Im surprised
- Thread starter Sam Green
- Start date
undertheice
Well-Known Member
it's not so much that they are republicans or right wingers, but that they believe there is a link between all of our rights and that discrimination against any one of us leads to discrimination against us all. the left has become the realm of big government socialism and that is the very sort of ideology that led to this insane prohibition in the first place. our freedom to grow and consume cannabis is just a small part of the freedoms we are constantly losing to the totalitarian tendencies of big government and the responsible use of our favorite herb is just a small part of the greater concept of personal responsibility that seems to have become the nearly exclusive domain of conservative ideology.
delstele
Well-Known Member
What is so wrong with socialism? Western Europe largely tolerates cannabis use and cultivation as long as it is on the personal level. They also beat the US in pretty much every measurable category from happiness to life expectancy.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
blah blah.
Barney Frank has tried to get legislation to legalize marijuana, and I don't see the 'libertarians' or republicans, or whatever it is everyone is calling themselves today to not be confused with what they called themselves a decade ago (republicans), coming to his aid.
Gay rights, yeah that is a right wing ideology. Same with people that are in this country, albeit illegally having to be given the boot, that is all about right wingers helping them come to a better way of life.
Then after a while, it is all government that is inherently evil, and that they are somehow trying to pull out all of our money, and rights.
All bullshit.
If life sucks it is because we did not take good enough advantage of the systems we have in place to improve it. No amount of taxes can account for how bad it is at times. How you only have one computer, and internet to bitch about it on. How somebody is fighting a stupid war and dying is somehow one party or anothers fault.
Dumb decisions can be made by any side at any time. And to continue with the left bashing is just as stupid as it was for the last 6 years of Bushes term when everyone was right bashing.
Just like it will be just as stupid in either 3 or 7 years when Obama is not president if a republican is in office and the right bashing starts again.
People need to cheer up and realize they don't even know who you are, so how can they want to destroy what you have in life?
Barney Frank has tried to get legislation to legalize marijuana, and I don't see the 'libertarians' or republicans, or whatever it is everyone is calling themselves today to not be confused with what they called themselves a decade ago (republicans), coming to his aid.
Gay rights, yeah that is a right wing ideology. Same with people that are in this country, albeit illegally having to be given the boot, that is all about right wingers helping them come to a better way of life.
Then after a while, it is all government that is inherently evil, and that they are somehow trying to pull out all of our money, and rights.
All bullshit.
If life sucks it is because we did not take good enough advantage of the systems we have in place to improve it. No amount of taxes can account for how bad it is at times. How you only have one computer, and internet to bitch about it on. How somebody is fighting a stupid war and dying is somehow one party or anothers fault.
Dumb decisions can be made by any side at any time. And to continue with the left bashing is just as stupid as it was for the last 6 years of Bushes term when everyone was right bashing.
Just like it will be just as stupid in either 3 or 7 years when Obama is not president if a republican is in office and the right bashing starts again.
People need to cheer up and realize they don't even know who you are, so how can they want to destroy what you have in life?
Dragline
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me? It is classic right wing social conservatism at its finest that gave us prohibition of both cannabis and alcohol. Even today while Democrats and real Libertarians give us resolutions supporting mmj and legalization, it is social conservative Republicans leading the fight AGAINST such. To claim otherwise is simply delusional.
doc111
Well-Known Member
This isn't a socialist nation. We are a democratic republic. We have elements of socialism already. Socialism breeds mediocrity. If you have everything handed to you then what incentive is there to work hard and better yourself? Why do so many people want a handout?
doc111
Well-Known Member
You evidently need a history lesson. It was outlawed under FDR, a staunch progressive and democrat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis
golddog
Well-Known Member
Let's see .....
in '68 I thought I was in High School
in '72 I thought I was in the U.S. Army
Then, I thought I was a Hippie, went to college , then cut my hair got a job.
My son looks at our old videos and scrap books and he says I was a REDNECK !
Go figure, I don't know what I am, I am just a collection of experiences.
Peace -
in '68 I thought I was in High School
in '72 I thought I was in the U.S. Army
Then, I thought I was a Hippie, went to college , then cut my hair got a job.
My son looks at our old videos and scrap books and he says I was a REDNECK !
Go figure, I don't know what I am, I am just a collection of experiences.
Peace -
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I don't really know if going by turn of the century party titles really works to describe the current parties.
Add that to the fact nothing in politics is very fast moving it is very hard to say who actually did the regulations unless you are dedicating a lot of your life to studying that particular event and following and researching it through its history.
Similar to the fact that Clinton revoking some banking regulations, but they were in the works of being dismantled for decades before it actually was put into legal changes and are still not done being adjusted under Obama so it really will be about a 40 year change in the regulation of the banking industry before it is all said and done. We really should just know that everyone was a part of the injustices/stupidity of the past and present.
Add that to the fact nothing in politics is very fast moving it is very hard to say who actually did the regulations unless you are dedicating a lot of your life to studying that particular event and following and researching it through its history.
Similar to the fact that Clinton revoking some banking regulations, but they were in the works of being dismantled for decades before it actually was put into legal changes and are still not done being adjusted under Obama so it really will be about a 40 year change in the regulation of the banking industry before it is all said and done. We really should just know that everyone was a part of the injustices/stupidity of the past and present.
abe23
Active Member
And you obviously need to go read a newspaper....
Virtually EVERY republican elected to national office support continued prohibition with the notable exception of ron paul (who I love, not because I agree with him generally, but because he's not a hypocrite like all the rest...) while most 'liberal democrats' support decriminalization or legalization.
They were all up arms about the justice department not prosecuting mmj cases when holder testified in front of a senate committee not too long ago.
A lot of people republicans love to romanticize the reagan period and demonizing marijuana is all part of that. This, my good friends, is the reason we all face arrest and prosecution. Not FDR....
doc111
Well-Known Member
OK I'm convinced.
Both sides are for the most part against legalization. With the exception of Barney Frank I cannot think of one single dem who openly supports legalization. You seem to live in a fantasy world where democrats all favor legalization and it's the big bad republicans who block it at every turn. Some of you libs need to open your eyes to the truth. Neither side wants it legalized. It was a democratic president who made it illegal yet you seem to ignore that fact and want to put it all off on the republicans. I can't think of a single democratic pres or a single repub pres who has tried to legalize weed. What say you? 
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
People who describe themselves as conservatives outnumber people who describe themselves as liberals two to one. I would say the same ratio applies to people on riu, it's just that more liberals post about politics so this forum seems about 50/50.
Dragline
Well-Known Member
I believe it is you that needs the history lesson. Conservatism and Liberalism are ideologies. Republican and Democrat are just political parties. I said nothing about Republicans being responsible for Prohibition. I said social conservatism was responsible, and that goes ESPECIALLY for alcohol. Cannabis I think was more about money and racism. But today it is predominately social conservative Republicans leading the fight against any sort of legalization. Thats just a fact.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
in case you haven't noticed, the united states is not europe and its people do not have the same limited expectations that europeans do. this country was not built on the backs of serfs with little hope for more than being taken care of by their betters, but by ordinary men and women who wished to expand their own horizons. our period of allowing slavery lasted only about one hundred years, as opposed to the hundreds of years that it was allowed to flourish in many european nations. unlike the major european powers, we didn't travel the globe to plant our flag on other shores and claim that land for our own. our history and our goals are of a different sort, our people demand the freedom to do as they please instead of merely being allowed to do so by an omnipotent state.
that is exactly what's wrong with socialism, it consists of the supreme state doling out liberty to a subservient populace. it demands a herd mentality that degrades the best of the human spirit and stunts the growth of the individual. there may be those who are quite happy to live in slavery, but this country was founded for those who are willing to fight for something better and to die, if necessary, as free men. our record is far from spotless, but the underlying theme of the individual liberty of our citizens is a constant throughout our history. while europe suckled at the teat of a prospering america, no one bitched about this so-called american imperialism. as long as we provided a strong arm for those flagging powers to lean on, we were flattered and used and reviled only behind our backs. now that we have begun to age and our own power does not seem quite so vibrant, we are supposed to fall in line with the other has-beens and fall back on this modern form of the feudalism of old.
it is only recently that mediocrity has become such a priority within our culture. the much touted equality our forefathers sought has come to mean that the great should be brought down instead of the lowly being allowed to flourish, that success should be vilified and those who excel be forced to serve the masses. the mob, the dictatorship of the proletariat, glorifies that mediocrity and the totalitarian tendencies of the socialist state builds its power on the backs of the mob. being allowed access to cannabis, as some europeans are, is a sorry substitute for having the natural right to live our lives as we see fit, as was promised all citizens by this country's constitution and the intent of its founders.
Man o' the green
Active Member
I agree with undertheice.
I think there is a direct relationship between freedom-loving people and growing. I would not call them republicans or right-wingers. Probably closer to anarchists than either party.
The effort to legalize mj is only a side consideration, while the loss of much more significant rights dominates conservative concerns. MJ will be legal once we get some sensible people in office of some party, I'm not worried about it happening tomorrow or what party supports it ( or not ) only for political reasons.
Gay rights and abortion rights is something that the "religious" right is very concerned about, but anyone who is truly concerned about freedom does not share this philosophy. Illegal aliens have broken the law, as many people have. Is the law just ? Like mj, it makes very little difference unless it impacts my freedom or security. Social conservatism robs individuals of their rights as well as any controlling policy of the left, including taxes.
All government IS inherently evil and they ARE trying to take all our money and rights.
It is an evil we cannot live without, but we have the ability to control it. ( at the moment )
The curse of government is that it always tries to grow. There are always people who buy into the philosophy of just a little more, just a little tweaking, and eventually you have a government with power OVER the people. Even the founders knew this. This was the whole point of the constitution - limited government.
The reason that there is left-bashing is not that it's a game of words ( my party is better than yours
) , and not that the republicans don't deserve bashing either, but because their fundamental ideology is bad for the country. We've had bad decisions, incompetence and bad governance before. We have not seen this kind of progressive ideology in action and now that we see the details and the product, we would rather send it back, with a very loud voice. I believe this is why so many non-left people are speaking out now. Including on here. This gives the impression of the other party ( republicans ) having a large voice, but is not accurate.
I think there is a direct relationship between freedom-loving people and growing. I would not call them republicans or right-wingers. Probably closer to anarchists than either party.
The effort to legalize mj is only a side consideration, while the loss of much more significant rights dominates conservative concerns. MJ will be legal once we get some sensible people in office of some party, I'm not worried about it happening tomorrow or what party supports it ( or not ) only for political reasons.
Gay rights and abortion rights is something that the "religious" right is very concerned about, but anyone who is truly concerned about freedom does not share this philosophy. Illegal aliens have broken the law, as many people have. Is the law just ? Like mj, it makes very little difference unless it impacts my freedom or security. Social conservatism robs individuals of their rights as well as any controlling policy of the left, including taxes.
All government IS inherently evil and they ARE trying to take all our money and rights.
It is an evil we cannot live without, but we have the ability to control it. ( at the moment )
The curse of government is that it always tries to grow. There are always people who buy into the philosophy of just a little more, just a little tweaking, and eventually you have a government with power OVER the people. Even the founders knew this. This was the whole point of the constitution - limited government.
The reason that there is left-bashing is not that it's a game of words ( my party is better than yours
) , and not that the republicans don't deserve bashing either, but because their fundamental ideology is bad for the country. We've had bad decisions, incompetence and bad governance before. We have not seen this kind of progressive ideology in action and now that we see the details and the product, we would rather send it back, with a very loud voice. I believe this is why so many non-left people are speaking out now. Including on here. This gives the impression of the other party ( republicans ) having a large voice, but is not accurate.
doc111
Well-Known Member
You are correct and unfortunately they have all become interchangeable (liberal=democrat, conservative=republican). FDR was far from a social conservative and motives for prohibition aside, fact is it was a liberal ass, democratic president that saw to it that weed bacame illegal. There were many in the social elite who wanted cannabis outlawed because of how it would impact their bottom line. In truth, neither party actually wants it legalized. Yes there are some individuals within either party who favor it but they are exceptions rather than the rule.
Socialism is just a political ideology and has nothing to do with what kind of nation we are. All the Euro nations are republics and have socialist parties.This isn't a socialist nation. We are a democratic republic. We have elements of socialism already. Socialism breeds mediocrity. If you have everything handed to you then what incentive is there to work hard and better yourself? Why do so many people want a handout?
Again I ask, if socialism is so bad, why is socialist western Europe better than us at almost everything?
undertheice
Well-Known Member
as i said, our record is far from spotless. the 20/20 vision of hindsight does not diminish the value or the intent of the constitution. that some men were considered of less value by our euro-centric view of the world and that women were seen as subservient in a male dominated world are stains on our past, but it does not diminish the nobility of the cause. as our outlook has evolved, our national ethos has likewise changed. none of this alters the value of the individual, it merely increases the pool of those who are eligible for the liberties afforded the individual.