hydro setup, plant problems please help, PICTURES!

[rochester88]

Third grow, 1st under hydroponics, this is the first health problems i've run into on this grow, they looked perfect up until right after I dropped them down to 12 hours a day...

5 white widow plants, about 22 days into flowering, they range 1.5-2 ft tall
Setup:
1 400 watt HPS, 2 150 watt HPS, 6 CFL bulbs
Ebb and Flow hydro with 1 airstone in my res running 24 hours, using rockwool cubes that are partially covered by about 4 inches of small pebbles in my flood table...
i usually water them 3 times a day, my nutrients are made by General Hydroponics MaxiBloom, I usually make about 1tsp bloom and .5 tsp veg per gallon of water.

I don't have a ppm meter or a ph meter, but they are ph buffered nutes.

I think originally, I had my 400 watt hps a little too close to plants and they were getting heat stress but I raised it, and the tops of the plants never get above 80 F so I dont think that is the problem anymore...

Generally, I would describe it as curling leaves, cupping around the edges downward, and the edges of the leaves are turning kind of white beige, like they are dying...even in new leaf growths... i feel like more leaves have been falling off as well, 1 of the plants in particular has been extremely battered, the other 4 aren't as bad but range in the level of destruction...please check out pictures and let me know what you think this might be....i will try and answer any questions you may have

 

[RICH83]

Do you use peroxide?

 

[rochester88]

no, what is peroxide for?

 

[rochester88]

put about a half cup of peroxide in my 10 gallon res...
does anybody have any advice as far as what this might be becuase it is really fucking my babies up...
ive flushed them out and given them different nutes levels without much change and im running out of ideas... anybody help me out with this????

 

[smallclosetgrowr]

dont add peroxide , flush and let them recover for a good week atleast then start at 1/3 strng nutes and work your way backup . imo youv added to much nutes looks like a massive case of nute burn judging from where it is on your leaves.

 

[rochester88]

dont add peroxide , flush and let them recover for a good week atleast then start at 1/3 strng nutes and work your way backup . imo youv added to much nutes looks like a massive case of nute burn judging from where it is on your leaves.

so are you saying i should flush and not give them any nutes for a week? just water for a week straight? ive used relatively the same strength the entire time maybe increasing slightly as the plants got older, i just dont get why they didnt show any signs of burn until 2wks into flowering... how can you tell its nute burn based on where it is on the leaves? i appreciate the advice though thank you

 

[smallclosetgrowr]

yes just straight tap water for a few days and u should see them recover , u can allways tell its nute burn coz it starts from the tip and works its way back.what type of nutes are u using ? have u put in any additive's lately ?

 

[Antigen]

I don't have a ppm meter or a ph meter, but they are ph buffered nutes.

Now, I have not ever grown in hydro but from what I've read, you HAVE TO have an EC/PPM meter and good pH meter. By looking at your plants I would say you have big nute deficiencies (most likely Phosphorous) which is probably due to pH problems, not from an actual deficiency of P. You are giving them the nutes they need, they just can't absorb them. You also need the PPM meter to know how much you are feeding, so you don't over/under feed. I don't think you can just 'go by the bottle' like you do in soil, with hydro you have to monitor these levels and make sure they stay within range. Someone who does hydro will have to tell you the correct PPM numbers since I'm not too familiar with that, but here is a chart that shows the pH levels that different nutes will lock out at. Use the bottom chart for hydro, you need a pH of right around 5.8.



See how Phosphorous and Potassium are in the red (locked out) if your pH is 6.0 or higher? If you don't know what the pH of your water is you won't be able to tell what steps you should take next. If you have just been using tap water, I know the pH of that is way above 6.0 and would explain why your plants look the way they do. Don't give them any more tap water until you can measure it and adjust it to the correct pH. It will only make your problem worse.

I would order/go buy a good EC/PPM meter and pH meter ASAP, those are in my opinion absolutely necessary tools for growing hydro.

 

[sabres2937]

Impossible to grow w/o your meters. I tried many times, and failed every time. Save yourself time and money to by not buying the cheapest meters out there either, lol.

 

[smallclosetgrowr]

you can grow fine without your meters my brothers been doing it for years and gets healthy plants all the time me and the other hand i have a ph pen but an EC pen isnt nessecary if u thru out your res water every 2weeks.

 

[ympb]

Now, I have not ever grown in hydro but from what I've read, you HAVE TO have an EC/PPM meter and good pH meter. By looking at your plants I would say you have big nute deficiencies (most likely Phosphorous) which is probably due to pH problems, not from an actual deficiency of P. You are giving them the nutes they need, they just can't absorb them. You also need the PPM meter to know how much you are feeding, so you don't over/under feed. I don't think you can just 'go by the bottle' like you do in soil, with hydro you have to monitor these levels and make sure they stay within range. Someone who does hydro will have to tell you the correct PPM numbers since I'm not too familiar with that, but here is a chart that shows the pH levels that different nutes will lock out at. Use the bottom chart for hydro, you need a pH of right around 5.8.

View attachment 1025229

See how Phosphorous and Potassium are in the red (locked out) if your pH is 6.0 or higher? If you don't know what the pH of your water is you won't be able to tell what steps you should take next. If you have just been using tap water, I know the pH of that is way above 6.0 and would explain why your plants look the way they do. Don't give them any more tap water until you can measure it and adjust it to the correct pH. It will only make your problem worse.

I would order/go buy a good EC/PPM meter and pH meter ASAP, those are in my opinion absolutely necessary tools for growing hydro.

I'm dealing with the same problems on a much less serious level.

I totally agree with this poster.

I think your going to have to get a meter and watch your ph. I was keeping my ph at 5.5-5.8 and getting twisting leaves. I'm now going about 5.7-6.2 trying to work both ends of the optimum range. I'm giving my plant the right nutes at about 1400 ppm, I think the ph is keeping them from working right.

I've read these forums until I'm cross eyed and have not found a lot of good answers. I bought three books and they all said 5.5-6.5 ph with 5.8 to 6.2 being optimal. I see a lot of guys having great results at 5.5-5.8 but I'm not seeing it. I'm going to go with the books for a while.

I'm working on perfecting the whole system to get maximum yeild. I had to reduce my crop by almost half do to room and certain federal mandatory minimums(not worth the risk in my opinion).

I'm also flushing with light nute solution every two weeks to combat toxic salts build up. I also use h202 with good results.

Things seem to be improving.

I'm learning myself right now. So take my advice for what it's worth...not much.

Good luck.

The first pics are from a week ago. The rest a few minutes ago... I'm doing a SOG Al B. Fuct style.The first set are now in there 4th week of flowering, the second is in it's 2nd. I'm trying to get it all dialed in by the third or fourth set....

 

[RICH83]

Your ph should be 5.8-6.8 you need to check it!!!!!! Normally in hydro you will have to either ph up or ph down throughout the week!!!!!!!!!!! Once you change your res and add nutes check your ph then check it again in a couple of days see if the ph is going down or up. If it is going down start your ph high like 6.8 and then it will go down during the week. You really don't want to ad either ph up or ph down more than one single time in every res change.and you dont want to ph up and ph down in the same res!!! I

 

[rochester88]

yes just straight tap water for a few days and u should see them recover , u can allways tell its nute burn coz it starts from the tip and works its way back.what type of nutes are u using ? have u put in any additive's lately ?

General Hydroponics MaxiBloom and MaxiVeg, ph buffered...
as for additives, i have not, what might you recommend? ive thought into this but this is my first hydro grow and i am not familiar with additives...

 

[rochester88]

Now, I have not ever grown in hydro but from what I've read, you HAVE TO have an EC/PPM meter and good pH meter. By looking at your plants I would say you have big nute deficiencies (most likely Phosphorous) which is probably due to pH problems, not from an actual deficiency of P. You are giving them the nutes they need, they just can't absorb them. You also need the PPM meter to know how much you are feeding, so you don't over/under feed. I don't think you can just 'go by the bottle' like you do in soil, with hydro you have to monitor these levels and make sure they stay within range. Someone who does hydro will have to tell you the correct PPM numbers since I'm not too familiar with that, but here is a chart that shows the pH levels that different nutes will lock out at. Use the bottom chart for hydro, you need a pH of right around 5.8.


View attachment 1025229

See how Phosphorous and Potassium are in the red (locked out) if your pH is 6.0 or higher? If you don't know what the pH of your water is you won't be able to tell what steps you should take next. If you have just been using tap water, I know the pH of that is way above 6.0 and would explain why your plants look the way they do. Don't give them any more tap water until you can measure it and adjust it to the correct pH. It will only make your problem worse.

I would order/go buy a good EC/PPM meter and pH meter ASAP, those are in my opinion absolutely necessary tools for growing hydro.

i appreciate the detailed response and help, i was planning on just replacing my res every couple weeks, and flushing as well as a means of controlling ph, i understand that you may run into problems with nutrient lock out whcih i must say i have no knowledge of prior to checking out your chart... i figured i would correct problems by making a new res however as you can see that isnt exactly working...
that chart you posted is very helpful, thanks!
however, i dont really understand the significance or how to use ppm in making my solution...i guess i cant avoid nutrient lockout without knowing the ph, but i i know the manufacturer (General Hydroponics) has a feeding chart listed and that is how ive been feeding thus far...
the ppm listed from my manufacturer are: Aggressive Growth 1200-1400ppm (18 hr), Early Flowering 1000-1400ppm (12 hr), Mid Flowering 1000-1400ppm (12 hr); as you can see my ppm were supposed to have gone up steadily from cuttings throughout flowering, which is why i dont see how i didnt run into problems earlier because ive been following the manufactures feeding guide exactly and didnt have a bit of leaf burn or discoloration until a couple weeks into flowering... thus i am confused, but i appreciate the advice and detailed resopnse!

 

[rochester88]

solution as of now:

ive cleaned out and disinfected the flood table, res, pump/hose and then i took all the plants and sprayed off the rockwool cubes real well, and ran them under water for awhile so as to minimize salt buildup...
problem i keep running into is that my rockwool cubes are difficult to cover from light, anyone have any suggestions on how to keep my rockwool cubes covered? i currently have about 10 pounds of pebbles in my floodtable which i try and use to cover the cubes and keep them from moving around... they work somewhat well but i find that algae starts to buildup along the top of the cube...

anyways, im going to run them with straight water for at least a few days, see how they react and then gradually work them back up on nutes, maybe 1/3 strength of what i was doing before...
i appreciate everyones help and advice and i apologize for ranting on here bout my plans, but i figure i have much to learn...thanks again

 

[downhillbill]

Third grow, 1st under hydroponics, this is the first health problems i've run into on this grow, they looked perfect up until right after I dropped them down to 12 hours a day...

5 white widow plants, about 22 days into flowering, they range 1.5-2 ft tall
Setup:
1 400 watt HPS, 2 150 watt HPS, 6 CFL bulbs
Ebb and Flow hydro with 1 airstone in my res running 24 hours, using rockwool cubes that are partially covered by about 4 inches of small pebbles in my flood table...
i usually water them 3 times a day, my nutrients are made by General Hydroponics MaxiBloom, I usually make about 1tsp bloom and .5 tsp veg per gallon of water.

I don't have a ppm meter or a ph meter, but they are ph buffered nutes.

I think originally, I had my 400 watt hps a little too close to plants and they were getting heat stress but I raised it, and the tops of the plants never get above 80 F so I dont think that is the problem anymore...

Generally, I would describe it as curling leaves, cupping around the edges downward, and the edges of the leaves are turning kind of white beige, like they are dying...even in new leaf growths... i feel like more leaves have been falling off as well, 1 of the plants in particular has been extremely battered, the other 4 aren't as bad but range in the level of destruction...please check out pictures and let me know what you think this might be....i will try and answer any questions you may have

You"re just flat out over feeding them. Your water may or may not be a problem. You don't know because you don't have a meter to test it. In hydro the best water to use is RO. People who say just use tap water because theirs works fine don't know what your water has in it. My water starts out at 800ppm. That would seriously hurt my plants. I RO my water down to 30ppm, add nutes (House and Garden) at half the scheduled amount and pH the res to 6.0.
Get some distilled water, add the appropriate amount of GH Flora Clean for final flush, pH to 6.0, drain your res and scrub it clean. Add your solution of Flora Clean and leave it in there for 4-7 days. PH after they wake-up to 6.0 and before they go to bed. You should have to top-off each day with same solution. the more you have to top-off the more they're drinking. That's a good thing.
You have to have a meter. Can not do hydro without one, anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they're talking about. Chart pH and ppm every time you test. You can tell when they're eating, you can tell when they're drinking. That way you know what they need on a daily basis.
If this helps and you need more help just ask.