First of all I'm very happy with DWC (so far the best way in my opinion), second I notice a little anger on your tone, third "cheaped" down system? how much should I spend on it? a million dollars to be good... regardless, if you are going Hydroponics you better have D.O... and right now I'm not talking "supercharged" or "superoxygenated" I'm just talking about noise, water splashing, bubbling, pumps and etc...
*advanced techniques
- Thread starter CROPALOTAPOT
- Start date
fatman7574
New Member
No anger. I really don't care if you waste time, effort or money as it is not mine that is being wasted. It is sad though thatyou are happy with a system that is very near the bottom of the pile as far as efficiencies and about the top of the list when it comes down to problems. It will however grow pot and to many that is about all that matters. As far as your opinion on the the need for high DO. No aeroponic system or inert media hydroponic supplied with nutrients from chemical fertilizers that is properly designed needs high DO water in the reservoir or delivered to its plants in water from the reservoir. Over 99% of the plants roots oxygen needs are supplied by oxygen from the air surrounding the roots. Such systems are sucessfully run using nutrients that have almost no DO and do very, very well.
Natural levels of DO are quite adequate as the amount of O2 in air is 21% or 210,000 ppm, while the DO in water at say 68 degrees (in low salinity water) is only 8.81 ppm The only real need in non artifically high DO growing systems is to keep the reservoir water in an aerobic state.
DWC, NTF , small tube aero and bubble ponic as well as systems with water running through tubes channels and what ever that need the water to have artifically raised DO levels need this because they are cheaped down and or barely usable systems that fail without the artificially high DO levels.
It is really not a matter to debate, just a matter of fact.
Ohhh Wow, really! Good to know that... Jeez all this time and I never realised... Thx fatman for your wisdom... I'm just gonna go back into my ignorance hole and suffer alone along with my stupidity and my DWC bucket...
fatman7574
New Member
Dude, If that is how you get your butter up go at it instead of wasting your time trying to be sarcastic to cover your childishly felt wounds.
I just read some of your posts, you are a bitter person, I wonder why? Sorry "dude" but you are going against the topic of the Thread... so you are the one wasting time here not me! Yes that's how I get my butter up, whatever that means (one more thing for you to make fun!!! go ahead)...Dude, If that is how you get your butter up go at it instead of wasting your time trying to be sarcastic to cover your childishly felt wounds.
fatman7574
New Member
Not bitter just amazed by the levels of ignorance and cheapness exhibited by some.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Fatman I get the feeling you do know a thing or two about true aero, I've been following that thread too and it would be nice to see those tree results before this turns any more sour than it already has. KFB systems will grow a cola fatter than your leg and 3-4lb trees, MPB's running 4-5lb+ trees. Can we at least see what better aero trees look like first before the thread is closed?
And just for the record they are both as much if not more aero than dwc. There is no deep to it, there's more air in both it's the action of the air pump which spits water up into the air that's the reason for the big pump not to add more DO alone but to kick that water up and make it aeroponic. 1" of water in a KFB is certainly not just DWC. I know it's not aero according to purists but you see it's not limited by air in the water most of the roots are out of water.
We should all be open to new ideas and I know those high pressure aero guys aren't wasting their time and money on nothing. You can tell they know as much if not more than anyone else here reading their thread but we just haven't seen the results yet that I know of, so please in all fairness where are they?
And just for the record they are both as much if not more aero than dwc. There is no deep to it, there's more air in both it's the action of the air pump which spits water up into the air that's the reason for the big pump not to add more DO alone but to kick that water up and make it aeroponic. 1" of water in a KFB is certainly not just DWC. I know it's not aero according to purists but you see it's not limited by air in the water most of the roots are out of water.
We should all be open to new ideas and I know those high pressure aero guys aren't wasting their time and money on nothing. You can tell they know as much if not more than anyone else here reading their thread but we just haven't seen the results yet that I know of, so please in all fairness where are they?
fatman7574
New Member
Dude you are a dumb ass. Next you will be making insane claims like Oracle Buds who claim to have seeds producing plants performing as such:
Plant height: Short, FAT
THC level %: 45%
Flowering times Faster than anything ever created 33-37 days
Yield MASSIVE 1200 g/m2 - 1400 g/m2
Grows: Indoors/OutDoors/Greenhouse
Strain Genetics: Euphoria Unlimited Bud x Elephant Bud X our unreleased Ultra Fas
Feminized Seeds: 90% Female, non-feminized
Grow Difficulty: easy
Plant Odor: moderate
Smoke Flavor: skunk berry, sweet sugar cane and basil among other undertones
Your ludicrous claims are just as impossible.
I don't post photos after spending time on one manfacturing felony I decided impressing others with photos or proving things through posting photos is not worth it. I have merely expressed facts that you choose not to believe. I don't really care either. I stand by what I have wriiten and need not show or prove facts to anyone including you. Facts just are and if you can not deal with that reality we have nothing to discuss. Even piercing a sows ear and adorning it with a diamond reing does not mean it can v be made into a silk purse. It is still just a sows ear now with the cost of a diamond added to its near worthlessness. Throwing good money at crap doesn't change the fact that it is still crap.
Plant height: Short, FAT
THC level %: 45%
Flowering times Faster than anything ever created 33-37 days
Yield MASSIVE 1200 g/m2 - 1400 g/m2
Grows: Indoors/OutDoors/Greenhouse
Strain Genetics: Euphoria Unlimited Bud x Elephant Bud X our unreleased Ultra Fas
Feminized Seeds: 90% Female, non-feminized
Grow Difficulty: easy
Plant Odor: moderate
Smoke Flavor: skunk berry, sweet sugar cane and basil among other undertones
Your ludicrous claims are just as impossible.
I don't post photos after spending time on one manfacturing felony I decided impressing others with photos or proving things through posting photos is not worth it. I have merely expressed facts that you choose not to believe. I don't really care either. I stand by what I have wriiten and need not show or prove facts to anyone including you. Facts just are and if you can not deal with that reality we have nothing to discuss. Even piercing a sows ear and adorning it with a diamond reing does not mean it can v be made into a silk purse. It is still just a sows ear now with the cost of a diamond added to its near worthlessness. Throwing good money at crap doesn't change the fact that it is still crap.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Ok, how about all the other true aero guys tree grows you don't have to show us yours how about in all of the internet and the world is there one good example you know of at all that we can look at? Anything...
fatman7574
New Member
Dude, get over your self! You just are not important!
Not my job to do your research for you. Not by job or responsibility to prove anything to you. I gain nothing by proving or showing anything to you. If you are happy with what you have just stride on dude. You seem to think you already know what works best. Have fun with your choices and what little you know.
I have seen plenty of very nice photos just in the last few days. I have seen mot re than enough photos and plants to satisfy me that I am seeing reality/fact not fiction. Most of what I here from you is just ludicrous crap, not unlike the quotes from the seed add.
As the other growers has chosen not to post photos I assume they also feel no need to prove anything to you or most forum viewers.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
So to be clear you came into a thread where a dude was trying to help other people and show them things that may help and you shit on him, tell him your way is better and refuse to show us on the grounds you don't have to prove anything to anyone.
Maybe you should come in a little more helpful man. I don't need to get over myself, I don't have any superiority complex at all I fully admit I'm still just learning and nobody compared to others. And I still say I'd just like to learn your stuff but you just won't share? Ok, thanks man. If it were as easy as typing in "true aero world record indoor tree grow" in google then I could understand your unwillingness to even share a link but it's not that easy I have never seen a single example of a large true aero tree not one. You either came here to shit or help which is it? I just ask for a slice of your wisdom and a sliver of proof. It is the internet after all, anyone can claim anything and it's not an insult to ask to see something at all. I don't know why you'd be insulted it should be expected.
Maybe you should come in a little more helpful man. I don't need to get over myself, I don't have any superiority complex at all I fully admit I'm still just learning and nobody compared to others. And I still say I'd just like to learn your stuff but you just won't share? Ok, thanks man. If it were as easy as typing in "true aero world record indoor tree grow" in google then I could understand your unwillingness to even share a link but it's not that easy I have never seen a single example of a large true aero tree not one. You either came here to shit or help which is it? I just ask for a slice of your wisdom and a sliver of proof. It is the internet after all, anyone can claim anything and it's not an insult to ask to see something at all. I don't know why you'd be insulted it should be expected.
fatman7574
New Member
Let be put it in plain english. Your an *ss hole and I owe you nothing dinkus. Your being a medical marijuana user matters not to me. I am not growing for any reason really but monetary gain. I do not give to or support Norml and could care less about the leago ization of marijuana. It is a drug. I ma content with it being controlled as a dri ug. I am willing to do the time for any crime for which I am convicted. I grow beacuse I choose to grow, not for anyones need or to be an activist. I do not post to this site out of a feeling of activism.
If you want to read the thread already posted in this forum and then care to ask questions you would probably get more favorable results then trying to force me in some way to satisfy your requests. Trying to pretend that I owe you or anyone the benefits of my experience, research, work or education just because I stated a few simple facts that you do not wish to believe is not my problem fool. When you choose to actually contribute something maybe I might be willing to care what you want or need. As of now you just appear to be a lazy know it little who wants others to give you something because you are acting like an ass and therefore deserve something to shut you up. That might work with your case worker or your wife but I could care less if you throw tantrums, whine, attempt to manipulate or play games like a child. Plenty of material out there dinkus, as you are to much an *ss to be given information I recomend you use your search engine.
If you want to read the thread already posted in this forum and then care to ask questions you would probably get more favorable results then trying to force me in some way to satisfy your requests. Trying to pretend that I owe you or anyone the benefits of my experience, research, work or education just because I stated a few simple facts that you do not wish to believe is not my problem fool. When you choose to actually contribute something maybe I might be willing to care what you want or need. As of now you just appear to be a lazy know it little who wants others to give you something because you are acting like an ass and therefore deserve something to shut you up. That might work with your case worker or your wife but I could care less if you throw tantrums, whine, attempt to manipulate or play games like a child. Plenty of material out there dinkus, as you are to much an *ss to be given information I recomend you use your search engine.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
fatman7574
New Member
Hopefully that is possible. I won't hold my breath waiting for a positive out come.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
You keep coming across like I've been argiung with you this entire time and that I don't believe you, I don't know where you are getting this idea but you're way off base. I didn't go into that thread and ask for pictures and yields as proof as you suggest, that would be rude. I only thought it more appropriate here because of what you have been saying but nevermind.
I never was trying to be a dick or manipulate you or act superior or whatever else has offended you, jesus...
I never was trying to be a dick or manipulate you or act superior or whatever else has offended you, jesus...
fatman7574
New Member
A U.S. Patent application publication was recently released for an "Aeroponic Atomizer for Hydroculture." It is identical to the atomix system that sold in the UK until they sold out to a U.S. company without announcing the companies name. The inventors are listed as being from GB.
I wonder what the markets next top of the line high dollar growing system will be in this country?
I wonder what the markets next top of the line high dollar growing system will be in this country?
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Ok well any way I apologize for whatever I said that pissed you off, I do tend to say things the wrong way and I know it and I piss people off all the time and don't mean to.
Of we are ok now can I just ask on question. The reason I wanted to see a tree grow with true aero is because I have read there is a limit to the root mass you can support and I just have not seen it happen yet. Is there not such a limit or have I not been comprehending there are still issues you guys are working on in that respect?
I was sure there was some limit... I have only browsed though and I may be wrong. I have been busy following what my eyes have seen in other areas. I'm the kind of person who believes what he sees. The talk in that thread is obviously over my head you and I both know it, but as a new person to these areas of growing I try. I also support your growing for money, illegally, I've done that too and will be again but legally this time man. Knock yourself out. I'm playing the system...
Of we are ok now can I just ask on question. The reason I wanted to see a tree grow with true aero is because I have read there is a limit to the root mass you can support and I just have not seen it happen yet. Is there not such a limit or have I not been comprehending there are still issues you guys are working on in that respect?
I was sure there was some limit... I have only browsed though and I may be wrong. I have been busy following what my eyes have seen in other areas. I'm the kind of person who believes what he sees. The talk in that thread is obviously over my head you and I both know it, but as a new person to these areas of growing I try. I also support your growing for money, illegally, I've done that too and will be again but legally this time man. Knock yourself out. I'm playing the system...
fatman7574
New Member
Unfortunately as a convicted drug felon I can not obtain a permit for growing medical marijuana.
The problem with the high pressure aero and atomized aero system (atomix systems for short) is in that their roots system are too efficient for the typical nutrient formulations. Your talking a couple teaspoons of an EC 0.5 nutrient solution sprayed for 1 second every few minutes for each 10 square feet of bed space. The fluid amount is so small and the nutrient mixed so weakly that it is better to just collect it and test it and then throw it out rather that reuse it. IE drain to waste. Other than that it reduces a plants inter nodal spaces down to where a plant that grows 5 to 6 foot tall in a standard hydro system is only 30 to 36 inches tall in an atomix type system. It does not lessen the number of branches though. It just compresses everything into a shorter plant. That means to get a 6 foot tree you will need to grow an outdoor strain that is meant to be 10 to 12 foot tall at harvest in a standard hydro or outdoor system. A plant intended to be 24 inches will be 12 inches etc.
A bushy plant becomes a very dense bushy plant where inner branches die due to shading. If you like to lollipop a plant the atomix is likely going to make you very happy. The typical indica/sativa seeds now available are like short SOG material for the atomix. The short auto are dwarfs. Yields are about the same but timing is reduced. There is definitely no lack in root capability. Roots are huge hair balls that must actually be controlled so as to not become to large. There is no limitation to what the roots can support as far as height/size. You can purposely cause over watering which minimizes root hair numbers. This increases secondary roots and the plants grow taller as the inter nodal spaces get larger. With plants that are vegged severa weeks the stretch during budding is almost non existent.
The plants will gain from the increased light intensity being shorter but they have to deal with the increased shading from being denser and bushier if not bred for minimal side branching. Mildew is also a bigger issue due to increased density.
Can't really ask for a better system for SOGs of high temp and fast cycles. But that also means CO2, and dehumidification. The roots actually take up nutrients better at temps in the mid to high eighties. And the reservoir DO can be anything above anoxic (oxygen free). No matter how long you try to veg though a plant in atomix will not be as tall as the same plant in a lesser hydro system. It will put out the same yield however in a shorter plant in a quicker amount of time. I do not live in a climate that makes out door grows possible but an atomix in a greenhouse with intense sunlight would really be interesting. I am going to try 90 watts of Halide/HPS per square foot for a few 9 square foot indoor grows with CO2 however just to see what happens.
The problem with the high pressure aero and atomized aero system (atomix systems for short) is in that their roots system are too efficient for the typical nutrient formulations. Your talking a couple teaspoons of an EC 0.5 nutrient solution sprayed for 1 second every few minutes for each 10 square feet of bed space. The fluid amount is so small and the nutrient mixed so weakly that it is better to just collect it and test it and then throw it out rather that reuse it. IE drain to waste. Other than that it reduces a plants inter nodal spaces down to where a plant that grows 5 to 6 foot tall in a standard hydro system is only 30 to 36 inches tall in an atomix type system. It does not lessen the number of branches though. It just compresses everything into a shorter plant. That means to get a 6 foot tree you will need to grow an outdoor strain that is meant to be 10 to 12 foot tall at harvest in a standard hydro or outdoor system. A plant intended to be 24 inches will be 12 inches etc.
A bushy plant becomes a very dense bushy plant where inner branches die due to shading. If you like to lollipop a plant the atomix is likely going to make you very happy. The typical indica/sativa seeds now available are like short SOG material for the atomix. The short auto are dwarfs. Yields are about the same but timing is reduced. There is definitely no lack in root capability. Roots are huge hair balls that must actually be controlled so as to not become to large. There is no limitation to what the roots can support as far as height/size. You can purposely cause over watering which minimizes root hair numbers. This increases secondary roots and the plants grow taller as the inter nodal spaces get larger. With plants that are vegged severa weeks the stretch during budding is almost non existent.
The plants will gain from the increased light intensity being shorter but they have to deal with the increased shading from being denser and bushier if not bred for minimal side branching. Mildew is also a bigger issue due to increased density.
Can't really ask for a better system for SOGs of high temp and fast cycles. But that also means CO2, and dehumidification. The roots actually take up nutrients better at temps in the mid to high eighties. And the reservoir DO can be anything above anoxic (oxygen free). No matter how long you try to veg though a plant in atomix will not be as tall as the same plant in a lesser hydro system. It will put out the same yield however in a shorter plant in a quicker amount of time. I do not live in a climate that makes out door grows possible but an atomix in a greenhouse with intense sunlight would really be interesting. I am going to try 90 watts of Halide/HPS per square foot for a few 9 square foot indoor grows with CO2 however just to see what happens.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Thank you
So you are toplighting sog bushes?
Also maybe you haven't looked into the laws in all the states but I'm pretty sure that here you are only barred from growing with a drug conviction within the last TWO years. There is a limit in some places to the time span and it varies for growing or having a dispensary. I am sure you'll be barred from owning a dispensary or working there but perhaps not growing at least not in all states. I'd move if I thought I needed to but I think I'm in a good place to take advantage of the laws as they change here. I didn't have a prior conviction myself but I read the laws many times.
So you are toplighting sog bushes?
Also maybe you haven't looked into the laws in all the states but I'm pretty sure that here you are only barred from growing with a drug conviction within the last TWO years. There is a limit in some places to the time span and it varies for growing or having a dispensary. I am sure you'll be barred from owning a dispensary or working there but perhaps not growing at least not in all states. I'd move if I thought I needed to but I think I'm in a good place to take advantage of the laws as they change here. I didn't have a prior conviction myself but I read the laws many times.
fatman7574
New Member
In my state of residence a person becomes a care provider so as to grow pot for medical marijuana use. A person can only hold one permit to provide for one person. As for a record it states "has never been convicted of a felony offense under AS 11.71 or AS 11.73 or a law or ordinance of another jurisdiction with elements similar to an offense under AS 11.71 or AS 11.73 11.71 is controlled substances and 11.73 is imitation controlled substances. My conviction was a Second degree under 11.71
State law does allow 24 plants per adult member of the a house hold and 4 ounces per adult member of that house hold. My state considers that an adult resident ahs the Constitutional right to possess marijuana in his/her own home for his/her own use.
I do not lolllipop but I take about half the side branches for clones. I take extra cuttings as I refrigerate the cuttings and do not root them for 4 weeks, so my cloning sucess rate is only about 40%. My budding rooms are only half harvested/planted at a time. My lights are water cooled and multiple fixture halide and HPS. I run one 250 watt light per very 4 square feet on my small systems and one 400 watt per every 6 square feet on the larger systems.
State law does allow 24 plants per adult member of the a house hold and 4 ounces per adult member of that house hold. My state considers that an adult resident ahs the Constitutional right to possess marijuana in his/her own home for his/her own use.
I do not lolllipop but I take about half the side branches for clones. I take extra cuttings as I refrigerate the cuttings and do not root them for 4 weeks, so my cloning sucess rate is only about 40%. My budding rooms are only half harvested/planted at a time. My lights are water cooled and multiple fixture halide and HPS. I run one 250 watt light per very 4 square feet on my small systems and one 400 watt per every 6 square feet on the larger systems.