Outlaw pot growers in California fear legalization

[10jed]

I can tell you with a certainty since I knew someone on the inside....back in the 70's weed came VERY CLOSE to being legalized....and the tobacco companies were all rigged up and ready to go. Labels were already designed....just kept under wraps.

They are prepared now for the OPPORTUNITY to expand their customer base.

I don't doubt that they have a plan. My comment on the prerolled thing is based on what I have read about the U-Miss government pot farm. They send out their "regs" to be rolled off-site in a cig rolling establishment and when they want to deliver their high-test, which is only like 8% thc, they have to hand roll it at the university. I'm sure the cig makers have a plan, but lets see if they would actually be able to inundate it. Certainly they wouldn't be able to produce consistent top quality like the Cali boys are known for. To do it on a grand scale like they would be attempting would be impossible. From a national standpoint I see it like beer... you have miller and bud but also a lot of micros. Those willing to spend a bit more get the good stuff. My personal estimates for nation wide consumption, based on what the DEA seizes (1,457,187 lbs seized in 2008 ) and what they feel they are missing (70-80% more than what they catch) is around 20 million pounds per year. That is a shit ton of weed. that would be 20 big national business entities providing 5,000 lbs per year and, say 50,000 local businesses providing 200 lbs per year and then another 10,000 regional businesses providing 1,000 pounds per year. That is a lot of business to go around! I certainly don't know if my estimates are correct or if they would lay it out like it works in my mind, but regardless we are talking a shit ton of weed, and a shit ton of legal jobs.

Jed

 

[CrackerJax]

I knew a fellow named Fred, who was one of the very few still getting "treatment" from Mississippi. Glaucoma of course......definitely not something I would trade for govt. weed, but killing that program was a mistake and a half. I only smoked with him a few times when he offered it. Sharing meant reducing his actual needed medicine, so I knew he liked me... It was kick arse weed...!

 

[mjisgood21]

I watched "How weed won the west" & it was said in the 80's,Phillip morris bought over 50,000 acres of land in the emerald triangle in northern cali.Same place pineapple kush is grown.Its said at 5:56.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxiPUBq5xTo

 

[colbalt...blue]

As soon as it went from hippies growing in the mountains and selling by the lid for $100, to mafia, cartels, and thugs, the dream of decriminalization was no longer possible. Most of us who run personal grows are doing it to specifically avoid all of that, and get the quality/variety we want. As much as I like the thought of treating weed like any other plant you would grow in your garden, that just won't ever happen. It is either going to be legalized and regulated or left as it is. Decriminalization would just make the criminal element kick it up a notch in terms of maintaining territories and overall violence.

Jed

good post, i see your point that decriminalization could strengthen the criminal element, but it is could. if people are free to grow and smoke weed coz it isn't an offense then why would they buy from a potentially violent dealer. short supply and discretion would no longer be factors when sourcing weed. what are the cartels going to do roll up with a truck full and demand people buy it? with decriminalization surely the cartels would be breaking the law, and as such be at a disadvantage, especially if people know they can visit a friend in a relaxed environment if they need a smoke.

reading this back it does sound a bit dreamy ... and naive ... suppose i'm just trying say i don't want corporations even looking at MJ. you mentioned beers and micro brews ... have you seen "beer wars"? if not i recommend you do as soon as. if you draw parallels between how they control the distribution, place their spoiler brands and legally harass small breweries with how they could seek to spoil and profit from MJ then i think you will understand my concerns.

yeah the woman who made "beer wars" is cute, funny as fuck but most importantly knows the business inside out, awesome watch ... recommended.

 

[10jed]

good post, i see your point that decriminalization could strengthen the criminal element, but it is could. if people are free to grow and smoke weed coz it isn't an offense then why would they buy from a potentially violent dealer. short supply and discretion would no longer be factors when sourcing weed. what are the cartels going to do roll up with a truck full and demand people buy it? with decriminalization surely the cartels would be breaking the law, and as such be at a disadvantage, especially if people know they can visit a friend in a relaxed environment if they need a smoke.

reading this back it does sound a bit dreamy ... and naive ... suppose i'm just trying say i don't want corporations even looking at MJ. you mentioned beers and micro brews ... have you seen "beer wars"? if not i recommend you do as soon as. if you draw parallels between how they control the distribution, place their spoiler brands and legally harass small breweries with how they could seek to spoil and profit from MJ then i think you will understand my concerns.

yeah the woman who made "beer wars" is cute, funny as fuck but most importantly knows the business inside out, awesome watch ... recommended.

I will check that out. I'm sure there would be wars between the "classes" of growers but what type of business doesn't have that? By your posts, you strike me as a super nice person who probably treats people like you yourself want to be treated. I consider myself that type of person... Business is a different thing. I have worked directly under multiple business owners who were the nicest people in the world. Super generous and just wonderful, giving humans. In the business world they are assholes and will do anything within the sharp lines of the law to make more profit. I can't do that and I bet you cant either... most of us happy smokers have troubles following the "business is war" logic. That is the reality of the business world though.

As for my decriminalization debunking, and your hippie pipe dream... When you think of decriminalization you think of growing, selling, giving, transporting, smoking and doing whatever with no laws saying you can't. I think of decrim like it is used now in decriminalized states. Illegal to grow or sell but under 1 ounce is a $100 ticket. Now you can see how my logic brings control to the criminals, and I see where your logic goes on that. I don't ever foresee our government or the people of our country as a whole, agreeing to any of this without having control over distribution or without seeing any taxes from it. I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

Jed

 

[colbalt...blue]

In the business world they are assholes and will do anything within the sharp lines of the law to make more profit. I can't do that and I bet you cant either... most of us happy smokers have troubles following the "business is war" logic. That is the reality of the business world though.

As for my decriminalization debunking, and your hippie pipe dream... When you think of decriminalization you think of growing, selling, giving, transporting, smoking and doing whatever with no laws saying you can't. I think of decrim like it is used now in decriminalized states. Illegal to grow or sell but under 1 ounce is a $100 ticket. Now you can see how my logic brings control to the criminals, and I see where your logic goes on that. I don't ever foresee our government or the people of our country as a whole, agreeing to any of this without having control over distribution or without seeing any taxes from it. I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

Jed

absolutely, i see where you're coming from on the decrim issue.

i am very aware of the way people deal in business. the fine line of the law, but jed are "the people as a whole" aware that the rules of business are being set by the 1% who hold most of the resources? rather like the person who is ahead in a game of monopoly suddenly being given the authority to change the rules at any point? now obviously the rules are kept to appear as "descent" and "rational" as possible coz you don't want the other players to tip the board game over in disgust.

as long as "the people as a whole" continue to judge issues along political and moral lines instead of questioning the motives of the individual voices, "the people as a whole" will be subject misdirection and division.

if i play the game i too could have the beautiful houses, cars and big titted wife. the rules of the game allow me to exploit other people and resources, i can cause misery but hey, i'm only living the dream, playing the game. my point, and it's simple ... resources make us feel secure thus happy ... we are addicts. do we continue to cause misery to others whilst fooling ourselves that we are not responsible or do we face up to ours fears of feeling insecure, of losing complete control and find a way to deal with our addiction and super addicts, the "financially ill"?

"capitalism" is a must see, have you seen it? forget whether you respect micheal moore, judge it on it's merits, not along party lines. i love the bit about the "dead peasants" policies ... [/end of pipe dream]

 

[ultraviolet pirate]

threads like this- real discussion- is why i like RUI.

 

[10jed]

absolutely, i see where you're coming from on the decrim issue.

i am very aware of the way people deal in business. the fine line of the law, but jed are "the people as a whole" aware that the rules of business are being set by the 1% who hold most of the resources? rather like the person who is ahead in a game of monopoly suddenly being given the authority to change the rules at any point? now obviously the rules are kept to appear as "descent" and "rational" as possible coz you don't want the other players to tip the board game over in disgust.

as long as "the people as a whole" continue to judge issues along political and moral lines instead of questioning the motives of the individual voices, "the people as a whole" will be subject misdirection and division.

if i play the game i too could have the beautiful houses, cars and big titted wife. the rules of the game allow me to exploit other people and resources, i can cause misery but hey, i'm only living the dream, playing the game. my point, and it's simple ... resources make us feel secure thus happy ... we are addicts. do we continue to cause misery to others whilst fooling ourselves that we are not responsible or do we face up to ours fears of feeling insecure, of losing complete control and find a way to deal with our addiction and super addicts, the "financially ill"?

"capitalism" is a must see, have you seen it? forget whether you respect micheal moore, judge it on it's merits, not along party lines. i love the bit about the "dead peasants" policies ... [/end of pipe dream]

Yeah, I here ya! This is pretty much a thread jack at this point based on this thread being a discussion about the California L&R initiative, but I do agree with what you are saying.

When all is said and done, I hope the Cali growers find a way to fit in and be sucessful. Especially the ones who do it for the love of the plant and the community, though I question the percentage of comercial growers who really are in it for that. I think it is terrible that communities like Humboldt have to look at legalization-ACTUAL FRIGGIN LEGALIZATION- as something that could negatively effect their lives. I hope that more than not have the ability to see the big picture, the enthusiasm to make this their dream, and the intestinal fortitude to ride through the early times when it will certainly be a tough road to travel. Lets just hope!

Jed

 

[colbalt...blue]

I watched "How weed won the west" & it was said in the 80's,Phillip morris bought over 50,000 acres of land in the emerald triangle in northern cali.Same place pineapple kush is grown.Its said at 5:56.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxiPUBq5xTo

cheers for the link, ploughing my way through it atm.

hey jed, quite correct i am a bit off topic, i too hope the cali growers make a smart call. it could be that the smartest proposal along with the reasoning is not on the table for the choosing. dammed if they do and dammed if they don't?

 

[CrackerJax]

One would think that with the economic nightmare that California has become, the govt. would be chomping at the bit to sedate the population....

Free Opium!!!

 

[tinyTURTLE]

all i can say is: it would be nice to be able to grow my own stash without fear or anything negative like that.
i could make my own beer if i wanted. I can grow mint for tea if i want to settle my stomach or something.
I can even prescribe myself potentialy harmful NSAID anti-inflamatories such as naproxen and ibuprofen.
If i wanted to I could go into a store and buy enough of any of dozens of products to kill myself if used irresponsibly.
There's just this one plant i want to grow that isn't even poisonous or invasive.
You could die if you fell into a badass blackberry bush, just nick an artery and you have mere minutes to live. with weed you would literaly have to sharpen it and
purposfully pierce a vital organ in order to make it fatal. it's stupid that it's illegal. enough is enough.

 

[CrackerJax]

I hate to think that is takes a state's bankruptcy to get weed legalized..... that's a terrible interaction.

 

[cannatari]

Here is a story I posted yesterday out of the current Rollingstone:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/32873354/marijuanamerica
Here is the RIU discussion:
https://www.rollitup.org/politics/316333-marijuanamerica.html
Being in Cali myself let me say that the best dank comes from Oakland, not Humboldt. The MMJ dispensaries in Cali are only willing to pay $1000/lb for outdoor because people want indoor.

An inside source told me a few years ago that Phillip Morris will begin shipping pre-rolled joints within 24 hours of legalization. The weed has been paid for, the packaging is already printed. The corporate giants will be in a mad scramble to supply you with your first over-the-counter box of joints.

My personal opinion on the Humboldt growers is that they ultimately are going to be employees of big tobacco, still a good job. They're still better off than the Mexican drug cartels who will get completely shafted from legalization....yay!

These things are the price paid for California to stop imprisoning everyday people. So I ask you Humboldt growers if you think the value of your product is worth the incarceration of thousands of Californians? Will you convert your illegal pot growing business to an illegal export business because the law has no means to serve your adgendas?

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes....and this was the case for weed in the 70's...big tobacco was all set up then too.

Make no mistake...if it goes legal...at some point only the big boys will be allowed to do the growing.

 

[dirtnap411]

I personally would love to see it legal, lots of people will be released from prison, and thousands will be spared the devastating results of incarceration.

 

[CrackerJax]

Interesting thought....would the new law be retroactive on those already sentenced?

Hmmm... I don't know.

 

[cannatari]

Interesting thought....would the new law be retroactive on those already sentenced?

Hmmm... I don't know.

Right, just like when Prop 215 was passed in '96, there was alot of grey area. It was still a couple of years before someone figured out how to open a bonafide dispensary.

 

[CrackerJax]

I started a thread the other day on a story in Cali....where the cops have no guidelines anymore....they don't know what to do!!

the problem is.... all of these cases they work on and then are thrown out of court costs a BROKE state like Cali... $$$$....for nothing.

The gray area is already in place.... clarification is needed now.

 

[colbalt...blue]

I started a thread the other day on a story in Cali....where the cops have no guidelines anymore....they don't know what to do!!

the problem is.... all of these cases they work on and then are thrown out of court costs a BROKE state like Cali... $$$$....for nothing.

The gray area is already in place.... clarification is needed now.

maybe they could solve crime or something?... don't know what else to suggest.

 

[CrackerJax]

Hahha! Right?

Those poor bastards can only operate with rules... They need some RULES!!