where do you growers here stand politically? conservative or a liberals?
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CrackerJax
New Member
It will be the Independents and blue dog Dem's who will give the Repub's their seats.
They already know they've been sold a bill of goods.
Getting one party rule shot down will be the quickest remedy. Neither party should have both houses and the white house. The dem's have slid clear off the trqack this time. We're all witnessing some real history.
I've got popcorn!
The 9/11 commission report shows that they (the Bombers) reported their passport missing after several trips to the middle east to erase travel to Iraq and afganastan During these trip they were spotted speaking with Bin Laden.
natrone23
Well-Known Member
The 911 commission report specifically states that that there was no operational link between Iraq/Sadamm and 911.
It never says anything about the Highjackers training in Iraq. plain and simple it just doesn't
Your either lying or you are mistaken.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf
CrackerJax
New Member
It was the best place to fight the war ... and we had the legal right already from Desert Storm.
And it worked ... it worked very well.
And it worked ... it worked very well.
supertiger
Well-Known Member
I'm curious, how has it worked out well for us?
CrackerJax
New Member
Remember having to go in to Desert Storm? Saddam....
Remember the Oil for Food Program? Saddam.....
Remember the WMD's on the Kurds? Saddam ....
Remember freeing 55 million ppl form that nutjob? USA .....
Remember gathering Al Queda and malcontents into a central battlefield ground (words spoken by Osama himself) and decimating them? USA....
Remember pushing Osama into a cave for 8 years? USA.....
If you don't see the positives of what we've done, ... ur not looking.
We got 8 years of keeping the terrorists quite busy OUTSIDE our borders. Change of leaders from strength to weak (Bush to Obama) has also changed the tactics of our enemies. If not for an errant fuse, that plane would have exploded on XMAS day. Expect more of the same. When you have an administration that prosecutes the perps of the USS Cole stronger than perps from WTT, you tell the enemy WHERE to strike. Want to stay out of military court? Want lawyers and rights? Attack on US soil. That's the current message..... it's almost unbelievable.
Wake up.....
Remember the Oil for Food Program? Saddam.....
Remember the WMD's on the Kurds? Saddam ....
Remember freeing 55 million ppl form that nutjob? USA .....
Remember gathering Al Queda and malcontents into a central battlefield ground (words spoken by Osama himself) and decimating them? USA....
Remember pushing Osama into a cave for 8 years? USA.....
If you don't see the positives of what we've done, ... ur not looking.
We got 8 years of keeping the terrorists quite busy OUTSIDE our borders. Change of leaders from strength to weak (Bush to Obama) has also changed the tactics of our enemies. If not for an errant fuse, that plane would have exploded on XMAS day. Expect more of the same. When you have an administration that prosecutes the perps of the USS Cole stronger than perps from WTT, you tell the enemy WHERE to strike. Want to stay out of military court? Want lawyers and rights? Attack on US soil. That's the current message..... it's almost unbelievable.
Wake up.....
supertiger
Well-Known Member
you can remove the blinders now.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Cracker explain how stirring up a hornets nest in the middle east is progress. Every step you think is forward is actually backwards. We haven't reduced the terrorist threat long term one bit only rallied more people to the cause. You just wait and see, this is going to get really ugly.
Rather than constantly fighting and killing it would be a better move to just admit the mistakes and wrongdoings we have done to all muslims, offer some olive branch, force some form of settlement on Israel that actually gives palestinians a fair deal for a change and we would get a lot further long term. I know you and I don't agree on any of this but man you are so close to taking those blinders off.
Never in the history of man has oppression worked long term, it always blows up in your face. I know you will point out the extremists who say no compromise and no israel is acceptable but that's a lame argument, extremists will be extremists but a real settlement and real progress is only possible when people are treated properly and fairly.
Progress needs to be made but that old attitude needs to go on both sides.
Rather than constantly fighting and killing it would be a better move to just admit the mistakes and wrongdoings we have done to all muslims, offer some olive branch, force some form of settlement on Israel that actually gives palestinians a fair deal for a change and we would get a lot further long term. I know you and I don't agree on any of this but man you are so close to taking those blinders off.
Never in the history of man has oppression worked long term, it always blows up in your face. I know you will point out the extremists who say no compromise and no israel is acceptable but that's a lame argument, extremists will be extremists but a real settlement and real progress is only possible when people are treated properly and fairly.
Progress needs to be made but that old attitude needs to go on both sides.
Mr.GreenJeans
Well-Known Member
Well said!!!! What's the old quote? "Anyone not a liberal at age 20 has no heart --- Anyone still a liberal at age 30 has no brain".
True liberalism dies in most people as soon as they have a child depending on them and/or their income tax rate tops 30%. All of the sudden most liberal ideas sound incredibly childish and totally out-of-touch with the REAL world (Not the bullshit world that you THOUGHT was real when you were still playing grab-ass and watching MTV in college).
As far as Republicans and Democraps go, they both suck equally bad, and effectively have the same goals ($$$ and personal power). In fact ALL politicians suck when it comes down to it.
Personally, I guess I'm a mildly deranged conservative Libertarian. I am VERY conservative fiscally and where issues like national defense are concerned, but I tend to be more of a social liberal. Basically what I believe is, You should have the right to do any damned thing you want as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights, property, or property value. i know when I was in Germany in the mid-80's it was pretty much like that and it was a wonderful place and time to be in. The U.S. was intended to be that way, but we pretty much discarded the Constitution around the 1850's and the current piece of shit in the White House just completely wipes his ass with it. Maybe he just has a lead deficiency?????? But I digress. No use bitching about the bastard. The sheeple put him in office (We can survive his administration, but we cannot survive an electorate ignorant enough to put him in power in the first place!!!). Any way, nice thread, but I'm going to bail before I go into one of my Neal Boortzesque diatribes about the true purpose of the Federal Government and what powers the Constitution actually gives them (which are few and VERY restricted if we actually follow our own laws!).
Mr.GreenJeans
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY!!!! It amazes me how many people are so totally ignorant of the mindset of our enemies. Mankind, as a whole, understands one universal language --- POWER. If you are perceived as being weak, then you become a target/victim. Period. It's been that way since the first two pre-humans got in a fight and one realized he had the ability to control the other.
I would LOVE to live in a world without wars, fighting, disease, conquests, etc. But it isn't going to happen because that goes against human nature. We are a war-like species and always have been and always will be (until we manage to exterminate ourselves eventually). If choosing to NOT be a victim and choosing NOT to negotiate with fanatics on THEIR terms makes me a bad person, then so be it. People who think we have done so much wrong to the muslim world need to study history a bit, as well as religion (and NOT at some leftist University/indoctrination center!). For each of us that is killed we should exterminate 100,000 of them. THAT is a form of communication which everyone understands --- Fuck with me and I'll exterminate you and ALL of yours, including women and children. Do it once or twice and guess what --- they won't fuck with us anymore!!!
But why bother, America has become so pussified she won't even defend herself anymore. Killed from within by political correctness run amuck. At least I know I won't live long enough to see her collapse. Some of you here won't be that fortunate, I fear.
CrackerJax
New Member
Ur first sentence is the incorrect premise, and leads you astray from there. We didn't stir any hornets nest. It was already humming along quite nicely. We were stung many times during the Clinton years, with no response of force.
We got escalation for our troubles and weakness. That's not how you fight terrorism.
You seem to believe we created Islamic terrorists ... we have not.
We were/are dealing with them however.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
We wouldn't be there if it was not for the fact that they have a very cheap to extract natural resource that we want, oil.
We are not fighting in Africa, we never invaded Ireland, hell we did not even want to get involved in WW2.
We have now been there doing what we want, making a few people very rich while the rest lived in garbage huts, so they see us as the enemy.
And looking at this terrorist event differently, why do you think that he was on a airplane that started in another country, was african (not middle eastern), and travelling during the busiest time of the year?
Couldn't it be due to the fact that being a middle eastener flying in America when the airport staff wouldn't be as stretched he would have been able to get on the plane?
We keep giving people a target to shoot for they will find it from time to time.
We are not fighting in Africa, we never invaded Ireland, hell we did not even want to get involved in WW2.
We have now been there doing what we want, making a few people very rich while the rest lived in garbage huts, so they see us as the enemy.
And looking at this terrorist event differently, why do you think that he was on a airplane that started in another country, was african (not middle eastern), and travelling during the busiest time of the year?
Couldn't it be due to the fact that being a middle eastener flying in America when the airport staff wouldn't be as stretched he would have been able to get on the plane?
I agree, but you forget that when you are at the top we are 330 million people with the rest of the 6 billion people trying to knock us off our spot. It is a lot easier to get to number 1 than it is to stay there for a reason.
We keep giving people a target to shoot for they will find it from time to time.
Mr.GreenJeans
Well-Known Member
When you are the top gunslinger, everyone else wants to see you fall --- there again, basic human nature.
BUT when the top gunslinger has a large stockpile of WMD's and the willingness to use them, then everyone backs the fuck off and/or kowtows. Our current testes-deficient (as well as intellectually deficient, I might add!) administration lacks that willingness, therefore it is reasonable to expect an escalation of terrorist activities, given the history of the situation.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Wow I am going to carry on with the western analogy! I love it!
But as the gunslinger, we don't shoot entire families and burn their houses down because their young son sucker punched us.
I am all for going to war when it is needed. But this is different, we are not at war with a country, we are at war with a few small gangs of people from several countries.
Like Iraq, I was/am very against going to war there. Regardless of what information you wanted to believe at the time, there was not a good enough reason for us to invade. But once we crossed the line, it was on and we needed to get the job done as fast and efficient as possible do what was needed and get out. Fix what we destroyed (buildings and whatnot) and let the people put back the pieces. I know that eventually other people will step up that may not be good, but then when they get aggressive to us then we slap them back down.
But instead we are trying to fight everyone that doesn't like us. Instead we should shore up our defenses here in the states and only go after the people that can actually do us real harm.
But as the gunslinger, we don't shoot entire families and burn their houses down because their young son sucker punched us.
I am all for going to war when it is needed. But this is different, we are not at war with a country, we are at war with a few small gangs of people from several countries.
Like Iraq, I was/am very against going to war there. Regardless of what information you wanted to believe at the time, there was not a good enough reason for us to invade. But once we crossed the line, it was on and we needed to get the job done as fast and efficient as possible do what was needed and get out. Fix what we destroyed (buildings and whatnot) and let the people put back the pieces. I know that eventually other people will step up that may not be good, but then when they get aggressive to us then we slap them back down.
But instead we are trying to fight everyone that doesn't like us. Instead we should shore up our defenses here in the states and only go after the people that can actually do us real harm.
CrackerJax
New Member
We are at war with any country which harbors ppl who wish to do us harm.
That's the message ... U hide them ... and one day we will show up.
Otherwise, everyone with a beef would stay out of uniform, becasue according to you, we can't be at war with them.
that's a recipe for losing, not winning.
We want to win this thing. It's not isolated and projecting weakness only brings more.
Obama hopefully is now learning this after a painful failed first year. I hope he does learn, but I have my doubts.
That's the message ... U hide them ... and one day we will show up.
Otherwise, everyone with a beef would stay out of uniform, becasue according to you, we can't be at war with them.
that's a recipe for losing, not winning.
We want to win this thing. It's not isolated and projecting weakness only brings more.
Obama hopefully is now learning this after a painful failed first year. I hope he does learn, but I have my doubts.
supertiger
Well-Known Member
May I start calling you Hannity?
CrackerJax
New Member
You can call me sir.
CrackerJax
New Member
We are not at all. Obama doesn't have that kind of fortitude. The idea that terrorism is a viable option if you don't get ur way is not acceptable. It should never be tolerated. Dealing a blow to any operation, anywhere you find it, is in our best interests and that of the world.
Seek and destroy ... you betcha.
Obama isn't a good bet, but who knows, after health care is defeated, he may refocus on some actually IMPORTANT things ... like ppl trying to blow us up on Xmas day.....
Seek and destroy ... you betcha.
Obama isn't a good bet, but who knows, after health care is defeated, he may refocus on some actually IMPORTANT things ... like ppl trying to blow us up on Xmas day.....