Lollipopping

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Again, as you're doing the forum parrot drill, there is a false analogy in using grams/watt. I told you where it evolved from.

Given two different gardens or the same grower's garden but at a different point in time, there will NEVER be constant conditions aka growth factors regarding the parts that add up to the whole. The following factors will vary from person to person and from garden to garden:

Temps
F.C. received, including PAR values based on a subset of dozens of factors which is driven IN PART by:
--hood design as it pertains to lumen spread, directivity, etc.
--age of lamp(s)
--manufacturer's lot shipment (lots vary)
--reflecting panels and/or additional side lighting
--type
RH
Air movement
Nutes given including NPK values and micros, frequency of application/strength
Genetics
Disease and insect pressures
Root medium
Plant vigor/health, total material mass
Garden footprint

It's all in The Balance
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Since no one is willing to step up to the challenge and post their popped plants, do you have any photos showing the lower part of your plants? What I did find in your current journal is alot of stressed out plants with nasty looking leaves...... nothing that looks healthy enough to produce much of anything, by my standards anyway.








https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/250027-bubblelicious-new-york-power-diesel-38.html

Now, it boils down to this - this suggests that you are struggling to maintain plant health, especially regarding leaf health which drives production, so, instead of admitting you don't understand the dynamics of your garden's design and/or plant culture, you fall in line with others who try to save face by using a gimmick, instead of learning what makes a plant tick, using sound botanical principles. My point being - you should have healthy foliage from top to bottom, and since it's foliage that drives production, you have no other choice than to pull your lower buds and hope you'll get something decent at upper levels of the plant (lower leaves are dropping anyway due to cultural stress).

I do wish you luck though,
UB
 
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HookedOnChronic

Well-Known Member
ben u got any plants goin right now with pics??

i agree with the no garden is the same, hell the humidity of 2 different rooms could affect yield
but using the gram/watt on your own garden is deffinately a good measurement AS LONG AS you note EVERY SINGLE change from before to after

but ya from garden to garden it is a little shotty for 100% comparability
 
mared juwan

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben grows Bubblelicious? Hmmm. I've resisted throwing my own pics into this thread until now but this is too much of a coincidence. I've grown that strain too. Unfortunately I don't take many pics of my entire garden to show my interpretation of lollipopping in full effect but here's a few Bubblelicious pics just to show what the herd can do. And for the record I don't think lollipop means to cut off 80% of your branches so your plant is the shape of a lollipop. That is retarded. I trim off only the very lowest few branches as I have described repeatedly in this thread.

Also I have to say that I begrudgingly agree with UB on the g/watt issue. Unless all those variables are kept impossibly constant grow to grow then you are measuring other things than what you intended. All the other changes will "muddy" your results.
 

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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Since no one is willing to step up to the challenge and post their popped plants, do you have any photos showing the lower part of your plants? What I did find in your current journal is alot of stressed out plants with nasty looking leaves...... nothing that looks healthy enough to produce much of anything, by my standards anyway.








https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/250027-bubblelicious-new-york-power-diesel-38.html

Now, it boils down to this - this suggests that you are struggling to maintain plant health, especially regarding leaf health which drives production, so, instead of admitting you don't understand the dynamics of your garden's design and/or plant culture, you fall in line with others who try to save face by using a gimmick, instead of learning what makes a plant tick, using sound botanical principles. My point being - you should have healthy foliage from top to bottom, and since it's foliage that drives production, you have no other choice than to pull your lower buds and hope you'll get something decent at upper levels of the plant (lower leaves are dropping anyway due to cultural stress).

I do wish you luck though,
UB
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I do have photos showing the bottom of my plants, actually - thanks for taking the time to look in my journal, I appreciate it.

Just to be clear though, anyone who's read my journal would know that I flowered this run too late (was waiting for some clones to catch up, which was a mistake - first time running in this new setup and with these new strains, and didn't expect the stretch that I got), so the headroom for the plants is ~6" from a 1K light (it's air-cooled, but there's only so much one can do to stop light-bleaching).

If you'll notice, it's only the plants directly beneath the light where the leaves are roasted, and I accepted a few weeks ago that there's nothing I could do about that - the plants outside of the "kill zone" are fine.

That being said, they're still going to produce somewhere in the neighborhood of .75-1 ounce per plant, and there's 20 plants in there right now.

I'll see if I have any pics of the lower on the computer already, and if not I'll take some for you.

EDIT: if you'll notice in the back left there's a plant or two that are actually growing above the light and wrapping themselves around the filter, just to demonstrate the height issues I've encountered by flowering too late like a moron.

Also, you think the plants on the outside look sickly to you? I realize that you cherry-picked from my photos and only took the ones that showed the "roasted" core the best (those are the shortest plants, so they've been sitting there 6" from a 1K for about a month now, sans rotation), but even with only being able to work with those, you think the plants in the background of pic #3 (next to the fan and the Sentinel sensor) don't look fairly healthy?
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
mared juwan said:
Uncle Ben grows Bubblelicious? Hmmm. I've resisted throwing my own pics into this thread until now but this is too much of a coincidence. I've grown that strain too. Unfortunately I don't take many pics of my entire garden to show my interpretation of lollipopping in full effect but here's a few Bubblelicious pics just to show what the herd can do. And for the record I don't think lollipop means to cut off 80% of your branches so your plant is the shape of a lollipop. That is retarded. I trim off only the very lowest few branches as I have described repeatedly in this thread.

Also I have to say that I begrudgingly agree with UB on the g/watt issue. Unless all those variables are kept impossibly constant grow to grow then you are measuring other things than what you intended. All the other changes will "muddy" your results.
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Mared, I'd have to disagree with you there - grams/watt is simply a proxy for how efficient a gardener you are, all things considered.

If someone gives me $10K to start a growroom and gives someone else $5K, and we both put out a pound, then he's more efficient then me - his growing style is better, he knows how to rotate better; whatever it may be, he's more efficient.

It's up to the individual to figure out why they're not as efficient as the next man with a similar setup, but the grams/watt (or grams/$ spent, grams/hours spent) are all ratios which give an idea as to the efficiency of one's garden - since electricity is (generally) the largest expenditure that most people have on an ongoing basis, that is the most popular ratio.
 
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HookedOnChronic

Well-Known Member
yea bob i am all for what your sayin but they are just gonna say it isnt all about the lights which it isnt, but u are using it as a MEASURING tool so i see your validity

basically this argument is never goin to end but if "lollipopping" is more efficient yeild wise most people are gonna have to find out for themselves by putting the same clone from the same mother under lights side by side and then practicing there idea of "lollipopping" VS a natural plant
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
mared juwan said:
Uncle Ben grows Bubblelicious? Hmmm.
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"Bubbleicious", cute name. ;)

Do you grow C99?

Just found another example of a secondary harvest while looking for another file. Nice nuggets, but you have to be skilled enough to be able to retain your LOWER leaves, even under crowded conditions with "no" light reaching this level. Remember kiddies, it's leaves that produce bud. Got it? :mrgreen:

Jack Herer:

 

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HookedOnChronic

Well-Known Member
not me and i doubt i ever will, but if my yeilds increase from switching nutes mys grams/watt has increased meaning i have made more money then i did before, meaning i should keep doin what i did with the nutes

edit- Ben: secondary harvest is a waste of time and space to MOST people, when your plants done you want to harvest and get a new cycle in, not let half the plant sit there for 2-6 more weeks, although PROPS for having green leaves if thats what u wanted to show
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bob Smith said:
Mared, I'd have to disagree with you there - grams/watt is simply a proxy for how efficient a gardener you are, all things considered.
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Geez, now it's a "proxy"? What happened to the "directionally accurate approximation" of yesterday?
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
Grams/watt is simply a directionally accurate approximation ("proxy", "indicator", "gauge", you get the point) for how efficient a gardener you are, all things considered.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
HookedOnChronic said:
edit- Ben: secondary harvest is a waste of time and space to MOST people, when your plants done you want to harvest and get a new cycle in.....
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Is that right?

Some of us get enough pot from one gardening session a year where we don't HAVE to bust our ass on a continous basis.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it......
 
VidiotRayM

VidiotRayM

Active Member
Let's see...1/4/week X 52/weeks per year=13 oz.....and I get about a lb every 2 weeks working less than an hour a day except harvest which takes a day...or two if I'm lazy...which I am......I know, I know....it'd kill a lesser man but I can handle the intense workload.

Pack, pack, Puff, puff.......ahhhhhh. Smoked it....tastes great!!
 
Mr. Homegrown

Mr. Homegrown

Well-Known Member
Katatawnic said:
My flowering tent is 23"x47" and I use 3 gallon (10.5" diameter) pots. Six mature plants is my limit (medical rules and all that jazz!), so two pots just barely fit front to back in there. Of course their height and width are up to you, and it's very easy to control these with LST. My first grow (straight LST with no topping, bit of a longer veg) was about 5"-10" tall (at most) when I started flowering, and ended up with 15" indicas and 26" sativas after the final stretch. (The sativas could have been tied again during flowering if I'd needed them shorter, but I've got 5 ft. of space between tops of pots and lights, so I don't need to worry about a 2 ft. plant.)

First photo is from that first grow, just to show their height the day I flipped them to 12/12... they were wider, but I started topping and then doing less tying right after these. Second photo is just to show plants I had in there last month, two of the three finished with their stretch... I topped the center one twice, and still it wasn't wide enough to block any light from plants next to it (even if I had my full six plant limit in there at the time). I've now got five in there, and should be adding my sixth within a week to complete the beginning of my rotation I've been working on getting going for a perpetual setup.

Please keep in mind that my lights are raised 4 feet or more above the plants, and half are switched off, while I work and take photos... so the appearance of the bottom of the plants being in shadow is appearance only. ;)
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Thanks Kat, they look good to me. You grow from clones or seeds?
 
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Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
VidiotRayM said:
Let's see...1/4/week X 52/weeks per year=13 oz.....and I get about a lb every 2 weeks working less than an hour a day except harvest which takes a day...or two if I'm lazy...which I am......I know, I know....it'd kill a lesser man but I can handle the intense workload.

Pack, pack, Puff, puff.......ahhhhhh. Smoked it....tastes great!!
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Vidiot, what kinda lighting/setup do you have?

And you really spend an hour a day on your grow?

I'm super lazy - walk in there, rotate a plant or two if necessary, check pH/TDS on my two reservoirs, and I'm outta Dodge.

Takes about 3-5 minutes on average - what else are you doing on a daily basis?

Obviously there are the days like yesterday where I cut 100 clones where I spend more time, but on an average day, it's ~5 minutes.
 
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