will flower faster if they have matured a lot? I know that is not a rule, but an exception.

 

[Rocky Mountain High]

I agree completely. I am just curious how much energy, if any, will be diverted from bud developement to new root growth. I am thinking with the right diet it can accomplish both. Even though these are 2 weeks apart. They still share the same structure so some comparison should be possible. I just thought it might be some good info for those who end up in a situation they feel tranplant is needed once well into flowering. I will tell you this. Both these Cole Trains already smell amazing!

Heres my thoughts and methods on transplanting around/during flower. I like to have all transplanting done at least a week before beginning transition. Then once about 10 days or so into 12/12 thats it. They are were they will stay for the rest of the grow. I just ride the storm out. Too many things can go wrong with the possibilty of losing the entire plant. Whereas just riding the problem/issue out you are will probaly at least end up with something for your efforts. Smoke and knowledge wise.

And I am going to take some Amnesia Lemon clones today and also pop a few beans. Add a grow journal within a grow journal. I havent done one start to finish yet. Share the works. Medium mix, nutes, lights ect.... Or do you think it would be easier to follow a new journal for this grow?

And our Orange Bud Supercrop put under the CMH on 6/25. Already almost full cloudy with a few amber. It will finish in just over 6 weeks! 50-56 days being the average for me. I will surprised if it makes it 45 days. I will be pulling it out for a big watering this afternoon and will get some updated pics then.

How many transplants do you normally do? I only do one. Clones go into a 4 inch pot and when approaching rootbound, regardless of whats going on topside, then I transplant to their final pot for the rest of their lives. I think pot size should be coordinated with your veg time/length preference. I like to get 4 weeks in the 2 gallon pots before flowering. For me the race is to fill up the 4 inch pots with roots so they can get their 'real veg time' going in their final pots.

Do you think that limited root mass or rootboundness (is that a word?) helps to control the stretch at all when they hit flowering?

 

[cowboylogic]

Ok, so is it safe to say that SOME plants will flower faster if they have matured a lot? I know that is not a rule, but an exception.

So many things involved. This particular plant/grow went near perfect. The only setback was the supercropping.

Insects, minor def, temp problems ect... are all little setbacks that can lenghten the time it takes a plant to finish. And a plant that is sexually mature and healthy given the right micros (Open Sesame) at the right time will begin to flower within days of the switch to 12/12. Alot of things have to go right in order to have the most efficent grow. Its a rare thing. I just got lucky this time. And have learned how to get the most out of this strain. You never know. Some unknown issue may arise and throw a wrench into the works. Its not finished yet.