Ferts-to-Flush: When should one discontinue nutes during flowering?

moops

Active Member
I find it hard to go by breeders' recommendations for flowering time, and have learned to stick with watching the percentage of amber trichromes.

That being said, it's hard to know when to discontinue giving flowering fertilizer. A plant could be ready at seven weeks; a plant could be ready at ten or even eleven weeks.

What I DON'T want to do is end up giving nutes and discover that a plant is ready for harvest sooner than I thought - too many nutes in the soil means a much longer time spent curing to get out that crappy taste.

Should one end flowering nutes (e.g. Tiger Bloom, Big Bloom, etc.) at around six weeks, and continue adding water with molasses? And what would happen if the plant needed to go to ten weeks?
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Well I feed em till the end, since it gives the plant what it needs and gives me bigger buds, As I understand you can't flush nutes out of the plant (only the soil) Nutes within the plant are turned into other things and if you stop feedin the plant will just eat itself (fan leaves dying) which reduses your yield.

My 2 cents, prolly not what you want to hear
 

usedbagle

New Member
My 2 cents, prolly not what you want to hear[/QUOTE]

yeah no; shit is in your plant fan leaves getting eaten up means it cleared out. flush the last two waterings of the whole grow. you gotta know when the nugs are just about done and do it when they have less about a week left so it can dry twice with plain water flushes. I leave it in the dark the last day or two
 

moops

Active Member
all i want is a plant that has no chemical nutes when i harvest. a 5% increased harvest with buds that will taste like ferts isn't worth it to me.

although molasses isn't fertilizer, will it prevent severe nutrient deficiencies in the last two weeks of flowering?
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
all i want is a plant that has no chemical nutes when i harvest. a 5% increased harvest with buds that will taste like ferts isn't worth it to me.

although molasses isn't fertilizer, will it prevent severe nutrient deficiencies in the last two weeks of flowering?

If you use high quality nutes and properly cure your buds there is no fert taste!
 

usedbagle

New Member
No, it means the plant is starving. Flushing does nothing but stresses and starves your plant and hinders its yield.
you starve it at the end to clear out fertilizer your plants done basically yield is already there by the time you flush it dont smoke fertilizer dude
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
you starve it at the end to clear out fertilizer your plants done basically yield is already there by the time you flush it dont smoke fertilizer dude
That is just so wrong, learn basic botany there are no ferts in the plant, they are converted to other things, it's all about how you cure it
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
you starve it at the end to clear out fertilizer your plants done basically yield is already there by the time you flush it dont smoke fertilizer dude

Got any science to back that up or are you just repeating some myth you read on here? You do realize that some nutrients are immobile, dont you?
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.


Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.


Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle.
Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
 

usedbagle

New Member
flush it get it at the right time... obviously you dont just let it sit there completly difficient for weeks but unless you want fert ingredients in your plant flush it till it gets its sun leaves yellow on its last day and yank those perfect nugs nitrates are bad for your lungs
 
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